Next Superman Movie

[MSBNYY]

www.superherohype.com/news/supermannews.php?id=7609

At least they are going to pull a Hulk and reboot it. They want to pattern it after the Batman movie. They're talking about making it darker in tone, though I'm not sure what they mean by exploring an evil side of Superman. He doesn't really have one.

If they mean to force him into situations where he has to get more violent, I'm all for it. Piss him off, but don't taint what he is.

[Chris]

Oh man, they'd better not fuck with Superman, and try to make it The Dark Knight in red and blue tights.

That's NOT the Superman story! Please don't let them fuck this up.

[MSBNYY]

I know. It will be hard to fuck up more than they did last time, but it's definitely possible. As bad as Superman Returns was, it was not nearly as bad as some of the previous ideas for the character.

Nicholas Cage as Superman? Holy crap!

The reboot is the right idea. They did it with Hulk, and it was the right move. Now they don't have to worry about the baggage from Superman Returns. No bastard son. No Superwimp.

They can recast with no problem.

But they need good writers.

[grover]

And make it less gay.

There are ways to make it darker without making it Dark Knight. It's a huge challenge because making Batman darker is easy, and making Superman darker will be a challenge.

Also, they might mean darker as in more serious. Superman Returns was just as campy as the Richard Donner films of the 70's. They may present Superman in a more serious tone while still capturing all it's qualities.

[cactusjames]

DC fucking sucks. With the exception of the two Batman movies, Marvel kicks the shit out them.

[MSBNYY]

In the movies, you're right. Marvel has made plenty of clunkers too, but overall, ignoring the first 2 Superman movies, which are far enough in the past to no longer be relevant, all DC has ever done right was Batman Begins and Dark Knight. That could be a blessing and a curse, fi they don't understand why those movies worked.

Marvel has its share of clunkers--Hulk, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Spidey 3, all sucked. Spidey 1 & 2, Ironman kicked ass. The new Hulk was not great, but it was solid.

Trying to think what I left out.

The most successful comic movies, and Marvel has done this better than DC, stuck with the source material. You can't make a successful Superman movie if you try to turn Superman into Batman. Different characters.

[Chris]

Daredevil sucked ass.

[MSBNYY]

Yes it did. I heard Elektra did as well, but Marvel does have the right idea, and after Spidey, their movies have been better.

I like that they are building up one big universe. And I like that DC is starting to do the same. But they NEED to make a good Superman movie.

[Chris]

Conan The Barbarian was a GREAT comic book movie. The sequel blew, but the sequel wasn't really a comic book movie...it was just some Hollywood-written plot starring a comic book character.

[grover]

Conan isn't really a comic book movie. Those were based on the old Howard novels.

I see them making Lex Luthor an evil prick who puts Superman in a situation he will be stuck in as Batman was stuck in the scene at the end where Joker rigged the Ferries with explosives.

Oh, and you forgot the first two X-men movies.

[Chris]

Conan was a Marvel comic since the 70s, which was based on "short stories" in a periodic magazine in the 30s.....which more or less adheres to the same beginnings as Superman's appearances is "Action Comics."

Conan is very much a comic book character, imho.....and one of the greatest ones ever.....I was an avid reader/subscriber to Conan in the late 70s/early 80s.

[MSBNYY]

I did forget the first 2 X-Men movies which were both very good.

They have to be very careful with Superman. He's not Batman. I don't know if they will have Luthor in the movie. I'd like to see someone like Darkseid or Mongul.

[grover]

Yeah, but still he wasn't really put to comics until much later, but I suppose that's just splitting hairs. They just got the Conan comics going again, and 6 volumes have been released (vol 0-5) and they are fantastic. One writer who wrote an introduction to them, who is also a huge Conan fan, said this is the best Conan in any form, movie, comic, ect.

As for Superman, Balls, you're expecting things from the cartoon again. If they are revamping it, they are putting in Superman's greatest villain, which is Luthor. The majority of people out there have no clue who Darkseid or Mongul is. Dude, Mongul? Come on.

Luthor will be in the first movie and chances are they will explore his side where he thinks the world doesn't need someone like Superman, who's a bit too godlike for his tastes and doesn't trust him because he's an alien. They will tackle things like that, and Superman trying to realize his potential, figure out how to have a secret identity, the responsibility of his power, ect.

[MSBNYY]

The cartoon was very good. So yes, they should be taking the positive elements from the cartoon and translating it to the big screen. You think people knew who Mongul or Darkseid were before they were introduced on the cartoon?

You think people knew who General Zod was before Superman: The Movie? Before the current Batman movies, who heard of Poison Ivy or Two Face other than hardcore comics readers?

Luthor alone won't be enough. You need a villain that can challenge Superman physically. Luthor could be in the movie, much like he was a separate villain with Zod, but alone won't be enough.

Darkseid is an ambitious villain. I'll admit it would probably be better to introduce him slowly (like they did in the cartoon), but given the need to have a great movie, you need a great villain. Mongul could probably be done in one movie.

The thing is, they need to make Superman be Superman, not Superwimp. This is a guy who has an uncanny ability to lead, knows right from wrong, acts on it, and inspires people. This is not a guy who whines about things, is unsure of himself, and is worst of all, a father of a bastard child. I don't think this is a guy who would need to realize his potential. He knows it. Christopher Reeve's version of Superman met Jor-El, learned his history, and came out of the Fortress CONFIDENT.

[grover]

Save that for the sequel. Luthor and Darkseid will be too many cooks in the kitchen. Remember, it works in the cartoon because it's a presented in a cartoon form for kids. In a movie they want to aim at a PG-13 crowd and up they will have to have more layers to a character than some big guy from another planet who will kill Superman.

Plus, think of the CGI costs.

Plus Mongul isn't even a Superman villain. Luthor, Braniac, Darkseid, Zod. Luthor will get the nod, trust me. Luthor is his ultimate villain. Superman/Luthor is Batman/Joker, X-men/Magneto, ect.

[Chris]

What would be cool, is if they could eventually get to a point where Ballzaro was worked into a movie....and in a serious way....not the lame comedic way he was portrayed in the Justice League cartoons.

Superman is probably the most intriguing superhero out there, for me....for all of the weird parallels people have drawn between he and Jesus, to all of the intricacies of his background as a Kryptonian....but the one thing that always bothered me was the lack of a level playing field for Superman's foes....and for that reason the concept of Ballzaro was infinitely interesting to me.

[MSBNYY]

In the cartoon, they built up Darkseid brilliantly. Did you ever see how they brought in Darkseid and the New Gods in the cartoon?

First you had an episode with intergang being supplied with weapons from Darkseid. Superman stopped that, but you really didn't see Darkseid until the very end, for like 2 seconds.

Next you had Kalibak attack Metropolis and engage Superman in a knockdown drag out brawl. Darkseid made a brief appearance, and hit Superman with his eyebeams, knocking him down badly without even moving.

And THEN, full invasion which led to what could only be considered a surprise ending. Hell of a storyline, and I have yet to see any form of Superman story that was any better on live action or cartoon.

Bizarro would be an interesting character in a movie, but he's not really evil--he's just stupid. A bad clone.

I agree Superman/Luthor is Batman/Joker.

I think Luthor should be involved, but the question is how they do it. The movies haven't shown businessman Luthor yet. They blew that big time last time.

Luthor alone won't be enough. Superman must have an opponent that no one else could physically challenge.

[Chris]

The bottom line though, is that they are not going to introduce characters to a movie geared toward the mainstream, that only avid comic readers would know about.

Frankly, I was shocked to hell that Spiderman 3 had Sandman in it....as he was NOT one of Spidey's more high-profile foes.

[MSBNYY]

Once a character is in a movie, it becomes PART of the mainstream. In fact, there's been talk of the next Batman villain being someone never used in live action before.

Comic heroes have a big rogues gallery for a reason. The live action Batman movies introduced Two Face, Bane, Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, & Ras-Al-Guhl to audiences.

There are SO many unused Superman villains. Some of the best and most powerful ones have never been touched on the big screen. They need that.

If they go with Brainiac, I wonder how they would do that. The cartoon changed his history to make him a supercomputer from Krypton that chose to use its resources to download and save itself rather than confirm Jor-El's findings. It was actually kind of a cool idea, since it created a more personal connection to Superman.

[Chris]

Rhino and the electric guy (Electro???) were my favorite Spidey foes....I wish they'd pop up in the movie.

Also the Alligator man...what was his name?

[MSBNYY]

I think you're thinking of Scorpion. I wouldn't be surprised to see them at some point.

[Chris]

No, I was thinking of Lizard...aka Dr. Connors...who somehow turned into a lizard and lived in a swamp.

I remember him from the 70s Spiderman cartoon.

[MSBNYY]

Ok. Yeah. Actually, I believe the character was in at least one of these Spidey movies, though obviously not as the Lizard himself.

[grover]

Balls, you're off base. IF they do use a big powerful villain, they are going with Darkseid. They won't.

They are not going to inflate the budget after Superman Returns, and they are going to explore things not touched upon in the other movies. Luthor would be more than enough as a main villain, but if they are going with more than one he will not have anyone on his level.

Also, the cartoon is G rated. As good as you think that story is, it's still G rated. Stop expecting the cartoon. Hell, you're the only person I know that had something slightly negative to say about Heath Ledger as Joker, and that was because you expected the cartoon Joker. Get that out of your head and you'll enjoy it more.

[Chris]

That character was not in a Spidey movie. The scientist from Spidey 2 is a different "scientist gone bad" than Lizard.

[MSBNYY]

www.imdb.com/title/tt0316654/

Dylan Baker played Dr. Curt Connors in both Spider-man 2 and 3. He didn't go bad. It was kind of like Billy Dee Williams playing Harvey Dent in the 1989 Batman movie and not becoming Two Face.

[Chris]

Ahhh, I see. Well, the fact that he's in the movies may be an opening for him to appear later.

[MSBNYY]

Seems set up for that.