Chyna - what a mess

[cactusjames]

And so you know Balls, I can act like this on this topic, I did a report on alcoholism in 10th grade. Wanna know what class it was for? BIOLOGY! Suck it.

[Chris]

"So once again, you're back to the old crutch of "my argument is poppicock, so I'll start with the namecalling." Again, drugs and alcoholism are due to a weakness. That's not "ballzarro." That's the truth, one which you are unable to accept."

This is why you're a fucking moron on this topic. What you're claiming here as "truth" is about as diametrically opposed to what real, qualified medical and psychological experts agree on regarding the nature of alcoholism and addiction as you could possibly get.

And again, what you're seeming lack of reading comprehension here is failing to show you is that no one is asking you to feel sorry for addicts nor excuse the repercussions of their disease - alcoholics and addicts hold the responsibility to be accountable for their disease by treating it appropriately every bit as someone who has contracted HIV holds a responsibility to treat it and not let it's repercussions spread.

No one is saying that addicts and alcoholics deserve leniency for the havoc they cause during the progression of their disease.

But for you to categorize it as a black and white case of smart versus dumb, is fucking insanely DUMB, and no one, I repeat NO ONE with any real (as opposed to Ballsian) knowledge on the subject agrees with you.

And cut it with the name calling crap....everytime someone on this board comes here and dispels your insanity, and calls you a douche in the process, you fall back on that "old name-calling refutes your point" gag. Just because someone calls you a dick, doesn't mean they're any less right (or wrong).

[cactusjames]

Oh yeah, I got a 97 on the report in 10th grade, that also included pictures I found in the libary regarding what Chris was saying about the differences in the brains of someone not addicted and someone who is. Dick.

[Chris]

And to expand on what James said:

It is true, it's not science fiction, it's medical fact that alcoholics and and addicts have distinct biological differences than those who are not. That can not be disputed.

Personally, I don't think addiction and alcoholism are entirely hereditary. I think it's kinda like asthma - some people inherit it from ancestors, some people are just born with it without any previous family history.

My feeling, and the opinion of A.A., and the opinion of many medical doctors, including Dr. Bob and Bill Wilson (founders of A.A.) state that these physiological differences in the brain of addicts and alcoholics do much more than make us crave booze and drugs. It leaves us (again 6% of society) with a distinct inability to process emotions that are tied to brain activity such as anger, feelings of depression, feelings of discontent, and irritability. We are, biologically AND emotionally, less capable of dealing with these physiological emotions constructively, the way the rest of society does. This is, in fact, with no IFs ANDs or BUTs about it, a physiological disability predicated on different (from the norm) brain activity.

Having said this, one might infer that there may be such as thing as a person predisposed to be an alcoholic or addict who never touches a drink or drug. This is absolutely a reality. For those 6% who are predisposed to addiction, there are some with these aforementioned physiological disabilities in the brain who just don't ever drink or take drugs. Therefore they never really hit a rock bottom, never really cause mayhem in their lives and their loved ones' lives, but in fact.....go through life with this predisposition toward social ineptness, anger, discontent, irritability. In that sense, a "dry" alcoholic is probably one of the saddest existences I can think of. Many of this class never become full blown drunks or addicts, but live miserably and quite often "off" themselves.

For the remainder of that 6%, like myself, and apparently James, 4Dogg, and some others....we, with our "faulty wiring" were unfortunate enough to discover drug and drink, and found something that instantly quelled our dis-ease with life and those around us. We remember this "solution" to our maladies and in a never ending search for serenity we found ourselves abusing the drug and drink, powerless over that pursuit, despited knowing that certain negative repercussions lie in our paths.

However, there is treatment. It's not a medical treatment. It's an emotional and spiritual treatment that offers us real alcoholics and addicts a mental/emotional/spiritual solution to do for us exactly what alcohol did for us - provide some serenity and ease with life. It's not an easy solution...it's a never-ending treatment that requires constant work. Hell, just me typing out this whole diatribe constitutes work toward that solution, as maybe I will say something here that may help another, which is certainly paramount to my sobriety. Medical experts worldwide have embraced this solution - to treat this physiological malady spiritually, not medically. There was a time when medical experts threw their hands up in the face of alcoholism and bluntly informed it's sufferers that there is no hope and they will die from this disease. Now the solution is approved by the scientific community and is there for those who suffer from alcoholism and addiction. And THIS is where accountability comes into play - responsibly recognizing and treating one's disease.

To Balls' point - this is not a case versus mentally weak versus mentally strong. It's not up for debate whether or not alcoholism and addiction is a real biological disorder...it just IS.

Balls wants to chastise Chyna for ever taking a drink or drug in the first place....calling her stupid. If Chyna is a real addict or alcoholic (and I don't know her...I don't know that she is) she is not to be faulted for her condition...but I would fault her for irresponsibly failing to act on her condition when all of the signals were there, as well as experts coming right out and telling her she is an addict.

A.A. sums of the real disease of alcoholism as "Cunning and Baffling".....and I doubt that you pompous ass, Balls, has been carrying around the solution all along. "Be smart, just don't do it" - brilliant Ballzaro, so brilliant. So then how do you account for the fact that there were just as many addicts and alcoholics throughout history in all different eras, all different cultures? Your claim is that modern society is sugar-coated an promotes this so-called "weakness" - well before your brilliant assessment of a sugar-coated society began, there were alcoholics and addicts by the millions. What a dope.

[MSBNYY]

Again, the fact that you can't talk about anything without getting on some ridiculous high horse and go into namecalling is why you are a moron in this topic.

"I was born with it" is a total cop out. An excuse designed to make people feel better about themselves and disguise their weakness.

Everything that happened to you, is your fault. Not a sickness, a weakness.

[Chris]

And you're a moron because you can't read.

When did I ever say anything that has ever happened to me was not my fault?

Again, for your benefit here Balls (since everyone but you seems to get it) accountability is the cornerstone to successfully treating my (and millions of others') condition.

As for your amateurish challenge to strongly held medical diagnoses, you're just wrong. But that's OK, ignorance is bliss.

[MSBNYY]

Excuse making and not taking responsibility is a much better way to go. Remember, it's never your fault. LOL.

[Chris]

"Excuse making and not taking responsibility is a much better way to go. Remember, it's never your fault."

Holy shit you can't read at all or your just purposely being a fucking cock sucker.

I'm totally fine with my "condition" and my solution to it, which employs rigorous honesty and accountability.

[MSBNYY]

Of course. I can't read. It's not your fault. Pat yourself on the back. God did it. No one is responsible for anything.

[Chris]

Someone should be responsible for sticking their foot up your ass.

You're a dick for shits n giggles, I get that.

Have fun. It's good - you should be commended for making smart choices in life that the rest of us were too weak to make. Congrats on your drug, alcohol, and sex free life.

[cactusjames]

Yeah really, all he said it's the person's fault for putting the bottle to their lips, but it's not 100% a person's fault for the way the drink makes then react and deal with shit.

My Cowboys lost, I could go for a run, but I feel better drinking. I chose not to run because this is an instance where the alcohol makes me feel much better dealing with a loss of this magnitude. For the record, I consider myself one of those "functioning" alcoholics. I feel I can moderate it enough to do shit I have to do during any given day, and when those responsibilities are over or if I have non that day, I go to the bar. I have a preference to unwind and my ideal way of relaxing is drinking then playing softball. My choice. I could play softball but the booze helps me more than softball.

The only thing your lips should be around is the business end of a shotgun.

[MSBNYY]

Namecalling is irrelevant. It always comes back to that. It's never the person's fault. We get it. You're all victims.

[cactusjames]

No one said that, but keep making all the assumptions you want. It doesn't make you right.

[Chris]

Don't sweat it James. He didn't even read any of it. Much like sex, anything out of Balls' realm of knowledge, he takes his assumptions and imaginations about it and presents it as fact.

[grover]

Ok Balls, now you are acting like an asshole. You're also providing no facts whatsoever. You're also pretty much calling everyone on this board losers.

You're also very ignorant on the subject, because you're putting addiction in a box and assuming drugs. booze, and ciggs are the only thing you can get addicted to.

All I know is that when I get to work I'm going to have some booze, and I'm going to train a new girl, and if her BF isn't there we're going to smoke a joint and fuck in the lounge when I close the bar. Have fun watching American Idol.

[Chris]

Balls wouldn't know a joint, from a bottle of beer, from a woman's private parts .... if Lee Majors and Pam Dawber personally explained it to him.

[MSBNYY]

I'm not calling everyone on the board losers. But I am saying that about Chyna. Not everyone who drinks or smokes ends up in rehab. You haven't.

Insulting me, or making ignorant assumptions based on what other people say, will not change a thing.

[cactusjames]

But you did say people who get addicted are losers. And you're making assumptions about a subject you know nothing about. And you haven't shown facts, just ignorant, opinions.

[grover]

Well you seem to be implying that you don't use any of those things because you are a loser.

You are also being very prickish about the facts being presented to you, especially when the people are agreeing with you, albeit in a different manner. You're being a serious dick the last couple of posts.

Beer is awesome. You suck at softball.

[MSBNYY]

You misunderstand. The losers are the people that end up in rehab. Not the people who drink casually.

[sancho231]

Dec 30, 2008 13:50:03 GMT -5 grover said:

Ok Balls, now you are acting like an asshole. You're also providing no facts whatsoever. You're also pretty much calling everyone on this board losers.

You're also very ignorant on the subject, because you're putting addiction in a box and assuming drugs. booze, and ciggs are the only thing you can get addicted to.

All I know is that when I get to work I'm going to have some booze, and I'm going to train a new girl, and if her BF isn't there we're going to smoke a joint and fuck in the lounge when I close the bar. Have fun watching American Idol.

I should go drink at grovers bar. yo whats the drink specials??

[$heriff Tom]

yo whats the drink specials??

You get to drink with Grover on the other side of the bar from you.

[Chris]

Funny.

I attend A.A. meetings and have strong friendships and fellowships with hope-to-die alcoholics in my home group in Newport Beach, CA (why don't you Google the median income of Newport Beach residents, Balls) who have been in and out of prisons and institutions multiple times ...... who ...... off the top of my head .... are CEO's of international resort corporations, 30+ year practicing high-profile attorneys, major musicians, actors, small business owners, million dollars salesmen, as well as international speakers who talk on this very subject...people who could financially buy and sell Balls (and me) in the blink of an eye, people who have developed and fostered lifelong productive friendships, people who consistently and freely give back their found solutions to addictions.....

LOSERS!!

What do YOU give back to society, Balls....other than a few paltry tax dollars and aggravation on the internet?



HAHAHAHHA! What an ignorant douche!

[MSBNYY]

WAAAAAAA!!!!!

Now you think that these people are not losers because they have money. Hell, most of the people we read about are famous celebrities. They're still weak losers who threw it all away.

Nevermind. They deserve excuses. It's not their fault. They were BORN that way. God did it. Not them.

[Chris]

No, I think they are not losers because they provide a tremendous influx of positive influence into not only the suffering alcoholic community and the recovering alcoholic community, but to society as a whole.

If you knew ANYTHING about that program you'd know that overall positive good citizenship is the hallmark of participation in any 12-step program of recovery.

These people are speaking in sanitariums, talking peaceful walks down the sidewalk with depressed drunks trying to pass on the message, visiting prisons and spreading the message, participating in general community activities consciously working toward the betterment of the one they live in.

Some of the monumental financial successes I witness in the program of A.A. are a mere side effect of learning a new way to live constructively and positively.

Bottom line, these kinds of people are out there, amongst the community, actively contributing to the overall good with purpose and direction.....while you act holier than though, bitch people out on the INTERNET, chew out women in banks for wasting 10 seconds of your day, and spanking it to Chico And The Man re-runs.

But yeah, THEY'RE the losers!

[grover]

Gee, I guess anyone who seeks help is a celeb loser like Chyna and Danny Baldwin.

I also didn't know that everyone in rehab threw it all away. I guess it's impossible for someone to get help for being a loser before they throw everything away and become a bigger loser. Impossible, it must be. These people are weak.

[MSBNYY]

Everyone in rehab didn't throw it away, but let's not forget what got them to rehab in the first place. No one in rehab should be commended. They put themselves in that position. And the idea that just because you're rich, you're not a loser if you enter rehab is ridiculous. If anything, that makes you more of a loser, because you threw more away. A mere "side effect of learning a new way to live constructively?" HA! How about not becoming an addict in the first place. Most people don't need rehab for that.

[cactusjames]

You really are an ass. Why shouldn't people who faced a problem, and overcame it, be it by themselves, cold turkey or in a program with help from other not be commended? Because they didn't have the luxuries you had to never have a drink or do a drug? They saw they had a problem, and fixed it. Again it's a choice thing, does a individual feel it's more productive to them to just stone cold quit or go to rehab? It's how that specific thing interacts with their brain.

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of those guys who laughs when I see the shirt rehab is for quitters, but I'm not going sit here and act like those guys can't hack it. Instead of letting it control their life, they put their feet in the sand and went through some shit. Chris should be commended, you should be thrown in front of a train to spare us your stupidity.

Thank god you don't have sex and can't reproduce.

[MSBNYY]

There's nothing wrong with facing a problem and overcoming it, but considering the problem is self inflicted, no, it's not something that should be commended.

As for the rest of your post, you're a jackass. But then again, why don't you go OD? But it won't be your fault though.

[cactusjames]

But it would, and I'd never say it wasn't. My choice to partake in activities that may result in my death stem from a sensation in my brain.

As for the rest of your post, you're a jackass. Why would someone who stops eating fatty foods be commended but someone who stops drinking isn't? They're bothl self inflicted, be it food or alcohol. You're a moron.