MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 10, 2008 10:24:09 GMT -5
Considering the show is credited with launching MMA to the national spotlight, it's hardly crap.
We've already proven that the claim that it does not produce stars is poppycock.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 10, 2008 10:26:05 GMT -5
We've already proven that the claim that it does not produce stars is poppycock. Oh, really? ? How so? Come on, expert. Who from the show has gone on to do anything? In fact, name some who still have a job! And dont start naming coaches, who were coaches cause they were ALREADY stars. One reason the show is considered a major LOSER is that it has not developed ANYONE, and Dana White himself admits that!
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 10, 2008 11:45:07 GMT -5
If you would look back, again, Forrest Griffin beat possibly the number one guy in the world in his weight class, and has a title shot coming up. Matt Serra won the welterweight title. Keith Jardine has a win over Chuck Liddell. Quite a few of them have gone on to have successful careers, including Matt Hamill (who looks like POS Dan and is deaf), Josh Koschek, Diego Sanchez, Michael Bisping, Stephan Bonnar & Kenny Florian. Not all of them become great ones, but to say the show has produced no one is simply not true.
I agree that coaches don't count, but former contestants that became coaches certainly do.
And please find a quote that has Dana White saying that no one has succeeded from the show.
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Post by grover on Jun 10, 2008 13:23:47 GMT -5
Sorry, Balls is right on this one. The show got a lot more people into the sport and showed that it is a legit sport with intense training and legit athletes. The show has run it's course and will be replaced with a live show in a year or two. Still, it's drawn a LOT more fans than in the previous years without it.
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Post by cactusjames on Jun 11, 2008 6:53:33 GMT -5
Not to mention Bisping won his last fight on saturday, and no just win, fucking destroyed Jason Day in the first. He's probably in line for a middleweight title shot in the near future. I'd love to see a live UFC show weekly, but I still don't mind watching now and then. This year is good with Griffin and Rampage(my favorite MMA fighter), and their fight, plus the undercrad, should be really good July 5th.
But I still think it's a dumb move to pull the Ultimate Fighter, it helps not only expose the sport, but the guys. Most of the time, I know a lot of the undercard guys cause they were on the show, otherwise I'd only know main guys.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 11, 2008 7:49:11 GMT -5
The funny part is that since I have got most of my education in MMA from that show, I mostly know the UNDERCARD guys, and not so much the main guys.
I actually think that's not such a bad thing as an intro to the sport because you're getting in on these careers at the bottom rung, and it's not unlike following a guy in the minors and seeing him shine as a major leaguer.
It does sound that if they do pull Ultimate Fighter, they will replace it with something UFC related.
I would be interested in seeing a website that tracks ratings of Ultimate Fighter v. other UFC related shows.
For those that like straight fighting, there is plenty of it. My9 has a weekly show on Saturdays that features past fights.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 11, 2008 8:48:22 GMT -5
Come on, guys, give me a break. First off, the reason they are revamping the Ultimate Fighter is that the format is "tired" and the ratings are lower than ever. While the ratings are still on the high end of "MMA shows" what are the other MMA shows? Its also a high-profile network.
I watched Bodog for a couple of seasons . They had fights, complete with 5-10 previews on the guys in the fight. That worked fine...I learned enough listening to the guys talk, seeing them train, seeing them in those vignettes. I dont need to see them LIVING IN A HOUSE.
Oh, and do you think UFC wants a fanbase who knows more about the UNDERCARD guys than the main guys?? They want you ordering the PPVs. People are not buying PPVs to see the undercard guys. A lot of the undercard guys flamed out.
Most people - me included, watch MMA to see the, well, MMA. Not to see guys having drama sharing a house. Give me a break.
And argue all you want, but none of you can deny that its fact they are revamping the show to make it a FIGHTING show. And the fact you need to watch guys live in a house to "learn the fighters" makes me sick.
That is what the previews are for. If you can not watch a fight unless you know what the guy likes to put in his protien drink....wow, you should not be watching MMA.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 11, 2008 9:05:20 GMT -5
Considering the boom UFC has enjoyed since Ultimate Fighter came out, I would think they have no issue with building the fan base that begins with the undercard guys. Obviously, the main eventers wouldn't be as thrilled, but one counter is that they get main eventers to coach and corner, which gets them the spotlight too.
I welcome any format changes. It's not a sign of weakness that a show adapts and changes with time. It's a sign of moving forward.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 11, 2008 9:29:33 GMT -5
Considering the boom UFC has enjoyed since Ultimate Fighter came out, I would think they have no issue with building the fan base that begins with the undercard guys
You have GOT to be kidding. You are going to credit Ultimate Fighter with the MMA boom?? It never got ratings that turned the world on fire. Its a niche show for a niche product.
And again, since they are dumping the format and switching it to a FIGHTING show, there goes your speech about "no issue with building the fan base that begins with the undercard guys."
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 11, 2008 9:55:58 GMT -5
Of course Ultimate Fighter gets its share of credit for the boom. Not all of it obviously, but you bet it does.
A few months back, CNBC ran a documentary on MMA and specifically UFC. Good stuff. It gave a history of UFC from the Gracies to today. The highs and the lows.
And the Ultimate Fighter was credited for bringing it into the mainstream.
Obviously, the show didn't outrate American Idol. No one is saying that. But it did bring UFC into the homes of a significant number of people that didn't see it before.
And business has boomed since that show premiered.
Also, I just did a little research and I don't see any major changes from UFC 8, which WILL exist.
Frank Mir (former heavyweight champ and the guy that beat Brock Lesnar), will be one of the coaches, and interim heavyweight champ Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira will be the other coach.
I don't see any major format changes other than they will be returning to 2 weight classes instead of one.
If I were to make a change, I would make the main event of the Ultimate Finale be the coaches' fight.
I understand why they put that one on PPV, but given all the promotion of the season, I really wish they would give that one away. Every once in awhile, they do give away a big card on Spike, and they did have the BJ Penn/Jenns Pulver fight on free TV.
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Post by grover on Jun 12, 2008 12:55:00 GMT -5
It did help a bit to gain more fans. It's ran it's course and it will change, and that is a smart move because eventually it will get stale to even guys like myself who have been watching MMA before the nWo was even created. I still love it but they are running out of interesting coaches to put in and it's going to get repetitive. I actually can't wait for that live show to start.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 13, 2008 11:48:42 GMT -5
It's definitely running its course--unless they sufficiently change it up to keep it fresh. There is going to be another one in September. The good thing is that it's not exactly a tough show to bring back should they want to, so even if they do run a live show, they can always bring it back if they feel the live show isn't working.
I think there are some decent coaching possibilities left. GSP never did it. Anderson Silva never did it. Roger Huerta never did it.
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Post by grover on Jun 13, 2008 12:09:07 GMT -5
They have to want to do it though.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 13, 2008 12:10:55 GMT -5
Of course. I wonder how many times they've been turned down. Given the amount of power Dana White has, I wonder how voluntary coaching really is. I'm sure there are a bunch of great fighters I'm missing too who could be coaches.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 7, 2008 20:02:47 GMT -5
So anyone watch Griffin v. Rampage? What a great fight.
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Post by cactusjames on Jul 16, 2008 20:08:01 GMT -5
As a Rampage fan, I didn't like it too much, but yeah, great fucking fight, and I'd say expect more, but now I dunno. Jusr read Rampge was arrested for hit and run and evading police when he drove his car on the sidewalk to make pedestreans scared and jump out of the way. He was arrested at gun point and deemed unfit to be placed in jail so he was sent to some hospital. Rampage went on a real fucking Rampage. Can't wait till GTA and othr video games gets blamed. Crazy news, but fucking sad, who knows what will happen to him in UFC over this.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 16, 2008 21:24:14 GMT -5
That could end his career. That's awful. I'm also a huge Rampage fan, but I can't be too disappointed that he lost. At least in the octagon, he showed a lot of class in defeat.
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Post by cactusjames on Jul 16, 2008 21:44:50 GMT -5
And humor, which I appreciate. I'd be really dissapointed if he's done. As much as Forrest deserves the belt and is a great fighter, Rampgage could beat him, and had this not happened, I could see a series od matches between the two. Hopefully he gets an OJ/Tyson break and gets a second chance. He's easily my favorite fighter up there with GSP, I'd be pissed if he never fights again/
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 17, 2008 8:02:51 GMT -5
Rampage DEFINITELY could beat Forest. It's not like it was an ass kicking, one sided fight. I actually was surprised Forest won. I was a little biased the way I scored the fight though. In rounds that I thought were close, I give it to the champ. I figure that a title needs to be taken clearly, and if there is a question, the champ should retain. With that system, I thought Rampage won 3 out of the 5 rounds. At best, I considered that fight a draw, giving Forest a 10-8 round in round 2.
But I can see it going the other way too. So it's not like I was upset at all with the decision. On the contrary, it's a great story. The point though is that had the same fight gone the other way, I wouldn't exactly have felt anyone got ripped off. It seemed fairly close (with the exception of round 2).
As for Rampage getting found Not Guilty By Reason of Celebrity Status, I don't know if that will happen. He's famous, but MMA is still not THAT big that a guy would be SO famous that he beats criminal charges. It's POSSIBLE, but it's much easier to get a jury of 12 people that never heard of him.
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Post by cactusjames on Jul 17, 2008 12:51:38 GMT -5
He has money, he may be able to get some good lawyers. He may get some jail time, he may get off with something less. Nick Hogan won't be in jail long. And Rampage is still pretty young so I'm just wondering if he'll make a comeback at all, of if Dana White won't allow him back.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 17, 2008 12:56:13 GMT -5
Did Rampage hurt anyone? You said he drove to scare pedestrians, but you also said hit and run. The whole incident should get him SOME jail time, but if no one was hurt, I can't imagine THAT much jail time.
I think Dana White allowing him back is more the issue.
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Post by cactusjames on Jul 17, 2008 13:53:13 GMT -5
He was charged with hit and run cause he was driving on the sidewalk. And then placed in a mental hospital. The place I read about it only had a blurb about it, so I don't know full details and havn't heard or read anything else on it.
Seeing how pissed Dana White was when the dude on UF fucked up the hotel and limo and shit, I can't see him tsaking it easy on Rampage.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 17, 2008 14:14:17 GMT -5
I think you're right. So in the best case scenario, Rampage hurt no one, and we have some for of reckless driving. I'm not sure how it is hit and run without someone being hit, but we do have a potential resisting arrest. If he's in a mental hospital, there could be an insanity plea, though it should be interesting to see how long he stays there.
White did kick Jesse Taylor out of the tourney, but he also said that when Taylor does get his act together, he would be welcome back. It wasn't a situation of banned for life.
Let's assume Rampage is ok mentally and gets let out. I would think it will happen soon enough that he will be young enough to continue fighting. White should be the toughest obstacle.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jul 17, 2008 14:26:57 GMT -5
He was just picked up by the cops again today after someone ratted him out for acting out of sorts, and was bought in for medical and psychological evaluation.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Aug 3, 2008 15:29:33 GMT -5
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Post by MSBNYY on Aug 3, 2008 16:30:04 GMT -5
Wow. He's in deep shit.
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Post by MSBNYY on Aug 16, 2008 21:48:26 GMT -5
Just watched Brock Lesnar kick the shit out of his next opponent. Much better fight for him. I still can't stand him though. Should be interesting when his opponent is a top contender or even a champion. He was kind of an asshole though. The first punch Lesnar threw was absolutely devastating.
I can't believe a human being could take that punch and not be knocked out.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Aug 26, 2008 8:17:02 GMT -5
So, on the Oct CBS offering for Elite, you will see Kimbo Slice vs.....Ken Shamrock! Slice is overrated, I hope he catches a pounding. And Gina Carano makes her return, I think she is battling Kelly Kobald, who I like. Carano is the face of womens MMA, which means a loss for her would be absolutely hilarious. She better not come in overweight again, cause Kobald could go. Too bad Carano is scared to fight Cyborg, who destroyed Baszler on the last show.
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Post by MSBNYY on Aug 26, 2008 8:21:49 GMT -5
Carano may have more time to focus on fighting with Gladiators done. I wouldn't expect Gladiators back before January if at all. Ken Shamrock is over the hill. But I agree Kimbo Slice is very overrated. He would likely get mauled in UFC.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 1, 2008 7:49:21 GMT -5
Fun little interview with Gina Carano here, on the Craig Ferguson show this week. www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTZ4FS37VvQ So check it out, this weekend with Shamrock and Kimbo and Carano and Kelly Cobald leading the way, EliteXC fights for its life on CBS. A wretched rating and the company is dead in the water, and the MMA game changes again. UFC needs a viable alternative, to keep more fighters in the game, and more outlets if you are not simply a fan of the UFC product.
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