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Post by Chris on Mar 11, 2009 15:23:02 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong Lindsey. I never said Maddux stunk, as an overall characterization of his career.
He's an all time great.
I'm just saying that if you're looking to cite a mastery of control as the end-all be-all of pitching....all you need to do is look at Maddux's last two seasons to see that is not the case. Maddux was a below average pitcher with a high ERA, lots of hits given up, with low velocity.....and IMPECCABLE CONTROL....during his time in the NL West of all places...the division where offense goes to die.
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Post by Lindsey on Mar 12, 2009 0:49:36 GMT -5
He still managed a WHIP around 1.2ish for both his last seasons. Which says something, knowing how many BB he normally gives up and the less than reliable nature of those playing behind him.
Mastery of control is certainly not the kicker to what makes a pitcher's career, but plenty have made a career of it. But again, we're talking about my favorite player EVER, so I'll argue his greatness all day long =P
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Post by Chris on Mar 12, 2009 2:15:03 GMT -5
"He still managed a WHIP around 1.2ish for both his last seasons. " Sabermetrics.....blechhhh
Even so....1.2 isn't that good.
This may be nitpicky...because when it's all said and done, Maddux is in the top 10 pitchers of all time.....but, even though he's a legit 300 game winner....I feel that his last two seasons were very mediocre at best, served as nothing more than a chance to compile further numbers, and really earned roster spots on his name as opposed to his quality as a starter at the time.
Anyway...that's like saying Babe Ruth's last few HRs shouldn't count because he was fat, slow, could barely run, and couldn't field a lick....but he's BABE F'N RUTH nonetheless and Greg Maddux is still GREG F'N MADDUX!
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Post by Lindsey on Mar 12, 2009 6:55:21 GMT -5
1.2 isn't that good, but it certainly isn't that bad, considering the method to which most of his outs game, and the fact that he's 114. Greg maddux in his prime was still like an .8-something or .9-something WHIP.
and perhaps you're right, you know his last two seasons consisted of him getting jossled around to teams that thought 'hey, its great maddux! maybe we can get a few good games out of him and he'll bestow some knowledgestuffs on our other pitchers.' which I would think was kick ass if i were a pitcher.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 12, 2009 7:02:03 GMT -5
If I saw him, I would think, "there's Greg Maddux--the guy the Yanks whipped in Game 6 of the 1996 World Series, and Game 1 in the 1999 WS!"
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Post by Lindsey on Mar 12, 2009 7:10:55 GMT -5
I HATED game six of 1996 WS. That was painful to watch as a Maddux fan because it was so close and he pitched so well and you did not 'whip' him, he pitched 8 2/3 in that game! haha
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 12, 2009 7:26:52 GMT -5
LP: Maddux, Greg.
He was blasted. WOOOHOOOO!!!!
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Post by 9 on Mar 12, 2009 8:29:39 GMT -5
Joltin' Joe Girardi-o!
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Post by Lindsey on Mar 12, 2009 8:40:34 GMT -5
Ow! That hurts!
That game was ridiculous. 8 hits for both teams. The losing pitcher going to the bottom of the 9th. Tragic on so many levels.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 12, 2009 8:44:59 GMT -5
By tragic, you mean GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT!!!!
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Post by Lindsey on Mar 12, 2009 8:56:18 GMT -5
you're just trying to make me cry today!
He pitched a brilliant game. Who was NY's pitcher than night? Key? I remember him coming out in like the 6th or 7th too with a low hit count. Sigh. I think I'm a sports Jinx.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 12, 2009 9:11:29 GMT -5
Yet he outpitched Maddux in his prime. Hence the W next to his name, and the ring on his finger. Yankee baseball!!!!
If the Braves want to beat a team in NY, they have the Mets.
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Post by Lindsey on Mar 12, 2009 9:20:07 GMT -5
That was Jimmy Key's last game as a Yankee and pretty much his last game as anyone that mattered, before his arm fell off. Not a bad way to leave your mark though. He may have won the game, but Maddux still has a ring. ... and 355 wins... and 3K+ Strike outs, and 18 Gold Gloves. and about 10 years longer of a career =P
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 12, 2009 9:35:07 GMT -5
Yeah...ONE ring. Just one. Jimmy Key has TWO rings, and never lost a WS. Maddux only won ONE WS.
And Maddux may be a 1st ballot HOFer, but Jimmy Key was reasonably close to being a BORDERLINE HOFer. Jimmy Key finished second in the Cy Young voting TWICE. Greg Maddux only finished second ONE time. What a loser. Sure he won four of them, but Key finished second more often.
Take that!
But that said, head to head--Jimmy Key wins Game 6 of the 1996 WS. WOOOOHOOOO!!!!!
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Mar 12, 2009 9:36:19 GMT -5
One of my coworkers used to grouse about how Greg Maddux picked up his ex-girflriend in a bar and basically painted the walls of his Hotel Suite with her that night.
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Post by Lindsey on Mar 12, 2009 9:38:28 GMT -5
hahaha, one of my old mlb.com co-workers would always tell people that Greg Maddux liked to pee on rookies.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 12, 2009 9:40:04 GMT -5
A girl I went to college claims to have made out with David Cone. Not THAT big of a deal, unless you factor in that she was in a wheel chair.
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Post by Lindsey on Mar 12, 2009 9:42:46 GMT -5
I prefer to bed my players before they make it to the majors. Bull Durham style.
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Post by 9 on Mar 12, 2009 9:56:43 GMT -5
Gotta love the Church of Baseball!
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Post by Chris on Mar 12, 2009 10:18:20 GMT -5
This was FUNNY
Jimmy Key finished second in the Cy Young voting TWICE. Greg Maddux only finished second ONE time.
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Post by Lindsey on Mar 12, 2009 10:35:10 GMT -5
Gotta love the Church of Baseball! I grew up in that stadium. Running around playing behind the outfield wall. I even got to press the button that made the bull smoke on my birthday.
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Post by sean on Apr 22, 2009 12:31:02 GMT -5
Hello, as you can probably tell, I'm Sean, longtime associate of the Brown Family. Looking forward to engaging in some baseball talk as well as some wrestling banter. And if John, whom I "met" on the Pearl Jam Message board is here, some PJ talk also. I tried to sign up as "Brett Gardner Fan Club" but that was too many letters, then tried "Flying Hellfish" (the name of my fantasy team that Dave Brown and I ran together for 10 years, in Dan Brown's league) and that was denied, I guess because of the word Hell
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 22, 2009 12:42:04 GMT -5
Welcome to the board.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2009 13:54:18 GMT -5
I can speak highly of Sean. I decided to approach him about joining here after enjoying his baseball chatter on Facebook. He can add a lot to any group he's part of. The wrestling section can use another hand, and we are always looking for more baseball chatter. We got TV and music too! Welcome, enjoy your stay.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2009 13:55:35 GMT -5
Sean, this bring back any memories?
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Post by Lindsey on Apr 22, 2009 20:03:17 GMT -5
hooray! welcome.
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Post by sean on Apr 22, 2009 21:30:52 GMT -5
wow, that goes back aways....must be 1996, what with the Baltimore Blows shirt, and those sideburns I'm sporting
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2009 21:35:21 GMT -5
And the fact we were legally drinking beer out of bags in the street outside the Stadium. Ah, fun times.
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Post by 9 on Apr 23, 2009 8:54:31 GMT -5
Welcome aboard!
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Post by elliejay21 on Apr 24, 2009 2:30:45 GMT -5
Sean, it kinda disturbs me that you look like the bad-ass member of a boy band in that pic... wow the Brown brothers look pretty :x
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