The Art/Pshycology of Pro Wrestling

[cactusjames]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and instead of toying with it, I figured I'd share and get a varying range of opinions. Last night, I was watching some of the Mr. Perfect matches from the new DVD, and his match with HBK at Summerslam 93 ended in a countout and Shawn retaining with help from Diesel. My cousin, who is 3 years younger than me, isn't big into wrestling, but still used to watch and has a basic feel for it. Yet, he was yelling at the TV calling Michaels a pussy, even moreso after bragging about staying IC champ after winning.

My point is, I find it funny someone can still get that upset at the product, the TV, and the actual wrestler. But why? Why for people who, even when they know it's scripted, get so upset? My thinking is psychology, from how the genre has changed to where a vertical suplex was a big deal, to doing shooting star press. From how, DQs and countouts was a great way to prolong a feud and get heat on a guy/get someone over, to now where everyone wants a clean finish in every match.

So my question is, has it been the change in the sport, the change in people, or is it both? Why are so many of the old classic ways of doing things dying out? Cause I know the sction from when I started watching in the early 90's is way different from when most of you started watching 60 years, I mean 20 years ago, and even from the 90's on has changed, but why are so many of the old ways dying out when simple psychology of outside nterference and a countout win would generate so much heat even to this day? It can't be all the marks and online sites can it?

[$heriff Tom]

To touch on it in random fashion.

As to cheering, getting upset, thats getting lost in the moment. The release of things. Reacting to wrestling is the same thing as crying at a sad movie (not that any of us do THAT) - you can still ride the emotion.

As to the way the product has changed, and the old-ways not working anymore. Its todays 100 MPH society. Everything has to move fast. People have no patience. Thats why these 60 minute draws we love would be booed out of the building today, for the most part. When wrestlers people do not recognize come out, it takes 10 seconds after the opening bell for fans to chant "boring."

The cynicism of the internet has not helped anything. I actually stopped listening to all TNA audios (except for the post-PPV ones) cause NO ONE can find ONE good thing to say about the product. And to me, thats dumb. Hating for the sake of hating, pretty much. I myself enjoy TNA, I find it a snappy couple of hours of TV a week. Fans today are too jaded. They forgot how much fun this can be.

It may also be overkill on the product. While back then there were a heap of more promotions on TV, not each one was writing 2-12 hours of TV per week, and offering daily web content. So creativity is diluted.

There are no more Dick Murdoch types, no more regional Tommy "Wildfire" Rich types. Everyone is cookie - cutter, at least near the top of the card. Of course there are exceptions, but you know what i am getting at. I dont watch a lot of ROH, but its just a bunch of white guys with the same haircuts.

But they sure wrestle good.

[cactusjames]

True, but look at the Jericho/Michaels feud. The Great American Bash match was a no contest or whatever. If it wasn't at the Crapiseum where everyone sits on their hands and never chants, people would have been pissed. Yet, how much good did it do in prolonging the feud?

People bitch about how you don't see many new stars getting made, they've been changing that lately, but a great way to do that is send some people home pissed off. This way they come back next time to see the heel get his ass handed to him. I guess a lot has to do with monthly ppvs and weekly shows, as well as the territories being like non existent, and I know I complain a bit about the cheap finishes TNA has on almost every match of every card, but it still makes you watch, it pisses you off where you wanna see it played out to the end. Why not go with the cheap finish and build heat, why sacrifice that just to have a clean finish and have no one bitch? Let the rubes get mad, and talk shit about the product, we all know they're going back next time the show comes to town.

[Chris]

It's very simple James.

It's the same reason you get emotionally invested in TV show, movies. They are scripted. The outcome is predetermined. But it doesn't prevent us from becoming emotionally vested in the story and even rooting/hoping for certain outcomes.

I have gone through two separate, significant periods in my life when I was enthralled with professional wrestling.

Once in the early 80s with WWF characters such as Piper, Snuka, Hogan, Big John Stud, and I was a great fan of whatever the "minor" league wrestling was being shown on WTBS which featured The Road Warriors, Dusty Rhodes, Ivan and Nikita Koloff, Tully Blanchard, Magnum T.A., etc.

Then again in the mid 90s with WCW's NWO, Goldberg, Sting, etc..

Currently I'm NOT in one of those periods and haven't been for a long time.

I have always known wrestling is scripted. At no point, at no age did I think this was anywhere close to reality. BUT, I was enthralled, emotionally invested, and often happy or displeased with outcomes in the same way I'd be happy or displeased with the outcome of a baseball game.

The real problem with me, and Tom and I have touched on this, is when the scripts deviate from the obvious athletic part of wrestling and concentrate on the theatrics....like when side story love triangles occur. I always hated wrestlers like Hillbilly Jim or Konan or those wacky New Zealanders (can't remember their names). You know...the guys that come to the ring in overalls, gang attire, army uniforms....STREET CLOTHES. To me, when scripting wrestling shows, even though we all know it's fake, they ought to do everything they can to AT LEAST keep up the facade that this is a legitimate sporting event, and not just a soap opera/street fight/performance artist show. Even the Road Warriors (my ALL TIME FAVORITES, along with Bruiser Brody) who were very theatrical with the make up and all that, STILL showed up in the ring is arguably athletic gear...in other words, they didn't wrestle in farmer's clothing, they wrestled in wrestling gear, thus the appearance of a legit athletic contest.

And nowadays that's more prevalent than EVER....the shows are ALL about the side stories, the theatrics.

[cactusjames]

I can't say I disagree but my thing is more with the actual matches than the storylines. There was a decision made to pass on doing countouts and DQs for either clean finishes or non clean finishes, majority of the time. TNA does a lot of cop out finishes, WWE does a lot of clean ones. And if someone is getting emotionally invested in a match from 15 years ago, then that logic, that psychology is far better than the ones applied now.

But you did touch on something I was trying to get across, years ago, matches were book to help and further the storyline, be it a good story or not. Now, due to egos and the smart marks, it's simply done for political reasons only, not to enhance the feud or story. Yes politics and these other things are part of the reason for the shift in psychology, so my thing is why not go back to that? If it's pissing people off, fuck it, do it. I agree, the more real it's portrayed to be, the better. Which is why I'm a huge Michaels fan, he knows we know it's fake, so he tries to blur the lines, or make it as personal as possible, like his wife getting punched in the face, he's a Jesus Freak and yet still helped come up with, and take part of that angle. Fake, but still a cool move on all their parts. But yet, as good an angle as this is/was, theirs still no excuse for the reasoning to book matches the way they do.

[seaniel]

Wow, what an awesome debate...

Brief history on me, wrestling-wise: I'm 26 and have watched any wrestling on television since I was about 8, and currently watch most wrestling on TV (not biased towards any product, it's more just when I'm available to watch it), and attend JAPW (an indepedent) consistently for 5 years and counting.

While I love Tom's argument that this "ADHD society" we're living in and the new "want it now generation" has been the primary reason for the shift, I think we would be remiss to have this discussion not address the impact that WCW and the Monday Night Wars of the early 90s had on televised wrestling. No generation shift can alter the face of wrestling THAT drastically in just one decade. What did it was when Bischoff and the guys at WCW started changing titles and having matches that have been epic (Flair/Sting/Hogan/Savage) replayed on a random Monday night TV show for free. They may not have been as good as they once were, but it was worth watching rather than "the other channel" that would slowly draw out a feud over months of time, simply to have to pay $50 to see the payoff. The late 90s were what led us into the rapid society that we're living in today, so at that point you figure people were already thinking faster paced, and that was just what WCW offered. Why watch some all-American young guy slowly try to take out the knees of a giant, only to win by DQ when the giant guy gets frustrated and pummels him with a chair (my best example of a typical feud getting built up!) when you can watch Hogan and Savage face off for the title, with the title quite possibly changing hands? WCW upped the ante and all WWF could do to keep up was do the same. WWF was forced to "lower" themselves, if you will, and alter their booking and programming to keep up with the rapid pace that WCW was putting out. Sure now you can look back and argue that WCW was never truly a threat to WWF, but lest we forget that a few of those Monday Night battles were won by WCW, so it would be unfair to say that Vince didn't have at least an eye on what they were doing over there. I think there was some good that came out of it (i.e. high-flyers; cruiserweight matches that excelled in ECW and WCW that have now given stars like Rey Mysterio Jr. a chance to be a star in the WWE), but if you're going to ask what caused wrestling to stop being about slowly building a feud and making you hate a wrestler in the process and start being about everything happening in one second and removing some emotion, I think WCW and the Monday Night Wars have to be considered as one of the reasons to blame.

[sancho231]

I think Wrestling going from a slow mat based product to the High Flying, fast paced type deal is due to the ADD socitey we live in. guys kept trying to out do the other guys, same goes for the "stiff" style or hardcore styles. and the ratings boosted money was made.In the past 15 years or sothings have changed way too fast, with a that TV time to fill what were they gonna do? you buld any program slowly any more cause you got 12 PPVs to sell each year.As to why the so many guys lack the Pshycological skills to make any one care about the 9 450 splashs they do,I blame ECW.I loved ECW ten years ago but man, those matches did not age too well.Most ECW matchs were just spot to spot.like fuckin dancin'. that why i thouht RVD vs Jerry Lynn was over rated.

[cactusjames]

I thought some of the RVD vs Jerry Lynn matches were great, but others were just trying to duplicate that. But while I love some of those matches, I haven't watched one of those matches in years, yet every month I'll watch Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels Iron Man match.I agree with all of what everyones said, but is it still an excuse to the way things are now? The art of the manager being dead, countout/DQ endings to piss the face fans off being non existent.

If a match from 15 years ago is pissing anyone off, and that person knows it's scripted but is still caught in that moment, that way works. Why can't they go back to it, at least a little bit once in a while?

[Chris]

I think the Pay Per Views have gone a LONG way in destroying the quality of free wrestling television.

It is EXACTLY as someone just mentioned in this thread. All of the free weekly shows/matches are nothing but a teaser for the $50 PPVs. It's like watching 2 hours worth of movie trailers.

In the old days, we got to see relevant championship WWF matches FREE, on USA.

In the old days, we got to see relevant championship NWA matches FREE, on WTBS.

Nowadays IF you get a championship match for free, they act like they're doing you a favor.

[$heriff Tom]

Cho, you dont watch wrestling enough. There are five title matches a week. Chris Jericho is defending his World Title TONIGHT actually, on USA Network.

The belts mean little, all the dream-matches have been rushed out for ratings, thats the main problem.

[Chris]

I've seen enough to know that even the free title matches usually end controversially, unconvincingly, resolve nothing, and still turn out to be nothing but a teaser for the PPVs....the PPVs are the only places you get to see definitive, conclusive ends to high-profile matches and/or resolutions to feuds, storylines, etc..

I know this because, in the 90s, in my long WCW run, I was the monthly sucker for those PPVs.

Unless wrestling's reliance on PPV $$$ has drastically changed since then, I'm pretty sure it's the same ole.

[$heriff Tom]

Cho, in a lot of respects you are out of your element. You're talking to a guy who watches about 10 hours of new wrestling shows a week. And you are talking about "the 90s."

You're wrong. In fact, a criticism of the PPVs is why pay for what you are seeing on TV FOR FREE.

[cactusjames]

Yeah seriously, you're talking about revenue and television shows, I'm on a whole other level. The workings of a match and the psychology in booking it. Weekly shows should be a reason to screw the fan over not a reason they aren't doing it anymore. And if you wanna go further than the 90's, was there ever a doubt Hogan was going to lose a match in the 80's? No. So that has little to do with my complaint.

And Tom I agree, why is Rey vs Kane the last match? Ratings I know but still, why?I'm not upset at the ending, or the match itself, but the placement. Rey Mysterio and HBK mean more than the world title. That's what i got out if it. Even though we all knew Jericho would retain, there was no element of uncertainty(besides the attempts to leave the cage)in the outcome. Where I think if it had been the last match, where the show fades to black after the ending, it would have had more people guessing and had each near fall and close call mean more.The booking is more lazy than it is not fresh.