Post by MSBNYY on Mar 5, 2010 13:00:13 GMT -5
The following is the second debate I engaged in with a fraternity brother of mine named Pete who happens to be a Mets fan. He is the stereotype of the dumb Mets fan. I would post the first debate, where he got his ass kicked so badly he deleted half the posts, but I don't have the posts he deleted.
I guess years of arguing with people that actually have some knowledge helps with the ability to research facts from baseball-reference in an instant. Not saying Yankee fans are the only ones with brains, because there are guys like Mac out there, but hopefully this will entertain:
The status update was this link:
sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Fork-it-over-Jeter-Yankees-must-repay-10K-eac?urn=mlb,225554
He wrote as his status update:
hahahaha FAIL
MSB: HAHAHAHA! They are champions.
Pete: champions of shitty accounting
Random Girl Yankees fan: Hey, guess what! Doesn't change the fact that they won and the Mets watched it all go down.
Pete: i dont understand why yak fans feel the need to trash the mets when defending their team. its not like the yankees have better fans and that's why they win. 30 plus odd years ago the yaks were in shambles and an owner bought the team that was willing to cheat and buy his way to the top, mainly because he was unable to buy the Cleveland Indians. the mets have an incompetent ownership group.
MSB: The Yankees don't outplay the Mets because they have better fans. They outplay the Mets because they are better in every capacity. Their fans ARE better though. Much smarter, obviously, more knowledgeable about baseball, and clearly better looking. The Yankees are Peyton and Eli Manning. The Mets are that Manning that doesn't play football.
Pete: the yankees are slack jawed yokels??
MSB: If they are, they are slack jawed yokels that just won another World Series.
Phillies' Fan whose wife is another fraternity brother: glad the trainers, who help keep Jeter and Co. playing, got their fair share, as for the other player who got shafted, it must suck knowing you're the only one who got the short end of the deal.
Random Guy: "Their fans are better though. Much smarter, obviously, more knowledgeable about baseball, and clearly better looking."
even if you discount the millions of yankee fan frontrunners who can only name arod, "jeeda" and mariano as players on the team, you're still wrong about the baseball knowlege comparison.
As for good looks, well, who wants to bet me this guy isn't a yankee fan....
www.twodifferentshoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/hairy_beach_dude1.jpg
MSB: I think you'll be finding that guy at Shitty Field. And you can't compare Yankee fan baseball knowledge to Met fan baseball knowledge. Met fans actually think that Mariano spit on the baseball. If Met fans had any brains, they'd be Yankee fans.
[note--Pete is probably the only person still livid over the spitting incident. I was hoping like a puppet, he would post the video of that so I could rip on him on that topic. He obliged]
Pete: mcfly?!?! mcfly?!?! is anybody in there?? mariano did spit on the ball, there was visual evidence to prove it. you sound like dennis rodman when he was confronted by carmen electra. the question of whether or not he gained any deliberate, discernable advantage is the one up for debate.
Pete: also, no real met fan would be caught dead wearing a tuxedo to a baseball game. game. set. match
[this was an attempt to reference the bleacher creature presence at the 2008 ASG in tuxes--which I participated]
Pete: copy of said video www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX5BbD3b0KY&feature=related
MSB: That's because no real Met fan can afford to rent or buy a tuxedo. They're a second rate organization that attracts second rate fans. No real Met fan has the sense of humor to even think of doing anything funny. They would rather play with Mr. Met.
Good work on the Rivera video, which proves my point perfectly. First, the camera cuts away when the spit is still in the frame, which is not possible if the spit hit the ball, and the spit is off to the side, which is why no one even thought enough to mention it.
Your video is more of a joke than the NY Mets, if that's possible.
Pete: its not funny, its just lame. once again, only you and dennis rodman could possibly think hes not spittin on the ball. here's another angle. he even looks around first to check. i'm not arguing it gave him an advantage, but that he did it is indisputable by any sane person, www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV6gY2t3s5w
MSB: It wasn't lame, which is why it made the news, national television, and the NY papers. And only a complete idiot would think that he WAS spitting on the ball. Again, if he was spitting on the ball, and this was a smoking gun, how come no one bothered to do anything? Oh wait, MLB cleared him within a day. NO SPIT HIT THE BALL. The video cuts away while the spit is in mid air for crying out loud. Do you not see that? Maybe it was a vast right wing conspiracy, Hillary.
[Note: To his credit, Pete is a Republican so he is more intelligent in politics than baseball]
Pete: great point, no sporting league has ever tried to sweep anything under the rug. MLB has an impeccable record of bringing every cheating offender to justice!
MSB: They didn't sweep anything under the rug when Joe Niekro cheated. Nor did they do so when Kenny Rogers cheated in the plaoyffs. Only a crybaby sore loser would actually believe that Mariano would actually spit on the ball, based on less than half a second of footage that cuts away when the spit in the air. Next you'll say there's a conspiracy to keep the Mets losing for 24 straight years. Or a conspiracy to have the Mets blow a 7 game lead to the Phillies in about a week in 2007.
Pete: youre going to use an example from 50 years ago? then use an example that proves my point? nothing happened to kenny rogers. see, you calling me a crybaby sore loser is an ad hominem argument. you have no argument so you reduce yourself to name calling. i never called mariano a cheater, but the evidence is indisputable. notice how the hundreds of yak fan friends i have, not one has come to your defense.
Pete: and no yankee fan has a right to criticize the Mets collapse. ever. 10 years from now no one will remember the details of the mets collaps. 200 years from now theyll remember 2004's alcs
MSB: 50 years ago? Try 1987. Kenny Rogers was 2006. I'm not name calling. It's a fact. You are a crybaby sore loser. You also have no evidence supporting your argument. He did not spit on the ball. The video is less than half a second long, and cuts away when the spit is in mid air.
As for 2004, you have to MAKE the playoffs to collapse during them. There's a reason the 2004 collapse will be remembered. It involved a team that doesn't do that. For the Mets, it's routine.
At least the Yankees have a championship and 4 playoff appearances since then.
Pete: only a fool would argue in the face of indisputable video evidence. and how am i crying about anything?
MSB: Exactly Pete, only a fool would argue in the face of indisputable video evidence, and in this case, the evidence does not show Mariano spitting on the ball.
Phillies Fan: mets suck. Yankees will lose to the Redsux in the AL East
MSB: I would love to make a similar comeback about the Phillies not winning their division, but given that they play in such a weak division, and there are no other major league teams in their division, they might as well start printing playoff tickets.
Phillies Fan: I agree
Pete: the phillies dont play in a weak division, they are just significantly stronger than their top three opponents, all of who should get to at least 80 wins
MSB: They play not only in a weak division, they play in a weak league. The Phillies are the only team in the NL that could possibly make the playoffs in the AL, assuming they didn't play in the AL East. The unbalanced schedule makes it that much dumber.
Phillies Fan: Who is strong in the division the braves may have just over 82 wins
Pete: that is a ridiculously dumb statement. you can be a yak homer on the mariano tape all you want, but i will not accept such outright stupidity calling the phillies the "only" team that could make the playoffs in the AL. The NL West is a phenomonenal division, and the Central has a very good Cardinal team. The cardinals wouldnt be favored to win the Al central? really? The two best teams in baseball might be in the AL East, but after that there is no clear third team that makes the AL a stronger overall league.
and to clarify, the fourth best team in the NL East went into Fenway and pwned Boston in Fenway last year
Pete: look at vegas' over under lines. look at pecota. the Fish, Braves and Mets should all compete for 85-88 wins and a wildcard
Pete: and in terms of divisions, ok the al east is strongest because of what they have at the top (to be fair, balt and toronto are abysmal). then its between the nl west and nl east for 2 and 3. then maybe, "maybe the AL West followed by the Centrals.
MSB: What's ridiculously dumb is you are still trying to argue that Mariano spit on a ball when the video shows no such thing. That argument is as weak as the team you support, which again is why you are the only person actually arguing it. I know you think it was a vast right wing conspiracy, but you would think that the Angels might have complained, and of course, even THEY said it was ridiculous. All it shows is your blind, irrational jealousy of a team that is superior to yours.
And the NL West is NOT a phenomenal division, which is why the Rockies and Dodgers both got their asses handed to them by the Phillies. The only reason some of these teams won 90 games is because they are in a weaker league.
The 2009 Angels were better than any NL team. ... See More
Holy cow--you're actually using a 3 game series as a sample of your weak defense about the NL? Time to school you again, with a much larger and therefore more relevant sample.
Notice I don't use the World Series because anyone can have a good week. Yes, the AL has won 14 or so All Star Games in a row, but that's not important either. The true test is the large sample that comes when the AL teams routinely spank their NL counterparts every year. Only FOUR AL teams played under .500 ball last year against the NL. The AL teams, including the bad ones, went 140-112 (.556) against NL teams in 2009. They were 149-103 the year before (.591).
There's a reason the AL teams are dominating the NL teams in interleague play.
The NL is garbage, a AAAA league that is a joke.
MSB: You are arguing that the NL East should be even thought of as the second toughest division? Are you kidding? They have one good team. That's it. That's one more than the other two NL divisions. The Blue Jays have to play the Yankees and Red Sox 36 times. They were 26-46 against AL East teams. Yes, the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays are better, but against non AL East teams, they played .583 ball. They would have been a contender in the NL.
Pete: i'm sorry, i forgot to tell you that for arguing things as stupid as mariano not spitting on the ball and your statements about the phillies, you have received a one month ban from posting on my wall.
MSB: Checkmate.
I guess years of arguing with people that actually have some knowledge helps with the ability to research facts from baseball-reference in an instant. Not saying Yankee fans are the only ones with brains, because there are guys like Mac out there, but hopefully this will entertain:
The status update was this link:
sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Fork-it-over-Jeter-Yankees-must-repay-10K-eac?urn=mlb,225554
He wrote as his status update:
hahahaha FAIL
MSB: HAHAHAHA! They are champions.
Pete: champions of shitty accounting
Random Girl Yankees fan: Hey, guess what! Doesn't change the fact that they won and the Mets watched it all go down.
Pete: i dont understand why yak fans feel the need to trash the mets when defending their team. its not like the yankees have better fans and that's why they win. 30 plus odd years ago the yaks were in shambles and an owner bought the team that was willing to cheat and buy his way to the top, mainly because he was unable to buy the Cleveland Indians. the mets have an incompetent ownership group.
MSB: The Yankees don't outplay the Mets because they have better fans. They outplay the Mets because they are better in every capacity. Their fans ARE better though. Much smarter, obviously, more knowledgeable about baseball, and clearly better looking. The Yankees are Peyton and Eli Manning. The Mets are that Manning that doesn't play football.
Pete: the yankees are slack jawed yokels??
MSB: If they are, they are slack jawed yokels that just won another World Series.
Phillies' Fan whose wife is another fraternity brother: glad the trainers, who help keep Jeter and Co. playing, got their fair share, as for the other player who got shafted, it must suck knowing you're the only one who got the short end of the deal.
Random Guy: "Their fans are better though. Much smarter, obviously, more knowledgeable about baseball, and clearly better looking."
even if you discount the millions of yankee fan frontrunners who can only name arod, "jeeda" and mariano as players on the team, you're still wrong about the baseball knowlege comparison.
As for good looks, well, who wants to bet me this guy isn't a yankee fan....
www.twodifferentshoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/hairy_beach_dude1.jpg
MSB: I think you'll be finding that guy at Shitty Field. And you can't compare Yankee fan baseball knowledge to Met fan baseball knowledge. Met fans actually think that Mariano spit on the baseball. If Met fans had any brains, they'd be Yankee fans.
[note--Pete is probably the only person still livid over the spitting incident. I was hoping like a puppet, he would post the video of that so I could rip on him on that topic. He obliged]
Pete: mcfly?!?! mcfly?!?! is anybody in there?? mariano did spit on the ball, there was visual evidence to prove it. you sound like dennis rodman when he was confronted by carmen electra. the question of whether or not he gained any deliberate, discernable advantage is the one up for debate.
Pete: also, no real met fan would be caught dead wearing a tuxedo to a baseball game. game. set. match
[this was an attempt to reference the bleacher creature presence at the 2008 ASG in tuxes--which I participated]
Pete: copy of said video www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX5BbD3b0KY&feature=related
MSB: That's because no real Met fan can afford to rent or buy a tuxedo. They're a second rate organization that attracts second rate fans. No real Met fan has the sense of humor to even think of doing anything funny. They would rather play with Mr. Met.
Good work on the Rivera video, which proves my point perfectly. First, the camera cuts away when the spit is still in the frame, which is not possible if the spit hit the ball, and the spit is off to the side, which is why no one even thought enough to mention it.
Your video is more of a joke than the NY Mets, if that's possible.
Pete: its not funny, its just lame. once again, only you and dennis rodman could possibly think hes not spittin on the ball. here's another angle. he even looks around first to check. i'm not arguing it gave him an advantage, but that he did it is indisputable by any sane person, www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV6gY2t3s5w
MSB: It wasn't lame, which is why it made the news, national television, and the NY papers. And only a complete idiot would think that he WAS spitting on the ball. Again, if he was spitting on the ball, and this was a smoking gun, how come no one bothered to do anything? Oh wait, MLB cleared him within a day. NO SPIT HIT THE BALL. The video cuts away while the spit is in mid air for crying out loud. Do you not see that? Maybe it was a vast right wing conspiracy, Hillary.
[Note: To his credit, Pete is a Republican so he is more intelligent in politics than baseball]
Pete: great point, no sporting league has ever tried to sweep anything under the rug. MLB has an impeccable record of bringing every cheating offender to justice!
MSB: They didn't sweep anything under the rug when Joe Niekro cheated. Nor did they do so when Kenny Rogers cheated in the plaoyffs. Only a crybaby sore loser would actually believe that Mariano would actually spit on the ball, based on less than half a second of footage that cuts away when the spit in the air. Next you'll say there's a conspiracy to keep the Mets losing for 24 straight years. Or a conspiracy to have the Mets blow a 7 game lead to the Phillies in about a week in 2007.
Pete: youre going to use an example from 50 years ago? then use an example that proves my point? nothing happened to kenny rogers. see, you calling me a crybaby sore loser is an ad hominem argument. you have no argument so you reduce yourself to name calling. i never called mariano a cheater, but the evidence is indisputable. notice how the hundreds of yak fan friends i have, not one has come to your defense.
Pete: and no yankee fan has a right to criticize the Mets collapse. ever. 10 years from now no one will remember the details of the mets collaps. 200 years from now theyll remember 2004's alcs
MSB: 50 years ago? Try 1987. Kenny Rogers was 2006. I'm not name calling. It's a fact. You are a crybaby sore loser. You also have no evidence supporting your argument. He did not spit on the ball. The video is less than half a second long, and cuts away when the spit is in mid air.
As for 2004, you have to MAKE the playoffs to collapse during them. There's a reason the 2004 collapse will be remembered. It involved a team that doesn't do that. For the Mets, it's routine.
At least the Yankees have a championship and 4 playoff appearances since then.
Pete: only a fool would argue in the face of indisputable video evidence. and how am i crying about anything?
MSB: Exactly Pete, only a fool would argue in the face of indisputable video evidence, and in this case, the evidence does not show Mariano spitting on the ball.
Phillies Fan: mets suck. Yankees will lose to the Redsux in the AL East
MSB: I would love to make a similar comeback about the Phillies not winning their division, but given that they play in such a weak division, and there are no other major league teams in their division, they might as well start printing playoff tickets.
Phillies Fan: I agree
Pete: the phillies dont play in a weak division, they are just significantly stronger than their top three opponents, all of who should get to at least 80 wins
MSB: They play not only in a weak division, they play in a weak league. The Phillies are the only team in the NL that could possibly make the playoffs in the AL, assuming they didn't play in the AL East. The unbalanced schedule makes it that much dumber.
Phillies Fan: Who is strong in the division the braves may have just over 82 wins
Pete: that is a ridiculously dumb statement. you can be a yak homer on the mariano tape all you want, but i will not accept such outright stupidity calling the phillies the "only" team that could make the playoffs in the AL. The NL West is a phenomonenal division, and the Central has a very good Cardinal team. The cardinals wouldnt be favored to win the Al central? really? The two best teams in baseball might be in the AL East, but after that there is no clear third team that makes the AL a stronger overall league.
and to clarify, the fourth best team in the NL East went into Fenway and pwned Boston in Fenway last year
Pete: look at vegas' over under lines. look at pecota. the Fish, Braves and Mets should all compete for 85-88 wins and a wildcard
Pete: and in terms of divisions, ok the al east is strongest because of what they have at the top (to be fair, balt and toronto are abysmal). then its between the nl west and nl east for 2 and 3. then maybe, "maybe the AL West followed by the Centrals.
MSB: What's ridiculously dumb is you are still trying to argue that Mariano spit on a ball when the video shows no such thing. That argument is as weak as the team you support, which again is why you are the only person actually arguing it. I know you think it was a vast right wing conspiracy, but you would think that the Angels might have complained, and of course, even THEY said it was ridiculous. All it shows is your blind, irrational jealousy of a team that is superior to yours.
And the NL West is NOT a phenomenal division, which is why the Rockies and Dodgers both got their asses handed to them by the Phillies. The only reason some of these teams won 90 games is because they are in a weaker league.
The 2009 Angels were better than any NL team. ... See More
Holy cow--you're actually using a 3 game series as a sample of your weak defense about the NL? Time to school you again, with a much larger and therefore more relevant sample.
Notice I don't use the World Series because anyone can have a good week. Yes, the AL has won 14 or so All Star Games in a row, but that's not important either. The true test is the large sample that comes when the AL teams routinely spank their NL counterparts every year. Only FOUR AL teams played under .500 ball last year against the NL. The AL teams, including the bad ones, went 140-112 (.556) against NL teams in 2009. They were 149-103 the year before (.591).
There's a reason the AL teams are dominating the NL teams in interleague play.
The NL is garbage, a AAAA league that is a joke.
MSB: You are arguing that the NL East should be even thought of as the second toughest division? Are you kidding? They have one good team. That's it. That's one more than the other two NL divisions. The Blue Jays have to play the Yankees and Red Sox 36 times. They were 26-46 against AL East teams. Yes, the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays are better, but against non AL East teams, they played .583 ball. They would have been a contender in the NL.
Pete: i'm sorry, i forgot to tell you that for arguing things as stupid as mariano not spitting on the ball and your statements about the phillies, you have received a one month ban from posting on my wall.
MSB: Checkmate.
