MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 15, 2008 12:02:37 GMT -5
He didn't run into problems James. He became a crackhead. He had a talent that most people would kill for, and he snorted several years off his career away. That's not commendable.
You are right--he could do things I would never be able to do. It's amazing.
And I remember Steve Howe. Unlike you, I actually saw the guy play and wasn't 3 years old at the time. Fuck Steve Howe and his 8234 chances.
I have no sympathy for Josh Hamilton, and couldn't care less that he overcame a self inflicted addiction. What he did last night was cool as hell. But his battle with drugs is nothing to pat him on the back over. The guy who never used drugs in his life is far more commendable.
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Post by cactusjames on Jul 15, 2008 12:07:14 GMT -5
Really, the guy who got traded in the minors for a dozen bats is more commendable than a guy, who OVERCAME a problem. No ones patting him on the back for doing drugs, people are appreciating that he had guts to overcome his addictions. Cause his carreer could have been over, but changed his life, on his own terms. Wheather it's god, or just cold turkey, and it doesn't matter if it's alcohol like Chris, or a heroin addict like Hamilton, being able to ditch bad habits is very commendable. It's easy to have problems and way tougher to get past them.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 15, 2008 12:11:59 GMT -5
James--yes. Having the ability to hit a ball has absolutely nothing to do with who you are. The guy who strikes out at tee ball is more commendable than a crackhead who was dumb enough to nearly piss his talent up his nose. Yes, he changed his life, but so fucking what? If he never snorted in the first place, he would be that much further ahead today. Being able to ditch bad habits is NOT commendable. Not taking drugs at all--that is something commendable. Of course, that really isn't such a big deal either, since taking drugs is pretty much the dumbest thing anyone can do.
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Post by cactusjames on Jul 15, 2008 12:20:29 GMT -5
Really? Cause when you go to the doctor for pain medication, it's th same as buying shit off the street. When you get a scrip from the doctor, you're getting high.
Yes, he fucked up and made errors, but my point is, that could have been the end of the story. We might not be talking about him. But he didn't let his mistakes destroy him. No ones perfect, wheather it's drugs or bondage porn, and being tough enough to not let his problems kill him and ruin his life, is not an easy thing to do, he turned it around. And just being able to come back and play baseball is commendable, it would have been a nice story if he never played again and go clean when he was 45. He did it sooner, and is smacking a ball 500 plus feet. It's not something to scoff at.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 15, 2008 12:35:28 GMT -5
Please don't compare a junkie to a doctor prescribing medication. If you think that's the same, you're rationalizing.
Of course that could have been the end of the story--no argument. Is a guy who overcomes addiction better than a guy who doesn't? Definitely. But compared to a guy who never got in the mess in the first place, what Hamilton did is nothing. It's not something to commend or respect because it was something that never should have happened. It was his own fault. His own mess.
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Post by cactusjames on Jul 15, 2008 13:04:10 GMT -5
No but the feat he accomplished added onto th fact he had a tough hill to climb is. Cause at that low, he could have said fuck it and let it consume him. Yes, the fact he got into that shape in the first place is nothing to brag about, or be proud of. But to overcome that, and to be able to acheive the success he has, so far, is something to brag about.
You may not get this, but to give a kid that much money, he can get himself into some shit. And it's destroyed people. As dumb as drugs are to you, the fact is it's easy to get and easy to let it take over. He didn't. And he's still able to do feats that frankly, no one should be able to do.
And yes, when you get Vikes from the doctor, you're taking drugs. You're lying to yourself if you think you don't get high off that shit. The only difference is you get it with a scrip at the drug store instead of on the corner. It's pain killers, that's different than street drugs?
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 15, 2008 13:16:55 GMT -5
You're right--I don't get it. It's not the money that gets the kid in trouble. It's the kid. Other kids have been handed millions and did not become crackheads. The people that let that happen are weak. There is nothing to brag about if they overcome it by being what they should have been in the first place.
The fact that he nearly blew his talent up his nose is an utter disgrace. There is a HUGE difference between drugs from a doctor and a junkie. The doctor prescribes the proper dosages and weens you off it properly.
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Post by cactusjames on Jul 15, 2008 13:35:13 GMT -5
Key word WAS, Balls. He was weak, and was strong enough to not let it end his life, or carreer. Yes, getting to the spot is bad, being able to excel at something like baseball after beating his problems is something to be proud of. His life could be over, instead he's cracking 500 foot homeruns in yankee stadium. You're a perfect human being who doesn't do drugs and the closest you get to that feild is the benches in right feild. He may have fucked up, but now he's doing better than you and he should be proud of that.
To say you get weened off of something means you became dependent on it. That's called a drug and you expericenced withdrawl. You can take the proper dosage, but you're still putting a drug in your body and getting high. If you're on pain meds, you're taking drugs to numb the pain, if that's not the dictionary definition of a drug than I got a fucked up dictionary. You can take more than the dosage prescribed, it gives the same feeling just heightned. It's a drug. You're just able to turn it off cause you're not getting the meds from some guy who lives in a garage apartment. You get it from a guy in a white coat behind a plastic divider. But you're getting the same shit.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 15, 2008 13:50:06 GMT -5
If a qualified doctor prescribes a medicine, you are not a drug addict. A drug for a presciption is not the same as some jackass taking a drug to get high, and a DOCTOR is not a DEALER. You cannot possibly equate the two.
And Hamilton has a talent that many people don't have. Doesn't change that he's still a loser crackhead. He isn't excelling at baseball because he cleaned himself up. He's excelling at baseball because he had the talent to begin with. But that doesn't change his weakness and lack of character. He may make more money than all of us put together, but the damage he did to his body will catch up to him. He can't spend his money when he is dead.
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Post by 9 on Jul 15, 2008 13:51:22 GMT -5
So Balls, you give him no credit whatsoever for realizing that he completely fucked up his life and turning himself around? Unreal. Obviously, he should never have touched the shit in the first place, but people make mistakes. I'm not saying he deserves to be called a hero, but he does deserve some respect for turning his life around.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 15, 2008 13:57:51 GMT -5
No. Why should someone get credit for doing what they should have been doing all along? He's a dickhead who nearly killed himself--self inflicted. I have no sympathy for him, and don't give him any props at all. He never should have touched the shit, like you said. To simply blow it off and say, "oh well, people make mistakes," is ridiculous. Saying 4+2=5 is a mistake. Taking crack is just dumb.
Praising him is like praising a father for sticking around and raising his kids. That's what you're supposed to do.
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Post by Domi on Jul 15, 2008 14:13:37 GMT -5
It's too bad that Jeebus doesn't love him enough to allow him to actually win the Derby,
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Post by Jason Giambi on Jul 15, 2008 14:17:18 GMT -5
James, You know I never really cared for your or your posts. But after reading the last few of yours, I was wrong in assuming that. You are more insightful than you let on. Keep up the good work.
Hell, I play golf every Saturday with 20 alcoholics. I'll let them know that they suck for drinking.
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Post by Domi on Jul 15, 2008 14:20:14 GMT -5
I'm also getting sick of hearing about Hamilton's dream. He's not Dr. King for fuck's sake.
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Post by 9 on Jul 15, 2008 14:24:40 GMT -5
I'm also getting sick of hearing about Hamilton's dream. He's not Dr. King for fuck's sake. Now THAT is funny stuff!
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Post by cactusjames on Jul 15, 2008 14:28:12 GMT -5
Not really insgihtful. Just a dope who likes his beer and bong hits every now and then, and I know for me to say I'm never going to drink Heineken again is far fetched. I know people who smoke ciggs who have a tough time quitting. So to hear this guy do pretty much every heavy shit known to man, kick his habit and get back to what he loves doing is pretty fucking cool.
And it's easy to seem insightful when Balls is stuck in the present tense still calling someone a crackhead when he's been clean for a while. And in the same way athletes get a huge contract and buy 6 porches and wraps one around a tree, you give a 22 year old millions of dollars, it's crazy to assume every single one will be mistake free, drugs, cars, women etc, with that kind of freedom. It's just obvious Balls doesn't know what a drug is.
By Balls' logic, everyone in the bleachers is a loser. I know I havn't been in the stadium since 2003 but last I was there, quite a few people liked to drink. But alcohol isn't a drug cause they sell it at the 7-11. So as long as a grocery store or doctor gives you something, then you're not doing drugs.
Balls, you're a dope.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 15, 2008 14:47:25 GMT -5
Given that not everyone in the bleachers are crackheads, nope they aren't losers. But those who do use drugs and quit aren't deserving of any praise. They're just doing what's right for themselves, and what they should have been doing all along.
And don't compare alcohol to illegal drugs. Alcohol isn't the issue here at all. I know it's a drug, but if you think that's the same thing, you're nuts. The degree of severity and the legality of it make all the difference in the world. Your argument is weak.
There is no excuse for using crack. If you do, you're an idiot. Period. I don't care if you are 22, given millions of dollars and are on top of the world.
There's nothing cool about what Hamilton accomplished. Every problem he had was self inflicted.
I know what a drug is, and I wasn't dumb enough to use them. Josh Hamilton is a crackhead.
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Post by Chris on Jul 15, 2008 15:15:03 GMT -5
Balls, your douchebaggery never ceases to amaze me.
It's a good thing you're Jewish, because you'd make a shitty Catholic. No one is allowed to commit sin, atone for it, and receive forgiveness in Ballzaro world, I take it.
You are a douche for thinking that anyone is calling Josh Hamilton a hero. No one is saying that.
Furthermore, you are a hypocritical douche for your complete willingness to dig up Mickey Mantle's corpse and blow him, when his addictions were every bit as great as Hamilton's.
Your naive implication that alcoholism is tame and not a big deal in comparison to crack is just dumb. The number of deaths and ruined lives directly attributed to alcoholism as compared to that of heroin, crack, meth, pot combined is absurdly in favor of alcohol. Alcohol is every bit as dangerous and addicting as crack....and it's even more of a prevalent problem because there are tons of legal ways to obtain alcohol.
I suppose in your mind Hamilton should have just stayed a crackhead because if you fuck up your life there's no reason to make amends when asswipes like you won't acknowledge it anyway.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Jul 15, 2008 15:28:43 GMT -5
I guess Brett Favre isn't a junkie then either. It was pain meds that he checked into rehab for.
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Post by Chris on Jul 15, 2008 15:34:23 GMT -5
Babe Ruth = alcohol abuser Mickey Mantle = alcohol abuser Darryl Strawberry = crack abuser Steve Howe = crack abuser Billy Martin = raging alcoholic Wade Boggs = raging alcoholic Jim Leyritz = DUI'er/Manslaughterer
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Post by Chris on Jul 15, 2008 15:36:00 GMT -5
Brett Favre IS a junkie, probably. After all, he wears the wrong jersey.
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Post by cactusjames on Jul 15, 2008 15:45:39 GMT -5
Un-fucking-beleivable. Alcohol, because it's legal, not a problem. Tell that to all these celebrities and athletes who do a head on into a pole cause they were drunk. It's the person right Balls, not the alcohol that makes shitty drivers?
See, this is the shit the rest of the world has to deal with. Balls has no experience being drunk, being high or being inside a chick but he's perfect and we stink.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Jul 15, 2008 16:48:57 GMT -5
is douchebaggery a real word?
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Post by ajfreakz on Jul 15, 2008 16:53:29 GMT -5
domi hates jesus so domi hates hamilton and his dream.....
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Post by 9 on Jul 15, 2008 16:54:00 GMT -5
If it isn't, it SHOULD be.
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Post by Chris on Jul 15, 2008 17:26:27 GMT -5
Domi fancies himself too intellectual to appreciate the feeling of "spiritual fitness" that people in recovery strive for.
I understand what Hamilton was saying...and he wasn't trying to be holier than thou.
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Post by Chris on Jul 15, 2008 17:56:19 GMT -5
Balls is being a tad bit of a nutsack in this thread. I'm starting to think that either a drunk or a stoner kicked his ass once, thus all the harbored resentment.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Jul 15, 2008 18:32:50 GMT -5
I dunno. I don't know anyone without faults.
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Post by Domi on Jul 15, 2008 19:39:19 GMT -5
Domi fancies himself too intellectual to appreciate the feeling of "spiritual fitness" that people in recovery strive for. I understand what Hamilton was saying...and he wasn't trying to be holier than thou. I understand what he was saying too, he's just like every other born-again whackjob.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jul 15, 2008 19:46:10 GMT -5
Couple of things. God bless George and all, but I guess this public appearance lays to rest all the rumors of his failing health. Now you can see they are not rumors, they are fact.
Also, Willie Mays is a dick. When he was introduced and given a heap of extra seconds to soak in the ovation, he stood stonefaced, and did not offer up a nod, yet alone a wave, to the appreciative and respectful crowd. Worse yet, when Hamilton came out and tried to shake his hand, Willie did not even look at him, as he was apparently chatting with Fukodome. Even when done, he faced front with Hamilton standing right next to him, and ignored him.
Maybe he's like Balls and he just does not like them druggies.
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