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Post by grover on Oct 2, 2008 12:08:09 GMT -5
Still, at this point UFC has all the best fighters sans one or two, so that not a fan of the UFC stuff is usually left for the old PRIDE vs. UFC internet nerds who refused to watch either and said one was better than the other. Even tough both were fantastic, some nerds just have to try to be more nerdy and make debate up.
Elite is total shit, and I hope they go belly up soon.
Balls, watching TUF yet? Next week is going to be a doozy.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 2, 2008 12:40:22 GMT -5
I've determined that I'm not that big of a fan of the opening two episodes under the new format. I think it worked ok last time because Griffin and Rampage were so entertaining, and you had that asshole crying because he got knocked out so badly.
The opening 2 episodes had their moments, and I do think they are good for the show, but they aren't my favorite part. Yet I did watch them.
I haven't seen episode 3 yet, but I have it on the DVR. Sounds like the preview for episode 4 is good.
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Post by grover on Oct 2, 2008 12:43:24 GMT -5
Well, I know you're a fan of the drama more than the fights, so I understand why the first two episodes would bore you.
But, this one had some antics, and next week seems like all hell breaks lose. More along your lines, me thinks.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 2, 2008 12:50:02 GMT -5
That makes sense. Episode 3 is when the show starts to get going, and you start to learn who the fighters really are, rather than a bunch of guys just thrown in a ring.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 10, 2008 14:21:42 GMT -5
Overall, the first 15 minutes of Ultimate Fighter this week was gold. But it did slow down a bit. Dana obviously let the guy stay for ratings, because he's a total ass. I guess it's good to have a villain, though I can't see this guy ever being a true force in the UFC unless he really matures.
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Post by grover on Oct 13, 2008 15:42:39 GMT -5
Well, it only slowed down for you because you don't like the actual fighting part of MMA. Next week he will be gone and hopefully we'll see some good fights.
On a similar note, I'm glad Kimbo got his ass beat and I hope Elite XC folds. It's a shit organization who openly admit to telling fighters what to do in a fight. They are a determent to the sport.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 13, 2008 16:52:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't say I don't like it, but I felt that the show didn't live up to the hype of the commercial.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 20, 2008 21:10:27 GMT -5
Elite XC is gone.
Observer is reporting most of the fighters were given word today, after CBS pulled out of the deal. The end-run and final straw was the investigation launched after that doof Petruzelli impied XC told him to keep the fight standing against Kimbo.
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Post by grover on Oct 20, 2008 22:09:19 GMT -5
Good riddance. They were a terrible organization.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 21, 2008 8:07:42 GMT -5
Well, dandy to say, but as an MMA fan you should be glum. UFC is really the only viable option now. Competition is needed, not just to give UFC a kick in the ass, but to give fighters a place to fight. Hell, you can even say goodbye to Gina Carano now, as UFC wont promote a womens fight. Now that CBS dumped Elite, no other major MMA groups really exist, to where you can see their product.
Elite even had me watching. I was cool with an option to UFC that did not take up much of my time. I enjoyed the 3 CBS telecasts. Oh well.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 21, 2008 9:08:27 GMT -5
Sometimes though, the problem with multiple organizations is that it makes it impossible for the best to take each other on. You don't have multiple football leagues, hockey leagues, or competitors to MLB.
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Post by rlm6370 on Nov 7, 2008 20:51:05 GMT -5
ESPN Deportes is the early development stages to do a MMA program like The Contender.
credit: Wrestling Observer
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 7, 2008 21:15:40 GMT -5
They already have that. Ultimate Fighter.
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Post by rlm6370 on Nov 7, 2008 21:51:36 GMT -5
They already have that. Ultimate Fighter. Ultimate Fighter is on Spike
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 7, 2008 22:17:00 GMT -5
Yeah, but I meant that it's the same style show.
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Post by rlm6370 on Nov 8, 2008 0:34:21 GMT -5
Yeah, but I meant that it's the same style show. I know, just messing with you. I like the idea if ESPN is in the MMA business it's good, because it might provide some competition for the UFC
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 11, 2008 15:19:11 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, I don't know if I would say competition is necessary for UFC. I think that it would be fine, as long as they make the matchups where the best fight the best. I think as a real sport, MMA should be like all the great sports, where there is only one league for the best to be in. In football, there's only the NFL. In baseball, it's just MLB. Why couldn't MMA just have UFC?
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 11, 2008 16:04:40 GMT -5
Well, for one thing, then UFC can decide what matches it wants YOU to see, how much to charge YOU for those matches, when to put them on, and so on and so forth. There will be less fighters able to make a living, costing someone the opportunity to be the next big star.
Im surprised you would at all favor one group holding a monopoly on something like MMA or wrestling. Thats just bizarre.
Competition gives us more viewing options, holds prices down, allows newer people to take a try in the sport (which, with one option, most wont even bother) - there are so many reasons its silly for us to even discuss this.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 11, 2008 18:19:40 GMT -5
Yeah, but the same thing can be said about any sport. The NFL also makes schedules, and drafts, and would have the ability to blackball anyone.
If there were more football leagues, there would be more teams, and more people making a living. But then, the best might also be spread out.
Normally I am against monopolies. But I don't think this is exactly the same thing as wrestling. A sport is different. I don't think UFC would blackball a great fighter unless of course he was a problem child, but that would also happen in any sport. It WOULD be about the money and the matchups.
But logically, they would make the most money by having the best fight the best, which would always be able to happen.
If they price themselves too high, people won't watch their sport. They would have trouble getting new fans into it.
Wrestling is different--it's not a sport.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 11, 2008 18:44:59 GMT -5
The NFL also makes schedules, and drafts, and would have the ability to blackball anyone.
You do realize there are nearly 3000 guys playing NFL football per YEAR? 1000 playing MLB? Dude, are you daft??
I believe UFC employs around 60 guys at a time, that is the last figure I read in the Observer.
You want to limit the MMA world to what 60 guys out of the thousands of guys (and girls) training for a pro career in it are doing at a given time?
Wow. Just.....wow.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 11, 2008 21:13:02 GMT -5
Yes, but those are all nonindividual sports that require a lot of players per team, and there are far fewer TEAMS out there than there are individual fighters.
If football is not your example, then look at golf or tennis. Only the best of the best make the big tournaments. And there aren't different organizations that top tennis players or golfers commit to exclusively.
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Post by sancho231 on Nov 17, 2008 13:09:48 GMT -5
So Brock Lesner Won the UFC belt this weekend, Making him the First and perhaps only man to win the WWE and UFC titles.I did not see the fight, for those who did, Any thoughts? i didnt think Brock could make it doing anything besides wrestling but shit he's at the top of MMA now. I cant help but wonder, is this UFC shit a work? I have always thought it could be,or at least Corrupt like Boxing.with guys like brock and kimbo in MMA now i would now be suprised.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2008 13:15:02 GMT -5
He's strong as hell, and a great wrestler. I don't know how anyone can take more than 1 punch from the guy. But that said, Corture is in his 40s. There has to come a point where this sport will be like all others, and age will matter.
Hopefully Brock will take on the top people now.
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Post by cactusjames on Nov 17, 2008 15:56:52 GMT -5
It's not a work other than the fact they gave a guy with 3 MMA fights under his belt a shot at the title. But put two guys in a cage they still have to fight it out, and I highly doubt Couture would let Brock just beat on him for an period of time.
As for the fight itself, Randy was in trouble from the stat. It was something like a 4 inch height advantage, a 20+ pound weight difference, and a 9 inch reach advantage. Randy's only strategy was to make Brock work and get him winded which he did in the first, but it's still asking a lot to tell someone to carry around a guy who's 30 pounds heavier than you without getting hit. And honestly, the shot that did it, at first to me didn't even look like he made good contact, it looked like a grazing punch but Randy just went down. The ref did a great job giving Randy every chance to work his way out of trouble, but Brock is just a big son of a bitch. When a guy of his size has side control on you, and just raining down hammer punches, you don't have any other option but to take it. The rest of the card was really good too.
As for Brock with the strap now, I gotta give him credit, he didn't go out throwing haymakers, he was patient out there. He got winded, so I think his biggest weakness, maybe his only weakness is conditioning. And his next fight will be either against the guy who gave him his firt and only loss, Mir, or Noiguera. And if he faces Noiguera it'll be a sick fight, but either fight will be to unify the heavyweight title, which is huge. In my personal opinion, the only guy who can take Lesnar, besides Angle, is Fedor. So if UFC lands Fedor, there's your dream mega match. It's pretty huge the impact this win has on MMA.
And the next ppv will be good too, the main event plus Rampage on the under card but I forget who he's fighting, but it looked like a good matchup.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 18, 2008 6:53:45 GMT -5
Lesnar is a monster. The WWE background probably hurts him in the sense that he seems less legit, but the man is an out and out monster. In the fight before this one, Brock connected with a punch to a guy's face perfectly--it looked like it could have caved in a mountain. I don't get how these guys have the chins they do, because I couldn't believe the fight continued for awhile after that.
Isn't Mir fighting Noiguera first? Ultimate Fighter coaches fight.
Mir beat Lesnar with experience. Caught him in a submission, but Lesnar was pretty much dominating the fight until then. I would be surprised to see Mir win a rematch.
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Post by cactusjames on Nov 18, 2008 12:26:35 GMT -5
Yes, Balls, Mir is fighting Noiguera first for the Interim Heavyweight Title, the winner will face Brock.
And I don't think the WWE background hurt, he was an NCAA wrestler long before his days in WWE. The guys worked on a farm most of his life, I don't think WWE hurt him as much as the other parts of his life helped him. In round 1 when he went for a take down on Randy, but Randy blocked and had Brock against the cage. A few seconds later Brock just lifted him up and slammed him. Couture is a great wrestler, but Brock out maneuvered him. Was that from WWE or his NCAA days? I mean there's no possible way, he gets a shot so quickly, if he wasn't in WWE. He already had face value outside the octagon. They marketed the piss out of him, UFC wants to hit a national platform, what better way then hyping a guy who was famous for shit he had done before his first UFC fight? And no one really considers him not legit, except for marks like Santos. Anytime they talk about him, it's former WWE superstar, they don't mention the championships. They mention that and go into his striking power, size, speed and wrestling skill. And if this was a work, why would he have a loss already, why not give it to some guy undefeated or more deserving? cause he can draw money, is improving with every fight and his background, which you think could be detrimental made the hype warranted.
To be honest, I think Dana knew Brock would kill him, and wanted the belt of Randy cause of the year long holdout. Now the belts on a guy who has been drawing more buys for ppvs than anyone since Brock came, and seriously, has a plethora of guys he can face for the next two years. And since UFC is close to being able to hold fights in New York, have the belt on a guy who can draw an interest and be there for the company, unlike Couture. Brock was hand picked, I do agree with that, but there is nothing work about this, I saw the fight, you can't fake a shot like that to the temple. It was right place right time, in WWE if the timing is off on a punch someone's really getting hit. This punch was a little off but caught him right in the side of the head. It's hard to script that.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 18, 2008 12:32:11 GMT -5
Why IS there an interim heavyweight title anyway? Corture came back, and lost.
I don't think the WWE background hurt Brock in terms of ABILITY. Like you said, NCAA champ and all that. The adjustment to MMA is very doable if you are that talented, and put in the work. Brock isn't the first.
What I meant was that because of that WWE background, he may not be taken as seriously.
But you're right about one thing--I agree that the WWE background got him that shot in the first place, and I would also bet that anyone who didn't take him seriously before, probably does now. What got me was that punch he threw in that second fight.
That was possibly the hardest single punch I have ever seen.
I wonder if Angle COULD beat him at this stage. I think in his prime, he would rip Lesnar a new one, assuming Angle trained in MMA properly. But today? Angle was so beaten up in the ring, and he's older.
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Post by cactusjames on Nov 18, 2008 14:50:17 GMT -5
There's an interim champ because Couture and Dana didn't agree about things in his contract so he was out a year, and in that time, they needed a champ since Couture had the title and wouldn't fight for whatever reason. He came back, obviously for the money in fighting Brock, and lost but at the time, he was essentially holding the belt hostage. So Dana White is as happy as a pig in shit. I don't remember Dana even going over to Couture after the fight, I may be wrong, but I remember seeing him hug Brock but saw no interaction between him and Randy. So now that Mir and Noiguera are fighting, Brock's next fight will be a unification fight, either against Noiguera or the guy who beat him his first fight, and we could have possibly seen the end of Couture in UFC, unless him and Dana come to some terms. He said he wanted to reevaluate and maybe fight again, but I think he was just taking the high road and being the classy guy he is.
I'm not surprised how hard he can hit, he's a big mother fucker. But I'm even less surprised he hit Jardine with it, he has a knack for getting hit with big shots.
And you won't see Brock vs Angle. Dana is quoted as saying Angle's neck scares the shit out of him. Not happening. That said, Angle would only do a few fights, and he's as tough as they come, and he's beaten Brock in wrestling before. But The size difference in a fight where you can knock the shit out of someone, not to say Angle couldn't, but it's hard seeing him do it against Brock. I think the only guy who can beat Brock at this point, either Noiguera or Fedor. I don't think Mir can take Brock a second time, but Noiguera is fucking good, Brock would have his hands full. Fedor I think could knock anyone the fuck out. If Anderson Silva is the best pound for pound fighter in the world(which I think he is), Fedor can only be classified as an animal then. If he comes over I don't see him choking like Cro Cop, he'd fucking take over UFC. I can't think of one guy, including Brock, who could take Fedor. Brock is the most unstoppable guy now, if Fedor comes, it's over Johnny.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 18, 2008 15:07:40 GMT -5
Interesting stuff. I wonder how it works when the champ NEVER comes back. At what point would they have dropped the "interim" part. Has it really been a year since Couture fought?
I would think Couture would be allowed to fight if he wants. More HIS call than any other. White COULD tell him to fuck off, but I doubt it given Couture's status. And if Couture never fights again, he still is a legend.
I'm not surprised how hard he can hit either. I was actually more surprised that the guy in the second fight who took that punch didn't die. The force behind that punch must have been devastating, and it was the most perfect punch I can remember seeing. The fact that the fight didn't end right there just is unbelievable to me. It was the beginning of the end, but wow.
I know Angle would never do it, and he shouldn't. And I remember hearing that Angle beat Brock wrestling before. In his day, Angle was a better wrestler. Period. But assuming Angle took some time, and learned MMA, COULD he beat Lesnar NOW? Now that age, and years in the ring have caused so much physical damage to Angle, I doubt he could be THAT competitive.
I don't know if I've seen Fedor fight. Has he ever fought UFC? It's weird but unlike other sports, where the heavyweights rule, in UFC, the lighter weights tend to be more impressive. Maybe that will change with the emergence of Brock Lesnar.
I also don't think Mir would be Brock in a rematch. I think it's awesome that Mir did beat him the first time though. But again, that was just due to experience and a great submission move. Brock really was kicking ass in that fight.
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Post by cactusjames on Nov 19, 2008 3:08:56 GMT -5
Sadly, no, Fedor hasn't fought in UFC, but s highly regarded as one of the best on the planet. Youtube some of his fights, I promise you you any punch or kick he's thrown puts Brock's punch to Jardine you love so much to shame. And the only reason that fight didn't stop then was cause Jardine rolled back so far due to the force, he was in a spot to cover up and defend himself. Any fight fan would say had he gone straight on his back like Courute did, he would have been knocked out and that fight never would have gone to the judges. He won the fight so it didn't matter or come up. But any Brock/UFC highlight reel will feature it. There was an uppercut that landed on an under card fight before Brock/Couture that I think is better, not stronger, but a flush shot to the head. I honestly think Rashad Evans knocking Chuck the fuck out was a way better shot. They were out before they hit the mat, Jardine was somehow, don't know how, able to recover.
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