MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 22, 2009 7:43:17 GMT -5
We have 2 trades on the board.
One expires today, one tomorrow. I think the Nettles one goes through first.
TRADE ONE: NETTLES GETS: Brandon Inge JOSE GETS: Derrek Lee Francisco Liriano TRADE TWO: SUZY GETS: Derek Jeter Jarrod Washburn JOSE GETS: Rafael Furcal Josh Beckett You have until today to protest the trade with Suzy, and tomorrow to protest the trade with Nettles.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 22, 2009 7:43:49 GMT -5
The Nettles/Jose Trade has ONE protest. 1. I'm protesting Nettles/Jose trade.
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Post by area51 on Jun 22, 2009 9:32:42 GMT -5
I am going to make it pretty easy for you guys. If we are going to allow this STUPID trade system to go on, then I will bench all my players, pay balls whatever I owe for this season and I will never play in this league again. This trade system is as DUMB as the person that protested this trade. Have some FUCKING balls (unless you are a girl - of course) and put your name on it. Give a Fucking reason, he is robbing me, I am robbing him, is not a fair trade, a real reason. If you ask me BALLS should have the FINAL say on all trades, and he should judge them fairly. Like I said, the people on the bottom of the standings have an easy way out.... Just protest this trade and you won't have to worry about relegation.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 22, 2009 9:38:14 GMT -5
The Nettles/Jose Trade has TWO protests. 1. I'm protesting Nettles/Jose trade. 2. I protest the Nettles/Jose trade
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Post by IronHorse4 on Jun 22, 2009 13:12:41 GMT -5
I didn't protest either trade. I thnk Jose gets the better of the Inge trade for several reasons, and since Nettles is in 2nd place, I don't think there is any sort of collusion afoot. I can understand the deal, as Nettles feels Lee is expendable, and Liriano is frustrating, while Inge is hitting well for a first-place team.
That said, the trade protest rules as they stand now (regardless of how bad they are) are the rules. I'm always going to put my name on a protest if I do protest. It takes a lot for me to protest, though, and I don't think there is any problem here. A perceived lopsided trade doesn't mean to should be protested, in my opinion.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 22, 2009 13:15:05 GMT -5
How would you do the protest rules differently?
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Post by IronHorse4 on Jun 22, 2009 14:31:47 GMT -5
- Protests shouldn't be anonymous. God hates a coward.
- Protests should be accompanied by a reason. These reasons can be confidential to the commissioner until there needs to be a decision made. "A bad trade," or "it makes a good team better" cannot be the reasons.
- If a majority protests a deal, then the commissioner reviews reasoning for the trade and all protests. Even if a deal is lopsided, as long as the trade partners both have good reasons, the trade shouldn't be vetoed. Only then does the commissioner have final determination.
- Tom cannot override the commissioner's decision.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 22, 2009 14:36:01 GMT -5
The problem with the majority is that it would require 7 out of 10 non trade people to protest. We currently require 5 to kill a trade. That way, a minority but not a small minority, can be heard.
It should be a very high standard to kill a trade. That's why any trade I would kill on my own, usually is killed by the right number of votes.
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Post by area51 on Jun 22, 2009 14:47:48 GMT -5
The reason why these trade makes sense for nettles is because this move will improve his catcher by 150 to 250 points for the rest of the season. As we all know he is in 2nd place and those extra 200 points could help him a lot. As for my team I will put Lee at 1b and move Cabrera from 1b to 3b. 3b is where I have Inge. Liriano is a very big gamble. Trust me I tried to trade away the 3rd catcher in points in this league to a lot of other teams but nobody else wanted to make the trade.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Jun 22, 2009 15:20:35 GMT -5
No question the trade isn't ridiculous. Certainly not protestable, rationally speaking. I just think there's no way Inge keeps this up. Of course, if I had known he would be this good to this point, I wouldn't have cut him right away.
The trade makes Nettles' team better. I believe Jose got the better end of the deal, however.
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Post by 9 on Jun 22, 2009 15:22:43 GMT -5
I can understand the deal, as Nettles feels Lee is expendable, and Liriano is frustrating, while Inge is hitting well for a first-place team. Precisely my motivation.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Jun 22, 2009 15:44:55 GMT -5
That, and Upton slides into the Util slot, and the awful Dioner Navarro gets the gas face.
No question your team improves.
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Post by 9 on Jun 22, 2009 17:37:28 GMT -5
Exactly. Lee has done a fantastic job for me, but not enough to play him over Carlos Pena. Bottom line: If Liriano bounces back, I get fucked. But it's a chance I'm willing to take.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 22, 2009 19:59:27 GMT -5
The trade process is under review. It will always be 5 protests quashes a trade. But I really think that the time is now to get rid of the cloak of secrecy. As Justin pointed out, you should not only give your reasons, but show yourself.
For the record I have protested neither of these trades, cause quite frankly, I dont see them making a ripple and I could give a damn in regards to these.
More to come on what we will expect from protests coming forth. I seem to remember last year requiring a reason?? Am I imagining this?
Ill have more to say on the reasons we need to get rid of the anonymous protests, but I need to get downstairs before Raw starts.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 22, 2009 22:27:42 GMT -5
We always had a policy that you can protest for any reason. That is the way it works in most leagues. The key is that most people, in theory don't protest for the sake of protesting.
And even if you have a jerk who does that on spite, the odds of getting FIVE jerks are slim.
Our rule has basically said 4 protests brings it to the commissioner, and 5 protests kills it easily. I think in the entire run of the league, I actually had to make a call once, because pretty much any trade I would kill gets 5 protests very fast.
The problem with losing anonymity is that it invites spite protests.
I can say that my standard is VERY high to overturn the will of two people in the league, as it should be.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 22, 2009 23:19:06 GMT -5
How would making people own up to a protest invite spite protests? If anything, if people had to show face, it may keep them from doing so, as the rest of the league will be privvy to what the fuck is going on between people.
Beauty of a league like this is that if I feel like changing a rule, I will just do it. I will probably announce in the next day or so that if you dont attach your name to a protest going forth, your protest is not counted.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 23, 2009 5:08:05 GMT -5
Very simple.
Tom and Justin make a trade.
I protest it.
A few weeks later, Jose and I make a trade.
Tom protests because I protested his prior trade.
Simple spite.
As for you changing rules that have gone on for 7 years, if the league is going to let you do that in the middle of a season, then by all means, go for it.
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Jun 23, 2009 8:33:19 GMT -5
i find it fishy that ive been complaining about the anonomous nature of blocking trades to deaf ears for 5 years. jose cries once and we are looking to alter rules midseason. unbeleivable.
real men, like justin and myself do nothing anonomously. you have to be a real dope to get me to reject a trade. and when i do, i will let it known why i am rejecting it.
for years me and milton have worked on trades. how many of those got nixxed for no reason at all? a handful. for no good reason except people sweat me because im the man. change rules midseason and ill pull a jose and bench my team the rest of the season and you can kiss my ass goodbye. horseshit that everyone wants to wake up now. why? because milton is finally out of the league? keep sweating me league. keep sweating me.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 23, 2009 16:36:54 GMT -5
I have also never rejected a trade anonymously, so I know you are not talking about me.
Hey, the rule is not so important to me that I NEED to change it now. It obviously does not effect me one way or another, as I am not making trades. I just thought this is something the top players around here would want. Excuse me for wanting to do something by demand. This is by no means a Tom issue. And again, I never keep my name secret when I piss on trades, in fact, I explain myself fully. So fuck off.
Fine, Ill table it till next offseason. Another thing that will stop is trading over the weekend, when people are not around, and sneaking them in.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 23, 2009 17:03:36 GMT -5
THAT is why I thought you would protest on spite. You actually talked about doing that last year. I know weekend trades are a pet peeve of yours.
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Post by elliejay21 on Jun 23, 2009 19:35:24 GMT -5
FWIW, I was one of the protests to the Nettles trade. Sorry about the response delay, but I cannot access this board or the Yahoo page from work & I didn't get to my computer last night. I've never been one to hide behind annonymity and I'm not about to start now. After reading Balls' email, my gut reaction was that the trade was quite unbalanced in Jose's favor, but I couldn't look it over in detail. After looking at both teams and reading this thread, I shall rescind my protest.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 24, 2009 6:19:59 GMT -5
In the future, lets not protest trades until we KNOW for sure that what we believe is the case, ok? To protest on "gut reaction" is absolutely absurd, and a bigger case for supplying a reason with your protest than any we could dream up.
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Post by 9 on Jun 24, 2009 6:31:57 GMT -5
Rules question: I traded two players for one, so I will have an empty roster spot. I assume I can use my normal weekly move (which I can't make until Saturday) to fill that spot. I don't get an extra move because of the trade, right?
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 24, 2009 6:41:28 GMT -5
In 2002, you would have been allowed to pick someone up and fill out your roster for free. I'm not sure, but I think in 2009, you have to wait and use your weekly move.
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Post by area51 on Jun 24, 2009 8:13:46 GMT -5
I am not sure if it could be done, but the easiest way to deal with people sneaking in trades on the weekend is to make the waiting period longer, let's say 4 days. Or should we prohibit people from proposing trades on fri or sat or sun? What if you propose it on wed and the other team doesn't accept until fri or sat?
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 24, 2009 8:16:39 GMT -5
That's a pretty long waiting period--especially for a league with weekly roster moves
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Post by 9 on Jun 24, 2009 9:33:32 GMT -5
In 2002, you would have been allowed to pick someone up and fill out your roster for free. I'm not sure, but I think in 2009, you have to wait and use your weekly move. That's what I figured. No problem. Makes sense, actually.
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