MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Aug 31, 2006 10:17:04 GMT -5
The crowd burnt out in part over the LOSS. It flat out says that the crowd was pissed. People react differently when they are happy.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Aug 31, 2006 10:20:00 GMT -5
Keep in mind that review was written by someone who was NOT there. Captain WAS there.
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Post by grover on Aug 31, 2006 10:21:43 GMT -5
And I read interviews with wrestlers, and a few of them were happy the crowd popped for the Rock in the end. Trust us, the only thing that burnt them out was the shcok of Hulkamania. Win or loss, that crowd is burnt.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Aug 31, 2006 10:22:37 GMT -5
True, but Captain hasn't said anything that contradicted the Torch. By the way, on an unrelated note, is it possible that The Captain is the best wrestling fan on this board? We've all watched for years, some more years than others. But this guy was at every card, EVER. I just think it's time for a tip of the hat.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Aug 31, 2006 10:26:44 GMT -5
Eh, I put my standing as a wrestling fan up alongside the Captains. I have made many a major card myself, including a Sting/Hogan Starcade tangle in Washington DC. I also have hundreds of custom-made wrestling tapes and a knowledge of the sport that compares with anyone not involved in the business. So, to answer your question regarding Captain being the best wrestling fan on this board....he would have to go through me first.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Aug 31, 2006 10:30:20 GMT -5
The crowd was not burnt from the loss it was "burnt" because of the excitement and the level of the match. Then the ladies match was next if I remember correctly and no way HHH and Jerihco would recover from there unless it was an absolute 5 star match. I think the only thing that was done wrong was not who won but the placement of the match. It should have been the last one and everyone would have left the Skydome even more crazed.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Aug 31, 2006 10:35:00 GMT -5
Balls thanks for the tip of the hat. In reality wrestling my live attendance covers around 1981-1985 every month at MSG, WM 18 and 20 and then most RAWs and Smackdowns at MSG and particularily the Meadowlands from 1997 - 2005....Sprinkle in a ECW Guilty as Charged and One Night Stand along the way..LOL
I also did watch religiously Wrestling from the Olympic Aud in Spanish (Wed nights at 6) and Championship Wrestling from Florida on Channel 47 on Monday nights 11:00 I believe thoughout the 70's and into the early 80's or so.....lol
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Post by thecaptain15 on Aug 31, 2006 10:36:19 GMT -5
Also I will definitely take a back seat to Tom....He knows more wrestling than I do........I am just older so I was lucky to see a lot of the old vintage stuff live.....
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Post by grover on Aug 31, 2006 10:36:46 GMT -5
And there you have it. not too far fected of a possability, but all it was was the sheer brilliant of Hulkamania, and showing Hulkamania outshines fags like HBK.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Aug 31, 2006 10:39:37 GMT -5
To compare the power of Hulkamania to HBK is laughable........Just look at the world wide appeal WWF had during Hulk's reign and where it was under HBK. The attitude era did not take off until Rock and Austin hit their stride and no I do not hate HBK and am not a huge Hogan mark.......
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Aug 31, 2006 10:40:32 GMT -5
There are not many, if any, wrestling fans I put in the class of Captain. He's a great addition to this board, especially for a guy like me who aches to talk about some old-school grapplin' here and there. Captain is a Hall of Famer.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Aug 31, 2006 10:59:36 GMT -5
I'm not talking just knowledge and being a student of the game. Tom is all that. But all I can say is, the Captain's mom didn't give birth to him. He kicked out.
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Post by cactusjames on Aug 31, 2006 12:27:06 GMT -5
A never did I say HBK is better with the crowd than hogan, I said he's up there and if anyoen says differently it's only to spite me.
I hope you are having fun waxing each othewrs balls but realistically think about this. Rock could do nothing but stand there as the crowd ate up everything Hogan did. The fact that he was supposed to be face shows how unexperienced he was, and Hogan even said it. Basically, if it was reversed and Hogan was supposed to be face but got booed (I know, unlikely, but just for arguments sake) he would have no problem doing one thing, one gesture and boom, he gets a face pop. Rock couldn't do that even if he tried. I don't care about fan reaction, of course it makes a match better which is why this match is considered one of the best ever. But for actual ring work, I think the Summerslam Hogan match was better. Even if I hated HBK I would say it was a better match than Rock and Hogan.
I know you're going to disagree and it's whatever, I remember a lot of rest holds in Hoga/rock and not a lot of action. And it's funny to say that becuase hogan was in better "ring shape" then he is now. HBK/Hogan was a lot of action and Michaels was a bump machine just to make hogan look good. Rock didn't and couldn't. I'll agree HBK isnb't on the same level as Hogan with crowd response, but Rock doesn't deserve to clean HBK's toilet after he takes a shit. No way Rock is close to the level HBK is. Therefore in my mind that match is better.
I'll leave it with this, They aked Triple H what he thinks of the internet groups calling him power hungry and he responded,"Hogan does the same thing and he only wrestles once every 6 months. There was supposed to be a HBK/Hogan II but all of the sudden his knee started bugging him". Fuck that peice of garbage. All I know is, Hogan looked his age against Rock and Orton. HBK made him look like he was in his 30's again.
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Post by cactusjames on Aug 31, 2006 12:31:59 GMT -5
And one more thing, attitude era doen't start untill HBK jobs to Austin at WM 14. DX ushered in the Attitude Ear, made it safe for Austin and Rock to go out and do what they want. HBK and HHH and just as responsible for the Attitude eras than Austin or Rock.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Aug 31, 2006 12:43:00 GMT -5
Yes DX ushered it in but Rock and Austin brought it to Hulkamania levels.....I like HBK and DX and am not hating on them or Shawn but that is like it is.....
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Aug 31, 2006 12:48:51 GMT -5
You could also say that DX didn't truly hit its prime until Shawn Michaels left.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Aug 31, 2006 13:03:54 GMT -5
I could have but I was being nice and didn't want to get James mad.... ;D
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Post by thecaptain15 on Aug 31, 2006 13:07:25 GMT -5
Covering my wrestling viewing time I also left out I religiously watched IWA wrestling in the early to mid 70's which occupied the midnight slot after Racing from Yonkers on Channel 9 before WWWF took the slot over...Mil Mascaras was your IWA champion at the time being chased by the likes of The Big Cat Ernie Ladd and Ox Baker. The Monguls were your tag champs being chased by Argentina Apollo and Luis Martinez as well as Dino Bravo and Gino Brito......Cry Baby Cannon was the big Heel Manager...Other stars were The Mighty Igor, Eric the Red and the resident jobber was the Continental Nobleman Joe Turco (Baron Miguel Skulina type)...
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Aug 31, 2006 13:10:43 GMT -5
HBK hit his prime from the point he put Jannetty threw the window, until shortly after his first face turn after that. He bumped to the next level as a heel for the first time. I think he moved to an even higher level after turning face again a few years later. Very good IC champ. But there came a point where I just got sick of him as a face.
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Post by grover on Aug 31, 2006 13:20:16 GMT -5
James I just went and rewatched that match on YouTube and you remember a lot fo rest holds and I remember a pretty good match. Dude, you're wrong on ALL counts. The Rock just stood there? the Rock played it up as a heel. Did you even watch the match? LOL
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Post by thecaptain15 on Aug 31, 2006 13:56:48 GMT -5
Grover get back to the work
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Post by cactusjames on Sept 1, 2006 0:16:54 GMT -5
I did, and I'm not saying Rock didn't do his job, but if it was HBK, Austin, HHH, shit even if Hogan was in Rocks spot, if they had face pops and needed to get booed, the could of gotten a heel response in a second. Rock didn't. He did his job, no pun intended, but he looked like a deer in the headlights.And I'd like to point out, the hottest crowd will make a chin lock look all the more impressive.
And as for the DX/HBK/prime thing, the only other person more marketable than Bret Hart was HBK. Diesel and Razor not too far behind. WWF wasn't in a downspin because Michaels was champ, it wasin a downslide because they didn't have what WCW had, the nWo. But WWF's response, DX, a stable that A) lasted longer than nWo, B) got revived, twice, and sold, and C) did more than just keep main guys at the top, DX put guys over, help the business grow compared to just "protecting" the "made" guys, excluding, Jericho, Benoit, Ric Goddamn Flair, Booker t and Rey Mysterio, not to mention others. Fuck DX made the nostaligia tour of "LOD 2000" look fucking decent. Eh, what am I saying, Hogan is god of wrestling, he's untouchable, he can do no wrong in the mind of a bogger eating moron like MSB.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Sept 1, 2006 5:55:10 GMT -5
Not really saying HBK didn't do a good job in DX. He did. But DX got better when he left. HBK was notorious for not jobbing back then and his ego was bigger than Hogan's. There's a reason the ratings TANKED under HBK's reign as champ. HBK didn't bring the WWF back. Austin/Rock did.
And Hogan, in the week leading up to his match with the Rock, DID try to get heel heat. Hell, he "drove" an 18 wheel truck into a van with the Rock inside. That's not merely a heel trying to get over, that's attempted murder.
And the crowd refused to boo.
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Post by grover on Sept 1, 2006 8:30:09 GMT -5
Yeah James, you're right. Rock didn't play up to being a heel at all, despite looking to the crowd in a menacing fashion and pulling heel moves out on Hogan like whipping him with his belt.
Right, HHH, who has one of the biggest ego's this side of Hogan himself, would have turned heel. SURE thing. Right at the start of his HHH ego fest which made him an internet bash favorite, who couldn't even give Hogan/Rock the last slot because he wanted to end WM winning the belt, would have worked a heel on the spot. SURE, let's mention DX and throw in a few other wrestlers to make it sound unbiased.
What's next? DX could have booked WCW better and saved the company? DX would have beaten Andre the Giant at WM3?
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Post by cactusjames on Sept 1, 2006 10:42:51 GMT -5
Andre jumped, Hogan didn't do shit. Another overrated moment in wrestling history.
I know Rock did a few things, but if was supposed to get cheered he could have. All my point is if it was role reversal, there are plenty of guys, better than Rock that could have gotten a face pop if that's what he neded. It didn't matter who was in the ring though, Hogan was going to be chered first WM back. Rock was supposed to be the face and someone else with more experience at that time might have done somethign differen. Rock was in a tough spot, and he did what he could, it was a unique situation but I think the only reason people talk abut this match is because of the crowd. The match itself was passable.
And WWF was down in ratings not because Michaels was champ, because WCW had the hottest angle in wretling period. It isn't like WWF would have done better if Taker or Hart were champ.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Sept 1, 2006 11:06:30 GMT -5
LOL!! Like Andre COULD jump!
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Post by cactusjames on Sept 1, 2006 11:14:04 GMT -5
He jumped right into Hogans arms, all Hulk did was shift his body just enough it looked like a body slam. You see Andre jump right into Hogans arms. It's why I laugh whenever hogan goes on that it wasn't planned and Andre never knew it was coming. Like Andre would let somebody slam him without him knowing.
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Post by grover on Sept 1, 2006 12:06:36 GMT -5
Um, Didn't Andre tell Hogan to slam him? Do you know what you're talking about? LOL
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Post by cactusjames on Sept 1, 2006 13:14:45 GMT -5
Either way Hogan claims it was unplanned. Andre appeartly had no clue. Are you arguing me just to argue with me? We pretty much said the same thing. It's obvious Andre knew but Hogan claims he didn't. That's all I said. It doesn't matter cause in the end Andre still jumped into his arms, but the power of hulkamania claims differently.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Sept 1, 2006 13:35:18 GMT -5
James, I think you're wrong. I think Hogan tells the story that during the match Andre whispered to him, "slam me, Boss" - Hogan claims he was stunned, and thought it was an honor. Apparently its a spot they improvised into the match. This is out of Hogans book. He gives Andre all the credit for allowing him to do it. They were tight like that.
Where are your Hogan claims coming from? Source?
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