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Post by thecaptain15 on Mar 3, 2009 1:45:26 GMT -5
Cactus James had the insight to call HBK & Undertaker without heaps and reams of information and no access to The Torch VIP site!!!!!!!!
Hi Tom!!!!
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2009 7:23:35 GMT -5
True. I doubt he was following the "blogosphere" either. He just decided it would happen, and it did.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 3, 2009 7:33:05 GMT -5
First and foremost, this is the most thoughtful thing any board member has done for me. This totally takes me by surprise, so unexpected and more than appreciated.
Secondly, Tom is right about one thing, this has been talked about since the Rumble encounter a few years back.
However, based on comments made by JBL, not smart marks, I made this bold prediction. I can go back, find my reasoning based on the fact too many lines were about HBK's soul. It was common knowledge for me. Still, I was scoffed at. But, as of today, I am victorious, and never again will my knowledge of the business be under speculation. It hurts to be this right all the time.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2009 8:47:39 GMT -5
It doesn't matter that it was talked about years back. Too far back for it to be considered relevant. If this was talked about two years ago for THIS WM, that would be a point. But this isn't the case.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 3, 2009 9:09:46 GMT -5
No, not at all. They were the last two in the Rumble three years ago. Since then, a one on one has been talked about. Yes a Mania match predicted two years ago would be sweet, but in this business just to call a Mania match, which can change anytime, five months in advance is skill. It is an understanding very few have. I have it.
And I want it to be known, this thread will not be about me, or even HBK. This thread will be about nothing more than the beauty and theatrics, as well as an all around appreciation of the wonderful world of pro wrestling. It is very rewarding to know I have my own place on this board to show my love for this business and my overwhelming intelligence. I welcome all fans in my thread, no matter what. My thread of greatness is your thread of greatness. Feel free to discuss any aspect of wrestling as well as my above average understanding of pro wrestling.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2009 9:26:18 GMT -5
Right. So at the time you made the call, and 2 year old discussion is irrelevant.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 3, 2009 9:39:10 GMT -5
Exactly, if you misread my post.
The fact it's been rumored for years, and I picked this one for the big showdown means I got a feeling for this stuff very few have. You said yourself I deserve my due if I was right, and I am. This is my due, what's with all the hostility? I thought of all people you'd be happy I get my own shrine in this section.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2009 9:43:21 GMT -5
No hostility at all. Agreeing with you 100 percent. Anything from 2 years ago, is 100 percent out of date and not important. You made the call at a time before any setup was indicated, at a distance from the event where it is absolutely worth saying, "good call."
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 3, 2009 10:09:37 GMT -5
All apologies, I wrongfully assumed there was sarcasm involved, forgive me for being jaded. I am honestly humbled by the fact you Balls, of all people can give me credit, and I was under the impression you thought very little of me.
I'd also like to make it known this thread can serve as a Q&A, I'd be more than happy to answer any questions anyone might have regarding the current content, personal taste and even history questions. I'm a big student of the game and am more than willing to help lend some insight on any and all wrestling topics.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2009 10:17:04 GMT -5
Credit is due here. You made that call well in advance of everyone, and while we do disagree on various wrestling issues, you were certainly on top of this one.
Just don't be a Dever and make one miracle call, followed by several years of Patrick Ewing guarantees.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 3, 2009 10:34:15 GMT -5
This is one topic I'm always on my game for. I know the dillio yo.
On my mind now is the World Heavyweight Championship match at Mania. They just gave away Cena vs Edge on the main event of Raw. The non finish was a no brainer but I'm skeptical of the booking of this. As of now it's Edge defending against Show?
First off Cena needs in, that's a given. But like most of you I don't like a 3 way in this spot, and regardless, Cena and Edge didn't do much in 15 minutes, how will Big Show help it? They should have held off till Mania in my opinion, there isn't much to go on now, especially since a lot of people are familiar with the way they work. That's probably why they think it's good to add in Show, but I don't like it.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2009 10:42:21 GMT -5
I still haven't watched Raw last night, and didn't know they did that. I don't like the idea of any sort of 3 way match. Maybe some sort of gimmick will be involved like a cage or last man standing?
Anything that doesn't have Cena walking away with the belt would be good. Right now, the two big plotlines I like are the Orton/HHH feud and the Jericho angle. I don't know what happened to stir up the Jericho story yet, but I will get to it within a day or two.
It's getting crunch time to see if Rourke will be in the match yet.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 3, 2009 11:12:50 GMT -5
Well, don't hold your breath on Cena not walking out with the belt. Orton is on such a role, and I have a gut feeling Vince wants the WWE Title on the flagship show, so I expect Orton to win, although it's hard to imagine HHH not avenging his family.
But if I were putting money on it, I'd put money on Cena leaving with the belt and being the last match on the card since Mania has to end on a high note(the face winning sending everyone home happy(a formula I don't agree with)). But it isn't unlikely HHH is standing tall in the last match at Mania and Edge pulls off the "upset".
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2009 11:18:38 GMT -5
I actually think that the second scenario is better, with HHH and Edge winning. With the draft imminent, it wouldn't be hard to get the WWE title on Raw. McMahon wanting that wouldn't need to alter the better WM plan.
I think the setup really needs HHH to win, much as I like Orton--unless there will be a prolonged feud. To do that, HHH needs to come back to Raw where he really belongs anyway.
That said, I definitely won't hold my breath on an Edge win, much as I'd like to see it. The more they stack the odds against Cena, the more likely he will win.
One thing I would like to see is Team Priceless winning the gold.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 3, 2009 11:41:38 GMT -5
Me too, I want those two to be more than lackies. Either way, I would love some of the mid card belts, US, Tag Titles, Women's, whatever, to be on the line. I'd love a fatal four for the Tag, anyone really. I think Mania took a hit when they booked Punk in the ladder match, I feel the IC title should be defended to give that belt some meaning. They did the whole tourney gimmick, had Punk come up short a few times, then gave it to him along with 2 defenses real quick and now nothing. The last IC title match at Mania was RVD beating Regal in 02, that's a long time not to feature the IC title at the big event. But as for the Tag, I think a Miz and Morrison vs The Colons is more likely, although I won't be shocked if it's a dark match.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2009 13:33:13 GMT -5
I didn't even realize the IC belt hadn't been on WM in that long. That's ridiculous.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 3, 2009 14:07:49 GMT -5
More than that, it's a fucking shame. The belt used to be as important as the WWF Title. It was always a stepping stone belt, but it's been watered down last 10 years or so. It used to elevate guys, now it's just thrown on someone to give recognition instead of letting them earn it. sadly, the US Belt on Smackdown has more prestige at this point. Tom's boy Michael Hayes knows how to book a show on fridays and carved out a nice little division for the US Belt. Fucktard Brian Gerwitz is busy writing lines for Cena to bash Cole in his promo just to kiss ass to the boss. Michael Hayes knows the wrestlers, knows the fans, and knows how to book feuds, if only Raw had his direction.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2009 14:29:49 GMT -5
I also wish the IC belt would mean more. I'm trying to remember the last time the belt really had prestige. Maybe when the Rock and Austin had it.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 3, 2009 18:09:37 GMT -5
They tried doing it with Flair, even beating HHH in a cage match to defend the strap, but it goes in spurts these days. I would have to agree, off the top of my head, Austin, Rock, and HHH in the attitude era. Him and Rock had a damn good ladder match at Summerslam 98, but that's remembered more for the WWF Title match between Austin and Taker. Two classic SS matches, and the IC was just as prestigious as the WWF then too.
I miss those days, I even got the old school IC belt with white strap because of how cool that belt was when I first got into this shit. If I were a wrestler I'd be bitching Vince's ear off to put it on me so I could make that shit cool again. He'd have no choice but to listen because I would be too good to fire, I'd be drawing big bucks for Vinnie Mac. Fuck now I'm depressed. Ever since Punk won it he's defended it twice, that's fucked up. Don't you have to defend it in 30 days? Where's Gene Tunney?
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2009 19:25:38 GMT -5
Don't you mean Jack Tunney? He's dead.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 3, 2009 19:53:46 GMT -5
Shit I fucked that line up, I know he's dead I was goofing off. Fuck I'm shocked I said Gene instead of Jack, a tiny blip, a drop in the bucket.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 4, 2009 13:25:48 GMT -5
Tom you should like this, Fozzy has signed a distibution deal with Riot Entertainment based in Australia. The 4th album is due out early this Summer.
I also think Tom is one of the few people even aware they had more than one album. Congrats to Fozzy for getting no love from the US or Canada, the Aussies have to put his music out. That's something to hang your hat on.
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Post by Ms. Jericho on Mar 4, 2009 13:43:15 GMT -5
Jericho told us that!
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 4, 2009 16:19:17 GMT -5
Well he told you top secret info, that stuff just got released a few hours ago. And for the rest of us who aren't good friends with Jericho, I thought it a good idea to let everyone know his albums are being released by an Australian Promotion team.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 5, 2009 13:25:11 GMT -5
First off, this is the start of a weekly rant I will do about any topic concerning the world of wrestling. I will give opinions, insights, and my overall view on everything wrestling. I feel with almost 20 years of viewing under my belt, as well as my unmatched knowledge of the current product, this should be as rewarding for you, as it is for me. Also, feel free to ask questions, I may answer some of them if I deem them intelligent enough from week to week.
I want to start by telling Boogeyman to suck a dick. You were one of the worst thought of gimmicks ever. Whoever thought of the gimmick deserves to have his eyeballs set on fire in front of him. If it was you, in your infinite wisdom, who came up with that train wreck, one can only hope you aren't allowed near small children as anyone who has that much time to get use to eating worms is a problem. I won't be shocked to see you on ABCs How to Catch a Predator. I wish you harm in your future endeavors, as I don't want that awful gimmick disgracing the already insane world of pro wrestling. Fuck off, you clunky, one dimensional glorified jobber. Eat shit next time, choke on it, and die. This week, we start with a subject we all bitch about, and something near and dear to my above average size heart, the announcing. More specific, dick bag Michael Cole. The most obvious bash is, that asshole doesn't deserve to be play by play for the Monday broadcast. Well, let's take a look and see if he's a fit anywhere within the company.
We all remember when Cole started, interview guy, poor mans Kevin Kelly or Todd Pentingill. This may be his only time of relevance within the company as DX was running rampant in the fall and winter of 97 and he just started. A prefect match, the two pranksters and the newbie. We saw everything from wedgies, to wet willies, to Chyna getting down on all four behind Cole just to get shoved by Hunter and fly half way across the ring. And who can forget the time they threw Cole in the shower, and Hunter remarked,"Man, that shirt shrunk really fast".
But then the focus of the product shifted, and Cole was used a bit more seriously, even landing a few small time announcing gigs like Sunday Night Heat and others. And it is around this time where his overall demeanor came through. Cole has never been a fan of wrestling, it is strictly a job for him, the emotion, or lack thereof is detrimental to the overall quality of the show. His forced reactions, be it a mournful tone when someone gets beat up, or his fake excitement when "a surprise" happens. He makes in painfully obvious that he knew something was happening in advance, even recently. Someone ran in to the ring to interfere, and even though you saw his face on TV for a few moments, with the guy(exactly who slips my mind right now) standing right in the ring, Cole exclaims,"Who the hell is that"? Even though it's a person featured frequently EVERY SINGLE WEEK. Cole acts taken aback by a run in, even though minutes before he ran through the bullet points of the feud the person is in.
I don't think it's a secret there is no room for him, he doesn't fit in anywhere and for the overall integrity of the show, he should be let go.
Cole has to go, even King is slipping in his delivery, even though he's a cartoonish, male cheerleader, his performance was never bad, because he had JR next to him, not Cole dragging the entire ship down. My motto in wrestling is yes, you have to suspend belief sometimes when watching wrestling, but it is always better when you don't have to. One of the key ways the show is more believable is when the announcing isn't forced. When their excitement of calling the match can carry it. Maybe I'm spoiled and expecting too much, not everyone is J.R., but sometimes enough is enough. I would have axed Cole when Adamle got axed.
Something else I want to touch on is the McMahon family tragedy. I think with everything coming out about HHH being part of the family, and it is no longer a tounge in cheek joke for Hunter, this is a perfect place to start thinking about a swerve of some kind and there are many different ways to go about it. If I'm not mistaken, quite a few were calling for Shane to be in Legacy,and while that is very easy to do, and would make sense, I think it can go one further. Vince can be in on it, and be in Legacy. Let's break it down:
Steph is in charge of Raw, going so far as to belittling her older brother on national TV. Many wrestlers become disgruntled and are not happy with decisions she's made. Jericho makes personal pleas to Vince to return to smooth things over. On the same episode Vince returns, Orton kicks him in the head. Vince can easily blame Steph, especially if he says she knew about his "IED", and still provoked him leading to him and Shane getting kicked. From there, it can easily be Hunter, Steph and Shane, vs Legacy, backed by Vince.
I feel a swerve can really add more shelf life to this, and go slightly past Mania. Of course, a lot of that has to do with how they want the title picture to be after Mania. What show has the World Title, which one has the WWE? A lot of questions depend solely on what shows the belts end up on. However, check back next week as that will be the first issue I tackle in next weeks blog. I'm aklso going to take a look at the HBK/Taker match, and how both men will have their legacy affected by their match. And next week I will dive into the the Money in the Bank ladder match, and who I would like to see in the match, now that three spots have been filled.
Thanks for reading, and no, that's not a sock in my pocket.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 5, 2009 13:34:22 GMT -5
Not a bad column. If you can keep this up, it will be a damn good read.
Agreed on the Boogey Man, even though admittedly, I haven't watched him in a few years. Even when he started, the gimmick was so bad, I fastforwarded his matches faster than I would a Candace Michelle match. At least Candace was nice to look at. He was a bit like the Missing Link, only red.
The Cole bashing is fair too. I'm neither a fan nor a hater. He's just Michael Cole. But I am a big fan of the JR/King combo, and would like to see that fixed.
I disagree with the idea that not everyone can be JR. JR is the class of the announcing booth, but there has to be people out there that are intelligent enough with the gift of gab that JR has. But then again, maybe not. You would think a billion dollar franchise that pays top dollar for everything could get better announcers than John Sterling, Michael Kay or Suzyn Waldman. So you could be right on that too.
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 5, 2009 13:40:09 GMT -5
Good point on the JR thing, problem is the next good one hasn't come around yet, he isn't known, so it's a very scary thing when thinking of what it'll be like when JR hangs up the mic.
I think you're right that someone out there has the skill set, but no one has the passion and love for it like JR, or no one has it like JR when it comes to wrestling. Cole isn't a bad speaker by any means, he just doesn't have it when it comes to connecting and understanding the business. You would think after 10 plus years, but that's why to me JR stands alone, and it's all due to his love of the biz. No one takes the abuse he has over the years, just to keep coming back, if it's only a job to him. There may be someone as good as JR down the line, but I don't think we'll see it anytime soon.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Mar 5, 2009 14:29:50 GMT -5
OMG what have I created...forgive me Lord.....I feel like Felix when he pumped Murray up when he left Mimi and he created "Nosenstein"..........LOL
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Post by 4dogg on Mar 5, 2009 17:25:30 GMT -5
"Murray,use your coaster"
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Post by cactusjames on Mar 5, 2009 17:36:37 GMT -5
Felix can shove a 40 oz up Murray's ass, big end first. My thread will not lose it's integrity with show references from before I was born.
I deserve some credit for going this long without bringing up how much Hogan sucks, there's no need to start bringing up sitcoms from his era, too.
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