$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 28, 2008 16:54:12 GMT -5
From our friends at www.f4wonline.com (reprinted without permission) Chyna hospitalized after an apparent overdose By Dave Meltzer Joanie "Chyna" Laurer was rushed to the hospital yesterday after a Friday night party where it is believed she mixed a heavy dose of prescription pills with alcohol.
She was rushed to a Burbank hospital at about 5 a.m. Saturday morning when she was found passed out with cuts on her arms. There was a belief the cuts indicated an attempted suicide.
TMZ.com reported her blood alcohol content was to high the doctors felt they wouldn't be able to do a psychiatric examination.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 28, 2008 17:19:01 GMT -5
What a loser. She never did recover after losing that fight to Joey Buttafuoco.
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Post by Chris on Dec 28, 2008 21:19:31 GMT -5
She's not a loser, Balls. She's someone with a mental and emotional malady that manifests itself in a physical addiction.
Don't you worship at the feet of Mickey Mantle? Jesus, sometimes you really demonstrate just how little you comprehend about the human condition.
Having said that, Chyna was in severe denial about her alcoholism and addictions on that Celebrity Rehab show....left the show pretty much acting as if she didn't need any help with her issues...and never ever actually identified as an alcoholic or an addict. This story comes as absolutely no surprise to me whatsoever, and don't be surprised if this happens again and again to her.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 28, 2008 21:45:43 GMT -5
No. She's a fucking loser. Anyone who takes drugs is a fucking loser, and deserves all the misery they bring upon themselves. This is someone who had it all--fame, money, a professional athlete. There is no excuse for what she did.
As for Mantle, he was an idiot. He was a great Yankee, a great athlete, but he is dead because of his own stupidity.
I don't care if it happens again to her. Hopefully it'll be an OD and we won't have to listen to it.
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Post by Chris on Dec 28, 2008 21:56:06 GMT -5
"Anyone who takes drugs is a fucking loser"
More proof that you don't know SHIT about the human condition, and what's worse, you don't care to know because of your inability and disinterest in comprehending anything outside of the pigeonhole that you call your truth.
You do realize that many of your Bleacher Creature brethren, whom you call friends, are avid drug users and heavy drinkers, and some even on this board besides myself, people you actually know and commiserate with, have identified as alcoholics or addicts of some type who have come to the realization that they are powerless of these types of substances and have had to seek help beyond the apparently herculean self-will that you fancy yourself as having.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 28, 2008 22:14:30 GMT -5
On the contrary, it's proof that I get it. No one puts a gun to someone's head and tells them to take drugs.
Everyone knows what drugs do to you. You can't argue that anyone doesn't realize what drugs do. No one is that uneducated. You learn this from day one. About the only excuse someone has is that they are born addicted due to a mother being addicted. If that's not you, you're an idiot.
And yes, that includes people I know, for putting themselves in that position. Not everyone in the world is an addict but me. There are far more people who are on the responsible side of things than the stupid side.
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Post by Chris on Dec 28, 2008 22:50:10 GMT -5
Proof that you GET IT? You couldn't possibly be any further from GETTING IT. What you get is your little pigeon-holed reality and absolutely nothing beyond it. I remember Jackass getting peeved at you for this very topic...and he was right. You are rigid and most of all ignorant when it comes to this.
You're right. Not everyone is an addict. As a matter of fact, 94% of society are NOT predisposed to become addicts.
However, there are 6% of us who possess the mental and emotional maladies that leave us irritable, uncomfortable, discontent, and unable to process life on life's terms. Of this small portion of society, we were suffering from these maladies long before we ever took a drink or a drug. The unlucky ones amongst us who did eventually discover alcohol and drugs very quickly found out that these substances did for us exactly what we had been trying to achieve throughout our lives - some level of comfort and serenity that the rest of you know on at least a somewhat consistent basis. We chronically seek to achieve peace through these substances until we eventually become powerless over them despite the negative ramifications which you are lucky enough to comprehend so clearly.
Being a member of this 6% myself, I am not trying to provide excuses for myself or people like Chyna. As a matter of fact, the cornerstone to finding a productive solution to our malady is rigorous honesty and accountability about our condition. If a real alcoholic breaks a law of the land during the exercising of his/her disease, there should be no less accountability than there would be for anyone else.
This is your issue Balls. You seem to feel as though every person born was born with your equal ability to deal with life on life's terms, and navigate constructively through life's positive and negative aspects.
Good for you, Balls. You are clean and sober, while others like myself are hope-to-die alcoholics who have clearly become powerless over substance-abuse despite how many times brilliant men like yourself attempt to articulate the horrendous ramifications that lie ahead if we continue on our destructive paths. This is not a case of being smart vs. dumb - this is, as many alcoholism experts will corroborate, a case of society at large attempting to define a "spiritual" problem within the confines of medical or biological concepts. But I can't tell you that because of the 96% of "Normies" that make up society, people like you are, thankfully, of a minority mindset of them who believe that all of society are not only constitutionally and mentally able to, but should be mandated to think exactly as you do.
Unfortunately for me, I am not as gifted and as enlightened as you fancy yourself, Balls. Without an alternative positive solution in my life to provide me the ease and serenity that alcohol once did, albeit temporarily, I would surely find myself in a similar or worse predicament to that of Chyna in search of that peace and tranquility in my life, that you can apparently manufacture through sheer intelligence and self-will. Good for you. No, you're not pompous at all.
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Post by cactusjames on Dec 29, 2008 0:45:00 GMT -5
I hate when he brings this up too. Like it's a person's fault their brain is wired a certain way. I personally don't understand what right anyone has to judge anyone over their own decisions, let alone judge them over issues they know nothing about.
Then again this is the same person who doesn't understand that going to the pharmacy isn't much different than going down the block to pick up. Balls has high moral ground and is a way better person than everyone else. I don't know how people can think that way, but addicts are the sick ones in Balls' mind.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 29, 2008 7:23:28 GMT -5
Actually, it is a person's fault when they get addicted. It's not a question of judging. It's a question of fact. Chyna is in this position because Chyna is a complete weak minded individual that allowed herself to get in this position. She deserves no sympathy.
It's not a pidgeon holed reality to feel this way about addicts. It's the fault of a society that makes excuses for people's failures that treats addiction as anything other than self inflicted. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.
It's not about high moral ground or being better than anyone. It's a simple fact that ultimately, you are responsible for yourself. I don't give a shit about a loser like Chyna, but I will not act as if this is some sickness. It's not a sickness. It's a weakness.
Not becoming an alcoholic or an addict is hardly a sign of "being pompous." That kind of irrational name calling is merely more of the blame game and more of a failure to acknowledge the failures of the individuals that allowed themselves to get in the position they are in.
To hell with Chyna.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 29, 2008 9:02:42 GMT -5
Wow, I didnt see this coming when I posted that Chyna doo-dad.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 29, 2008 9:29:56 GMT -5
Nor should you have. Chyna brought this on herself, and deserves her misery.
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Post by cactusjames on Dec 29, 2008 12:24:00 GMT -5
See, my problem with what you're saying is society blah blah blah. Why is it society's fault for making excuses for addicts but not society's fault for not explaining that not everyone has a cookie cutter life like MSB? Not everyone is afraid to take Tylenol PM or Nyquill like you.
See to you it's an open and shut black and white world. No one, myself or Chris made any excuse for her, fuck I never even brought her up. All my point is that you fail to see sometimes it's not the person being weak minded for taking it, but being weak minded to not see how they're behavior is damaging. You don't understand sometimes, people don't have the luxury of being happy in their own skin. See you were programmed in your mind at birth differently than Chyna is, than Heath Ledger was, etc. Has nothing to do with the knowldge of a substance, no amount of books of info you read can prepare you for where your mind takes you on a high.
By you dismissing someone, like Chyna, like you did Ledger, it shows you don't know. The fact any of this is a black and white reality to you shows how out of touch you are when it comes to this. Some people aren't happy like you, some people have problems you don't have. The lack of intelligence when it comes to this from you and other people passing judgement on others is the real problem, because instead of trying to rehbilitate, you dismiss and judhe them. I'm not trying ti wish anything bad on you, but I think if you break of a bone got some pain meds, then got taken off real quickly cld turkey style, you might feel differently. A lot of drug shit isn't snorting shit in your nose or shooting shit in your veins, it can get to that by starting by a trip to the hospital or pharmacy.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 29, 2008 12:40:41 GMT -5
It's not a question of having a cookie cutter life. Society is what it is, but no one forces someone into taking drugs. If I have a certain life, it's not society that gave it to me, it's me following that path. We're all responsible for the paths we choose, not socieity.
It's not a question of being afraid to take drugs, it's a choice NOT to take drugs. I know what they are and I'm not so weak that I will take them. I agree it's not a black and white world, but there are things that are cut and dried, and taking drugs is one of them.
Taking drugs IS a weak minded thing to do.
I'm so sick of reading about celebrities in rehab. It's their own failures that cause these problems, and they don't deserve sympathy.
I'll take your word about no amount of books preparing you for a high. The reason I have to do that is that I know well in advance that the high is not worth the addiction.
I don't care if they are happy or not. If they take drugs, there is no excuse. They deserve all the misery that comes with it. It's not lack of intelligence that gets one to this conclusion, it's INTELLIGENCE. Everyone knows what drugs do to you. Chyna isn't a case of ignorance or birth addiction. She did this to herself.
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Post by cactusjames on Dec 29, 2008 12:50:50 GMT -5
See if someone has back crippling surgery and goes to the drug store for oxys, Balls won't call him an addict. But someone who has bad knees like myself who has no health insurance has to go down the block to cop some dope, and I'm an addict. He's the one who makes excuses and exceptions but he's the one who's right. I don't get this at all.
Hey Balls, my mother was an alcoholic who was on and off the wagon so many times before I was 7. She gets her shit together, gets away from some guy who was beating up on her, moves to Tennesee with this new guy who adores her and shit. One night she picks up a 6 pack just to unwind. The cheap red neck beer from those hayseeds has ethanol in it and it closed her throat hole and she suffocated. So is it her that's wrong because in your society she just shouldn't have done it and she didn't deserve a second chance, or is it those fucking cheap to make, pieces of shit who make crappy beer? There's nothing cut and dried about it. She wasn't downing a bottle of jack like she used to, she had a 6er, something a lot of people you know drink every night. So whos wrong in that case?
See the problem is not the drugs people take, or really the amount. It's the recapturing it the high. Going to the surgery thing again, if someone had back surgery and gets oxys, then the health insurance gets cut off and he has to go cold turkey but he's still in unbearable pain. He needs that high again to not be in excruciating pain. I you're mind he'd be an addict. It's crazy. There's nothing cut and dried about it.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 29, 2008 12:56:27 GMT -5
James--there's a huge difference between drugs that are legal and monitored by a doctor, and going to the corner and scoring some dope.
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Post by cactusjames on Dec 29, 2008 13:28:46 GMT -5
No there isn't, it's the same stuff. The guy selling down the block has the same shit someone gave him from that other person's prescription. Just because a doctor gives me a bottle that says 2 every 8 hours doesn't mean you have to do it. The dope on the corner is the same thing, if my friend gets morphine for pain and I take 2 when I have np pain I'm still taking morphine. This is why you can't even talk about addiction, because simple facts that everyone knows you choose to not accept. This is why you're uninformed talking about this, you don't know the subtle differences between dope and you don't know how the brain reacts and computes those differences.
Not everyone has the luxury life you lead and the outstanding ability to deal with shit the way you do. Some people have problems that lead them to a life of drug use if they want it or not. Maybe it's just me, but nothing in this life is cut and dry, black and white. And I learned that from my addict parents, so they may not have been parents of the year, but they gave me real life experience you don't have. And my point is none of that makes a person a good or bad person. I don't think you're a shithead cause you feel this way, I think that because you love hogan, but when it comes to this, I just think the personal experience someone has goes a lot further than reading books.
Cause going by books, pot's the gateway drug, but anyone who's ever smoked it knows it isn't So do you go by the book or the personal experience from someone who's used?
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 29, 2008 13:36:28 GMT -5
No James--it's completely different. You are not arguing that a trained medical professional and a drug dealer are the same thing. It's not. If you really believe that, there's really not much more to say.
The drug dealer, or your friend, are not qualified to determine the need for anything. I don't need to know how the brain reacts to dope. I know enough to know to not become an addict.
And yes, there are things that are cut and dried. Being a drug addict does not mean you have more or less experience in "real life." If anything, it's experience on avoiding real life.
And I don't think you're a shithead either, even if drugs explain away your inability to appreciate the greatness of Hogan. But I have absolutely no sympathy for someone like Chyna, or all these dumb celebrities, who get addicted to whatever is the fad drug of the week, and end up in rehab or dead.
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Post by cactusjames on Dec 29, 2008 13:42:00 GMT -5
The other side of this argument is the world of wrestling, which is what I should have been talking about from the start. The world of wrestling is fucked up, these guys take a beating for 40+ weeks a year, sometimes they can only rest comfortably by being doped up. I'm not defending it, saying it's right or even smart, the live a life we don't, so who is anyone to say this person had everything, how'd did they let it get to that? A certain lifestyle can ruin even the smartest life, you can foresee what's going to happen 5 years from now, but you seem to take the butterfly effect to a whole other level.
Cause Chyna isn't killing anybody I don't care, what she does is her business, hopefully she gets out of this rut, but she seems to like it, and until she runs a red light and kills me I don't give a fuck. I think she has attention problems and obviously an addiction problem, it's not a good combo. And who's to say if she wasn't fucking high all the time she wouldn't still be as crazy?
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 29, 2008 13:50:09 GMT -5
She's killing herself, and that's a problem, and of course, she's more likely to run a red light and hurt someone because of her condition.
I don't care about her either. As far as I'm concerned, she's just another drugged out loser who is getting what she deserves.
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Post by cactusjames on Dec 29, 2008 15:27:39 GMT -5
See I think talentless people like Hogan and Wade Phillips need to kill themselves, just because someone has a problem doesn't mean they're getting what they deserve if they die.
And she isn't likely to run a light, she's passing out in her own surroundings, not behind a wheel. See it's a personal thing, some people get drunk and pass out on their couch like I do, I never woke up some place I didn't know how I got there. Because I can get to a certain point and know when my choices are effecting others. Some people get black out drunk and go for a joy ride in a school yard going 85.
When people are getting fucked up, why would it matter if they are or not if they're not hurting anyone? What someone does to their own mind or body is their business. What right do you have to say someone deserves it? It's not your life being affected if she dies, and if she dies it's not because she deserves it, if she dies it's because she made a choice that being fucked up is better than living life sober. If that's her choice than fine, would I be upset if she doesn't turn it around? No, so if it doesn't matter to you why call someone a loser for making choices different than your own?
Dude, you're a fucking maroon. For such a political guy as yourself you really don't want people to have personal freedom in this county. Because if they're freedom entails a different lifestyle than your own they deserve tragedy. Shut the fuck up asshole, I've been trying to get my head to think of anything besides football and this shit isn't much better. This is as baffling as the cowboys performance yesterday.
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Post by Chris on Dec 29, 2008 16:09:26 GMT -5
"Not becoming an alcoholic or an addict is hardly a sign of "being pompous."
Spin Doctor Alert!
That's not what I said. Not even within a billion miles of what I said.
Not becoming an addict is nothing more than an indication that you were fortune enough not be be one of the 6% of the population who are born with mental and emotional disposition to addiction and alcoholism. It's probably also a testament to your upbringing - you probably weren't exposed to addiction and alcoholism, and/or many of the hardships in life that tend to push people toward these things. That's fine. Good for you.
But calling people "losers", claiming that their plight is nothing more than a function of their own stupidity, all under the assumption that everyone was born with the same mental disposition and environmental benefits as you, is totally pompous.
You moronic fucking definitions of addiction that you've spelled out here in your posts, are diametrically opposed to what leading experts choose to define drug addictions and alcoholism as...but YOU'RE BALLS....and that's gospel enough for you.
NO ONE, especially not me, an alcoholic to a severe degree, would ever make excuses for people like Chyna. If that's what you think I'm doing, the you don't read very well. Again, the cornerstone of any successful treatment to addiction is rigorous honesty and full accountability. That is where Chyna is at fault...not that she's prone to addiction, but that she is in complete denial and not accountable for her condition.
You don't know shit about this topic, other than probably regurgitating what you hear Mom and Dad saying all your life about addicts, "They're just weak-minded." And that's fine...that used to be the prevailing wisdom. Not anymore...science has proven otherwise.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 29, 2008 17:57:42 GMT -5
To blame alcoholism on "I was born with it" is just a weak excuse.
It's not regurgitating anything. Hitting rock bottom only makes one an expert on hitting rock bottom. It doesn't change that there is a weakness involved. Nor does it change that someone like Chyna allowed this to happen to herself, and there is no excuse for that.
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Post by Chris on Dec 29, 2008 19:17:39 GMT -5
"To blame alcoholism on "I was born with it" is just a weak excuse."
Apparently in Ballzaro World, your word trumps science. You couldn't possibly be any more ignorant on the topic.
It's not a "weak excuse." It's a reason for it. What is a weak excuse is coming to the realization that you have such an affliction and choosing to do nothing about it and expecting the rest of society to excuse you. It's identical to saying that being born with a deadly disease is "just a weak excuse for dying." No, the weak excuse is knowing there is a remedy for your affliction and not taking it. If THAT'S your point, you would right although you articulated it in a completely assholic way.
I guess you can call it a weakness...if you like. I guess an inherent mental disability (as evident by physical brain differences) in dealing deal with life on life's terms the way the other 96% of society does, could be construed as a weakness, much in the same way that a kid born with a learning disability struggling to read could be called a "weakness"....if the person calling it that is a dickhead.
You're right. Chyna did allow this to happen to her. She had a positive solution handed to her (if we are to believe that TV show was indeed a true rehabilitation 12-step program) and she was not astute enough to realize that she needed it. But she was not a loser who deserved it...she was someone who misdiagnosed herself, rather than taking the appropriate help when it was offered.
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Post by grover on Dec 29, 2008 21:06:06 GMT -5
Balls,
Drugs and booze are the foundation to everything you hold dear in pop culture. Just about every form of television writer is or was on drugs, drank heavily, and chain smoked like you would not believe, or they were fucked up to boot. Hell I just saw a pic of the head writer of 'leverage' holding up a finished script in one hand and a bottle of whiskey in the other. It was posted by the guy who's currently writing the new GI Joe cartoon, and is one of the most respected comics writers out there, who boozes and smokes like a champ.
This is not even touching what booze, drugs and smokes have meant to music.
Booze and drugs are awesome. So it sex. I prefer all three and my life is better for having them all at the same time. Some people can't handle the excess, but them's just the breaks. Being awesome is serious business.
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Post by grover on Dec 29, 2008 21:08:16 GMT -5
Which doesn't make you a bad guy, but most of the things you hold dear were created by fucked up people.
You do need to drink more though. Booze is awesome.
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Post by Chris on Dec 30, 2008 0:06:58 GMT -5
HAHA!
Charles Bukowski was drunk, cool, creative, talented, and left a mark long after his departure. Balls is the anti-Bukowski.
Seriously, Balls is just being a complete tool in this thread. It's great that being a "Straight Edge" has worked out so wonderfully for Balls. But, similar to many of his views in the political threads, he projects his environment, his reality, and his circumstances in life on to everyone else, expecting that all people should think, behave, and have the means to go through life exactly as he does. It's an extremely narrow-minded and extremely inaccurate view of life. But as is this case with many threads here, that's Ballsian Logic for ya.
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Post by grover on Dec 30, 2008 1:13:37 GMT -5
I don't think it's wrong that Balls chooses not to smoke, drink or use drugs. I think he is underestimating how many things he loves has come from the result of those three. It's not for everyone, that's for sure, and there are drugs I won't go near. I also don't smoke cigarettes. Most of the people I know who smoke or do drugs aren't losers.
Although, I do know a few losers who do take drugs, but guess what happened when they went cold turkey? They stood losers. So Balls is right in a way. People who became losers due to heavy drug use were too weak to stay awesome.
Also: Sex after pot is fantastic.
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Post by Chris on Dec 30, 2008 2:41:08 GMT -5
I don't think it's wrong that Balls chooses to NOT do things that are ultimately unhealthy for you, at best, and deadly, at worst. But I certainly don't think that fact alone makes him more intelligent than anyone else.
I think it's wrong that Balls thinks that people whose lives have become powerless over these substances when running on nothing other than their own self will are losers.
I know you were trying to be funny here Grover, and I appreciate that. But Balls' take on this subject is pretty pathetically ignorant of the facts (proven scientific facts), lacks any sort of compassion whatsoever, and completely ignores the fact that all people are built differently, with different constitutions and different life coping mechanisms and that some are actually born with predispositions to these kinds of things.
Touching on something James said. While it can be looked at as admirable when you have someone, such as Balls, who as allegedly never touched a drug or drink....I think it's a bit closer to accurate to say, kinda what James was alluding to, that these types were too much of a pussy to ever take that risky adventurous step to dabble in these various substances. Then these very same people chalk up their cowardice to "intelligence." Plenty of brilliant people have indulged in drugs and alcohol and have contributed intellectual efforts to society greater than anything Balls, myself, or the entire populous of this board combined could muster up. That's kinda harsh, especially coming from someone like me who has sworn off any substances for life, as my own life depends on it, but I think it's sorta the truth.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 30, 2008 6:47:14 GMT -5
So once again, you're back to the old crutch of "my argument is malarky, so I'll start with the namecalling." Again, drugs and alcoholism are due to a weakness. That's not "ballzarro." That's the truth, one which you are unable to accept.
It's not a disability. It's not a sickness. Putting drug use in that category devalues real disability and real sickness. If you get caught up in drugs, it's not due to some genetic problem. It's due to your own failures. It's your fault. You did it. Not a birth defect. Not society. You.
I can understand the namecalling, since the truth hurts, and we've become such a sugarcoating weak society that someone being unafraid to speak the truth gets treated like a shock jock.
In moderation, most things aren't that bad. But if you let yourself get into the rehab stage, you deserve what you get. And it's YOUR fault. If you LET yourself get to the point where you ARE powerless, like Chyna did, you ARE a complete loser.
I don't need to jump out of a plane without a parachute to know I don't want to do it, and taking drugs is like that. Now you are saying you're a pussy if you are not stupid enough to try drugs? That's just another rationalization for a weakness that allows addicts to emerge in the first place. Pretty sad.
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Post by cactusjames on Dec 30, 2008 11:18:18 GMT -5
Balls, read a fucking book asshole. Alcoholism is an inherited disease you fucking dumb mother fucker. You are born with it, it's a condition in the brain which makes one who suffers with it more likely to become dependent as opposed to someone who can drink two beers and call it off. There's a chemical thing in the brain for those with alcoholism how can you make up shit and say that's the truth because I say so? You're an infant with a toy gun sitting in front of a computer. You spin everything around, no one said you're born with it so you're drawn to it like a magnet, all we said was people like me who's an alcoholic because my parents were and passed it on to me, and Chris, aren't those guys who can have two beers and call it quits, in our brain due to a genetic fucking disease, it makes us know no limits. fuck, Chris said twice in this thread, people with alcoholism have different looking brains then those who don't. You can't argue medical and scientific proof you fucking jizz bucket. You can think you're a stronger person for not doing it, but you don't know facts on this and you make shit up to defend you're point of view. It's fucking retarded childishness. and for the record, anyone who can say they have a problem and fix it is a way stronger person than the dweeb who has virgin bloody mary's. so sit there with your umbrella drink and assume you know everything, but if you were to do research on anything other than Mattingly's stats you might be more informed on this subject.
But it's pointless to argue this, you wouldn't know the rock and roll lifestyle if some chick did a rail off my dick then threw up on you.
And yes, fucking while high smoking pot is great, although I'm more like Diane Keaton in Annie Hall I like toking after I make cumsies.
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