MSBNYY
Administrator
El Guapo
Posts: 15,545
|
Post by MSBNYY on Oct 25, 2007 10:04:42 GMT -5
It's possible, but he's solid. He'd be a cheap alternative to ARod. Are 30 HRs worth another $25 million annually? ARod is the better player, but there always comes a point of diminishing return. Give me two $15 million players over 1 $30 million player.
Lowell really had one bad year--the year before he came to Boston. He obviously has the testicular fortitude to not let that bad year get him down.
|
|
$heriff Tom
Administrator
Groom ba ya ya ya
Posts: 16,173
|
Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 25, 2007 10:29:40 GMT -5
Quick couple of things here. Ramirez is more than a "good player" even at this point. 29 home runs and 51 stolen bases, playing a prime position. And Balls, you idiot, you're a batting average guy - the guy batted .332. Wont even turn 25 until after NEXT SEASON!
Sorry, but I would do Beckett for Ramirez straight-up. Stop quibbling about who raped who - in the end the Marlins may have done the raping. And this is coming from a guy who thinks Beckett should be the Cy Young this year.
|
|
|
Post by mac0822 on Oct 25, 2007 10:34:09 GMT -5
Tom...If a guy pretty much carries a team to a title, it's hard to say the other team got the better end. Hell, I'd kill to have Hanley playing short for Boston - but guys like Beckett don't come along very often.
|
|
$heriff Tom
Administrator
Groom ba ya ya ya
Posts: 16,173
|
Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 25, 2007 10:35:55 GMT -5
Neither do guys like Hanley. Put him at short in Boston and you may be saying HE carried the Sox to the title.
If the Red Sox were dumped by the Indians last round ,would we be having this conversation about Beckett? He would not have "led them to the title" then.
Its WAY too early to call this trade a bust, a rape, or any such thing for either team. Both teams did what they wanted/expected to do.
|
|
|
Post by Domi on Oct 25, 2007 10:37:02 GMT -5
LOL @ "good player". He's only the best SS in the National.
|
|
|
Post by jwmcc on Oct 25, 2007 10:38:10 GMT -5
yes but what's his VORP?
|
|
|
Post by Jason Giambi on Oct 25, 2007 10:38:56 GMT -5
Domi,
that's right "good player". When will you realize that the National is an inferior league, and the only players that are great are in the American. Heck, the good rockies wouldn't have made the playoffs in the American League.
|
|
|
Post by mac0822 on Oct 25, 2007 10:44:21 GMT -5
THere are plenty of good SS's. Rollins, Reyes, Jeter, etc etc. There are very few guys capable of dominating like Beckett has.
Tom - Why ask if I'd be talking about IF they didn't beat the Injuns? The facts is - they did - thanks to Beckett.
I'm not saying the Marlins got killed in that deal, but MSB had a point. It's worked out best for Boston.
|
|
$heriff Tom
Administrator
Groom ba ya ya ya
Posts: 16,173
|
Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 25, 2007 10:46:25 GMT -5
Its worked out ok for Boston THIS YEAR. Last year Beckett did not set the world on fire. There is still a LONG TIME ahead to see where Beckett/Ramirez go in the next few years. Beckett on the Marlins would not have changed where they finished up. Ramirez served them quite well.
Sorry, disagree with your take on this one.
|
|
|
Post by Domi on Oct 25, 2007 10:49:05 GMT -5
Hanley Ramirez was 2nd in MLB in VORP.
|
|
|
Post by mac0822 on Oct 25, 2007 10:50:16 GMT -5
I do find it VERY funny that Hanley became a stud & knowing that pisses MSB off.
A few more years is all Hanley has. He'll be gone as soon as he's a FA. Back to Boston I hope.
|
|
MSBNYY
Administrator
El Guapo
Posts: 15,545
|
Post by MSBNYY on Oct 25, 2007 11:07:58 GMT -5
And those 29 HRs are really doing Florida a whole lot of good.
You would trade a young ace for a good SS. That's nice. And your team would lose.
Florida got ass raped in that trade.
|
|
$heriff Tom
Administrator
Groom ba ya ya ya
Posts: 16,173
|
Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 25, 2007 11:11:06 GMT -5
And those 29 HRs are really doing Florida a whole lot of good.
And what would even 20 wins from Beckett have done??
You really are oblivious.
|
|
MSBNYY
Administrator
El Guapo
Posts: 15,545
|
Post by MSBNYY on Oct 25, 2007 11:15:07 GMT -5
You're the one who thinks a shortstop who can hit means more to a team than an ace pitcher. You have lost any right to call anyone clueless.
|
|
|
Post by Jason Giambi on Oct 25, 2007 11:16:42 GMT -5
I wouldn't call it ass raping, but if Beckett truly is one of the premier pitchers in the league, it's something you can build a team around with him and Willis. It is easier to find a SS that can hit. Plus, they threw in Lowell with him. It was a dumb trade for the Marlins to make, unless the other folks that Boston threw in mature into A players.
|
|
$heriff Tom
Administrator
Groom ba ya ya ya
Posts: 16,173
|
Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 25, 2007 11:18:54 GMT -5
Idiots, Ramirez can not just hit! He hit .330, almost 30 home runs, and stole over 50 bases!
You guys are funny. If Beckett is so good, and a hitting shortstop is a dime a dozen, would you trade Jeter for Beckett?
|
|
MSBNYY
Administrator
El Guapo
Posts: 15,545
|
Post by MSBNYY on Oct 25, 2007 11:21:53 GMT -5
First of all, don't compare Ramirez to Jeter. Jeter is a franchise player with too much history. Ramirez is a second year player.
Would I trade a AA prospect with Jeter's potential for Beckett, age 25, with a WS MVP? Absolutely. In a heartbeat. Faster than I could type the word "SUCKA."
Throw in a 3B that hits 20 HR a year and .280, and I'll give you a pitcher that needs shoulder surgery at age 23.
|
|
$heriff Tom
Administrator
Groom ba ya ya ya
Posts: 16,173
|
Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 25, 2007 11:28:21 GMT -5
Right now Hanley Ramirez is better than Jeter. And he is only 24.
Trade was great for the Marlins.
|
|
MSBNYY
Administrator
El Guapo
Posts: 15,545
|
Post by MSBNYY on Oct 25, 2007 11:35:41 GMT -5
According to you, every single SS in baseball is better than Jeter.
The Marlins were fools. You should be their GM. They'll be in last place for decades.
|
|
|
Post by mac0822 on Oct 25, 2007 12:43:46 GMT -5
Would the Yankees trade Jeter for Beckett? NO
Would Beckett lead to more wins over a season (and postseason) than Jeter? YES
|
|
MSBNYY
Administrator
El Guapo
Posts: 15,545
|
Post by MSBNYY on Oct 25, 2007 12:48:00 GMT -5
You can say that about any hitter. Pitchers are so vital in the postseason.
|
|
|
Post by Jason Giambi on Oct 25, 2007 12:53:07 GMT -5
I'd trade Jeter for Beckett, no questions asked, especially now that Beckett's injuries don't seem to be a permanent thing.
|
|
MSBNYY
Administrator
El Guapo
Posts: 15,545
|
Post by MSBNYY on Oct 26, 2007 5:51:25 GMT -5
The only question now is will the Rockies actually win one game, or will they completely roll over and die, making this the third AL sweep in 4 years?
|
|
|
Post by mac0822 on Oct 26, 2007 7:38:59 GMT -5
2 down, 2 to go. I'm getting used to this World Series dominance.
|
|
MSBNYY
Administrator
El Guapo
Posts: 15,545
|
Post by MSBNYY on Oct 26, 2007 7:47:23 GMT -5
It's just a formality. The championship was won when you guys beat the Indians.
|
|
|
Post by IronHorse4 on Oct 26, 2007 8:02:27 GMT -5
At this rate, it looks like a scheduling conflict in downtown Denver should be avoided on Monday.
|
|
|
Post by mac0822 on Oct 26, 2007 8:58:39 GMT -5
How much does it hurt watching the Sox dominate another WS? Are you used to them being what you used to be? Or is it still a fresh wound?
|
|
MSBNYY
Administrator
El Guapo
Posts: 15,545
|
Post by MSBNYY on Oct 26, 2007 9:10:31 GMT -5
2004 was tough not only because they beat the Yankees to get there, but because it ended the 86 year drought. It really doesn't get too much worse than that regarding the Red Sox. A devastating Yankee loss like in 2001 was worse for me than 2004.
It was also frustrating watching the Cardinals, who actually had a good team that year, roll over and die like that.
This year it's just different. I was disappointed that the Yankees didn't get the chance to play them because I think they could have beaten them. Not saying they WOULD have, but that they COULD have. The top 4 teams in the AL were very close, and anything can happen. Plus I think the Yanks won 10 out of the final 16 games against Boston, so it was a decent head to head matchup.
But bottom line is that didn't happen.
This year, once the Yanks were eliminated, I felt that Boston won the World Series. So I got used to it. It's not as frustrating this time around because the idea of Boston winning it all is not foreign to me. Not only that, I knew that the Rockies had absolutely no shot.
Boston is not what the Yankees used to be. Titles or not, NY won 9 straight division titles. They won 4 out of 5. That's different from win one, get swept in the first round, don't make the playoffs, win one. Boston is not a dynasty by any stretch, like you implied before. For me a dynasty must involve 3 championships in 4 years, no less.
I guess the short answer in a long post is that it doesn't bother me nearly as much as last time.
|
|
|
Post by IronHorse4 on Oct 26, 2007 9:22:37 GMT -5
It doesn't bother me as much either. It bothers me that it's not the Yankees in there. It sucks that Boston is going to win, but it would suck more if I didn't get to see my team make one of the better runs in recent history a few years ago.
It will bother me if the Red Sox win the next three. Otherwise, well...they just won't equal what the Yankees did, and I'll have to settle for that.
I should ask you, Mac...how does it feel to have won two World Series in 4 years and still not have it even equal what you experienced watching the Yankees in the late 90s/early 00s? Sure, it's a nice feeling being the best team in baseball this year, but if you still feel compelled to compare yourselves to the Yankees, and you really think about it objectively, it has to kinda suck.
|
|
|
Post by mac0822 on Oct 26, 2007 9:22:50 GMT -5
When I say "we are what you were", I'm talking about the simple fact of just KNOWING they will get it done when they have to. I remember the 90's Yankees would trail in a game & you just KNEW they were coming back (esp when they were at home). That is how Boston is now.
I cannot believe how much 04 changed things. Boston doesn't sit around & wait for something bad to happen. They expect to win now.
The only side affect is the full ass bandwagon full of total fucking pussies that have never had tears in their eyes after watching a Sox collapse. Their only experience of being a Sox fan is singing "Sweet Caroline" & watching them play in the WS 2 of 4 years.
|
|