Bret Hart returns

[cactusjames]

Maybe he wouldn't have taken the belt to Nitro, but if they were worried he was during a fucking ratings war, if he wasn't going to do right by the company, the company was going to do right by the company.

[MSBNYY]

Don't get me wrong, of course HBK's take would be equally slanted. You have to take it all with a grain of salt. I judge the incident based on my own observations.

There is no excuse not to job on demand. None. I don't care who you are. It's a storyline. The title is a prop. But it means enough that if the boss says job, you job. Once Bret officially was going to WCW, McMahon had every right to protect the belt.

I think James' take is right. He was leaving, and his last match happened to fall in Canada. No one would have thought less of him if he dropped the belt. But I do think his failure to drop the belt willingly not only set up the screwjob, but made it obvious why McMahon did what he did.

I WISH Vince would have let Owen have the main belt. He would have had a great run as champ, but that wasn't the card. Vince's belt, Vince's call.

Ironically, though I'm sure Shawn popped a woodie at being able to screw over Bret like that, ultimately, he is blameless too. Hell, Vince could have decided to put the belt around Howard Finkel if he wanted to do so. His choice.

For what it's worth, I don't think Bret would have taken the belt to Nitro, but I do understand Vince's desire to secure the belt FIRST, and I can see Bret's reluctance as a red flag.

The title was not Bret's. He didn't WIN anything. It's not a real sport. It was a storyline. Bret blurred the line, and Vince did what he had to do.

[$heriff Tom]

Balls, you are wrong again. His last match did NOT fall in Canada. He still had shows to go, including the next nights Raw.

James, are you ignoring the part where he had no problem losing to Michaels? Why do you keep bringing up all these other names??? He was fully prepared to lose to Michaels.

And Balls, stop with your semantic bullcrap. You are the lawyer here. What part of Bret was in the 2nd year of a TWENTY YEAR CONTRACT that Vince told him he was NOT going to honor are you missing here? Why did Bret need to do anything at Vinces whim?? Vince was going back on a contract.

Meanwhile you are worrying about a Nitro episode.

Can you comment on the breached contract please?

[cactusjames]

So if he had no problem, why did they do the screwjob? If he were an intelligent person, and if he knew thing one about wrestling fans, he would know dropping the title to Shawn on Canadian soil, American soil, Japanese soil, Mexican soil, if they were on a boat in the middle of the ocean in international waters it wouldn't make a difference. Fans don't care where someone loses the belt or to who, and if they do they get over it. Why is HBK trying to save his ass in his book, but Bret can't be lying after the fact in his? If he were willing to job to Michaels it would have happened before Survivor Series, they were feuding since Summerslam, I was there in Jersey. HBK was the special ref, cost Taker the title, feuded with Taker. So he had September and October to drop the belt, but didn't. Why? Cause Taker and HBK were in their own feud. So who else was in the company to drop the belt to? If it was going to happen it would have. Bret hated Michaels, hated the direction the business was going in, and wanted to save his own ass and hand his belt to his little brother. Bottom fucking line. And sorry, no wrestler dictates who gets the belt after them.

Keep citing things Bret said, I'm telling you the logic from the business standpoint. But if you think Bret wouldn't be a pain in the ass about dropping the belt just to turn around and lie and say he was being a company guy you're insane.

And I agree with Balls, at the time HBK was happy to pull the trigger on it. But that doesn't mean Bret was doing the right thing. He was pulling big time B.S. politics, and at the time to put faith in that guy would have been a bad business decision. Business comes first, the business survived cause Vince and Shawn did what was right when Bret wouldn't. He suffered and started his downfall. If he had done right by Vince maybe it would have been different. But enough of he was willing to job to HBK, it's malarky. It doesn't matter what soil you lose on, the whole world still saw on PPV anyway, everyone would have known he lost clean. He wanted to do things his way. If he wants to pick the way he loses and they come up with a compromise cause of creative control, that's fine. But to choose where and to who you lose to is fucking crazy talk.

[MSBNYY]

All contracts can be modified if both sides agree. To Bret's credit, when Vince came to him, he agreed to get out of the contract. Bret didn't have to do that.

[$heriff Tom]

James, email me at [e-mail]

I have some stuff I can send you regarding this that you obviously have no clue about.

[cactusjames]

You're right I haven't read anything Bret Hart put out to save his own name. I'm a loyal WWE guy, if I were a wrestler I'd never want to wrestle anywhere else. And if the owner of the company is worried some dumb fucking employee might do something to hurt the company, something needs to be done so he doesn't embarrass the company. You're saying Bret was in the right cause he was going to get embarrassed, he's a wrestler. He's not in the position to say who becomes champ after him. And doing a job in your home country is not the end of the world. No one else in the company could hold the belt but Shawn and since he beat Taker in the first Hell in a Cell he was number one contender. That was October, August and September they were getting not just DX started and rolling, but the reformation of the Hart Foundation. The timing of it just so happen to fall while they were doing a PPV in Canada.

no matter what I read it won't change my mind, Bret wouldn't do business that night. That isn't how the business works. For someone as old school as you I'm surprised you back the prima donna crap he pulled.

Maybe Savio Vega should have been champ, or Kama, or one of the guys in DOA. Then we'd have no problems right?

[$heriff Tom]

What i have to send is NOT Bret Harts take on the situation.

You need to seek out coverage from people who have no axes to grind on this.

And, again, Hart said he would have dropped to HBK any other time but that night. Would it have been that hard for Vince to work with him on that?

[cactusjames]

Yeah, it is that hard. It's a PPV, they did a lot of buildup with DX and the Hart Foundation(BTW Hart dynasty will be on hand tonight). It would have been a weak ending to one of the best real feuds of all time to end on a Raw in Michigan. And again, why does HBK and others have an axe to grind but Bret doesn't? He's the one who lost his career, last I checked HBK is having one of the best runs of his career. I think if he said he'd lose to HBK at any point it would have happened. I wouldn't be shocked if Vince wanted him to lose it at the ppv.

And why is his demands alright? Creative control does not mean making company decisions of where to drop the belt and to who. Creative control means over storylines and character direction. Bret wanted to be made to look like a Canadian hero. For what? Cause he didn't want to lose on his home soil? That's such baby shit it's almost laughable. Why is it so important to not lose in your home country. If Shawn did that and said I never want to lose in the US people would've called for his head. This is nonsense.

[MSBNYY]

If Bruno could lose in the Garden, anyone can lose anywhere.

[sean]

I'm reading the Bret Hart book, and I have to say, I think it's the best wrestler autobiography I've read. Foley's books were great, but I didn't know much about him until he hit the WWF. But Bret Hart, I've followed since he was going at it every week against my favorites, The British Bulldogs. I'm about halfway thru. In a lot of books, the author is the best ever, everyone else sucked, and everyone else fucked things up. hart is brutally honest, detailing hsi affairs, his drug use (coke and roids) It's lurid, but not gossipy. Amazing and sad what happened to one of my all time faves, The Dynamite Kid. He also pulls no punches when it comes to McMahon, calling him a flat out liar, and saying many of the guys, especially Andre, had no respect for him. I got it from my library, which makes it even better, not shelling out $20 for it

[$heriff Tom]

I have to say, I am thus far dissapointed in the way this angle has been going. As much a Hart fan as I am, I admit he is off his game. The crowd reactions have been lukewarm, but I blame a lot of that on the way this is playing out. Hart has been punked over and over, and he is coming across as a sucker, there to be duped by Vince. Im sure in the end we'll get our "big reveal" where the broken leg is a gag, and Vince will get to make that kooky scared face where he gulps once he finds out.

There has also been way too much talking in the ring. But thats par for the course for WWE anyhow. One thing Ill say is there is no way Bret will stick around after Mania, its just not there, so I dont see an angle with the Hart Dynasty.

So, there it is. I am still looking forward to the spectacle of Vince and Bret in the ring, and Im happy to see Bret in any capacity, but this angle as it were has been bungled.

[thecaptain15]

Vince will get to make that kooky scared face where he gulps once he finds out.



That is always priceless and not to shabby of a payoff.......LOL...as long it is not the top highlight of Wrestlemania...

[IronHorse4]

Just thumbing through the last handful of posts on this thread, so sorry if my reply isn't timely. But I've always thought the Montreal Screwjob was a work. Never ceases to amaze me that even the most savvy wrestling smart marks sometimes forget that wrestling is fake.

Everybody won with the Screwjob. Even Bret Hart.

[MSBNYY]

Not necessarily.

If by a work, would that also include the whole leaving the WWF in the first place thing? History says McMahon couldn't afford Hart anymore, and he negotiated with WCW.

Had Hart not gone to WCW, he probably wouldn't have suffered his stroke, and maybe even Owen doesn't have his fatal fall.

It would also imply that McMahon actually foresaw the reaction to the screwjob, which led to the Mr. McMahon character, which led to the whole turnaround for the WWF.

They wouldn't have needed Bret to help WCW nor would they have wanted that if this was a work. Certainly in the short term, that's what happened.

I don't know if I would say Bret won with the screwjob.

[$heriff Tom]

Justin, it was not a work. There was initial skepticism, but this story has long been washed out as the truth. Trust me, with the reams of stuff out there on this one, as real as it gets.

[$heriff Tom]

So, not only is Bret Hart slotted to "wrestle" at Summerslam, he is set to appear at Madison Square Garden on a Smackdown themed live show on September 25th, teaming with The Hart Dynasty against 3 as of now unnamed members of Nexus.

Im not sure what is going on with Hart. If the guy cant take any sort of bump or even bop to the head, he should not be in there. Im not down with the corny spot of tagging in just to throw a couple of punches and tag back out.

[grover]

That's what's going to happen. He'll throw a few kicks in the corner, then tag out.