MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 12, 2007 14:59:10 GMT -5
They ended the show in the middle of a scene and I'm sure they would laugh at all the attempts at interpreting it. It was lousy writing. Period.
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$heriff Tom
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Groom ba ya ya ya
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 12, 2007 15:02:11 GMT -5
I'm just laughing at James giving us a bunch of hogwash about Onion Rings. The symbolism of onion rings! Hah! What a hoot!
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Post by grover on Jun 12, 2007 15:03:14 GMT -5
Actually, they wouldn't, and that's why they did it. That's brilliant writing, pulling something off that's hard to do.
Did you guys expect a run of the mill ending? Balls your comparing this to the likes of Dallas. LOL!! Come on now.
LOL @ the onion rings!! They symbolized yummy onion rings, you goof!
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Post by Chris on Jun 12, 2007 15:07:54 GMT -5
Something tells me that Balls considers The A-Team and Chuck-Norris-Rescues-POWs-movies "good writing." So I'm not surprised that he's taking such issue with the ending of The Sopranos.
I'm not crazy about the ending, but by no means am I shocked or upset about it.
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Post by grover on Jun 12, 2007 15:11:03 GMT -5
Rewatch it, and it gets so much better. Then, you appreciate it and get to take everything in. I was pissed about the ending because it set up very cheesy, with Carmella walking in as Journey was starting up, and how the last words were "Don't stop" as it cut off. But, you accept it when you rewatch it.
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Post by Domi on Jun 12, 2007 15:17:51 GMT -5
Something tells me that Balls considers The A-Team and Chuck-Norris-Rescues-POWs-movies "good writing." So I'm not surprised that he's taking such issue with the ending of The Sopranos. I was gonna write something like that (only I would have used the term "pop culture fæces") but I figured you would have called me elitest.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Jun 12, 2007 15:18:12 GMT -5
My issue is that while I consider myself to be moderately-to-highly intelligent and somewhat of an abstract thinker, it took a couple of viewings for me to at least have an understanding, if not a great appreciation, for the ending. And please don't mistake that as a deep bruise to my ego.
And I suspect it took most people more than once, too. And I have a hard time believing that even the ones preaching about the ending's brilliance truly thought it was brilliant when they first saw it. But if they did, then so be it. (ETA: Grover just proved my point.)
My point is that the payoff for this television show, along with any other form of art that is being produced for the masses for consumption (in exchange for money, so fuck the "I'm an artist" angle), shouldn't have been me (and just about every other person I know who has watched most of or all of this show's run) getting ready to kick the dog because I thought he yanked out the cable wire.
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Post by Domi on Jun 12, 2007 15:18:49 GMT -5
Am I the only one who *didn't* think that the cable went out when it cut to black? I mean, I immediately knew what was going on, but it seems like everyone else who's talking about the finale mentions the cable going out. And I have a hard time believing that even the ones preaching about the ending's brilliance truly thought it was brilliant when they first saw it. But if they did, then so be it. It took me a few minutes of contemplation to reach my understanding of the events. I have not yet rewatched the scene but plan to when I get home tonight.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 12, 2007 15:20:12 GMT -5
Domi, you are truly coming off as "elitist."
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Post by grover on Jun 12, 2007 15:21:50 GMT -5
I didn't. It was a very Chase thing to do.
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Post by Domi on Jun 12, 2007 15:23:35 GMT -5
Domi, you are truly coming off as "elitist." I'm saddened that it's taken you this long to reach that conclusion.
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Post by Chris on Jun 12, 2007 15:34:39 GMT -5
Thinking the cable went out? Geez, talk about dumb. I thought the Tivo cut off early! hahahaha.
I mean come on - the ending was by no means some brilliant moment in television writing. I don't think that Chase meant for the ending to be as maddening as some people are giving it credit for, and I certainly don't think that Chase meant for that ending to be as brilliant as some people are giving it credit for. I don't think there was any symbolism in the onion rings, I don't think that the other patrons of the diner were meant to symbolize any wreckage in Tony Soprano's past...I do think the guy at the diner and the black guys at the jukebox and the manic parallel parking scenes were there to sort of get the audience guessing and put us in suspense - it worked - but in the end I truly believe it is what I said it was - Tony continues to grind through the life that he has made for himself.
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Post by cactusjames on Jun 12, 2007 15:34:44 GMT -5
I knew what happened, and I was pissed at first, but I'll admit it did grow on me. At first, I was annoyed I had to imagine what happen, but that was cause there was no payoff to this tension building sequence. I realized I ws more pissed that another subplot was never going to materialize and not so much that it was the last thing ever to be seen on the show.
I honestly think most people are upset not so much that's how the show ended, but due to the fact so much time was spent on nothing that the ending does seem anticlimatic. But going by the shows premise, and history of the show, things never get answered. How many years have we been talking about Pine Barrens and that fucking russian? Mefi gets raped, never says anything, gone completly by the wayside. It's how the show has always been, and to bitch about he last episode is crazy talk, how could you not be suprised it ended like that? Yeah it was out of nowhere, and you can draw your own conclusion about the meaning of it all, but if you've been a fan of this show, Chase pulling this move shouldn't be out of the blue and shouldn'tfeel unrewarded for 9 years of viewing.
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Post by Domi on Jun 12, 2007 15:54:08 GMT -5
I don't think that Chase meant for the ending to be as maddening as some people are giving it credit for, and I certainly don't think that Chase meant for that ending to be as brilliant as some people are giving it credit for. I don't think there was any symbolism in the onion rings, I don't think that the other patrons of the diner were meant to symbolize any wreckage in Tony Soprano's past...I do think the guy at the diner and the black guys at the jukebox and the manic parallel parking scenes were there to sort of get the audience guessing and put us in suspense - it worked - but in the end I truly believe it is what I said it was - Tony continues to grind through the life that he has made for himself. I agree with all of that. But what you've just described is the reason why the ending is brilliant.
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Post by Chris on Jun 12, 2007 16:11:50 GMT -5
The thing about Melfi getting raped is this - what should the writers have done - had Melfi tell Tony she was raped and who did it, so Tony could have the guy killed? That would have been a little trite for my tastes. And besides, the goal of the show was not to make Tony out to be some misunderstood hero, like...oh yeah, this guy is the head of a mafia family and has people killed on a whim, but deep down he's a heroic character. Tony Soprano is a sociopath, just like the conversations between the psychologists indicated. Chase's goal was not to make Tony a beloved hero...and him avenging Melfi's rape would have done much to do that. I'm good with the Melfi rape plot line - it was just another tactic to put the audience in a state of anticipation...a several year-long state of anticipation.
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Post by grover on Jun 12, 2007 20:02:10 GMT -5
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Post by BigAl115 on Jun 12, 2007 20:14:54 GMT -5
Worst Episode Ever !!!
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Post by cactusjames on Jun 12, 2007 20:44:30 GMT -5
I wasn't complaining about the Melfi rape, just pointing out it's one of the subplots they never revisted or wrapped up.
That real ending is fucking funny.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Jun 13, 2007 7:31:24 GMT -5
Now THAT is brilliant.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 13, 2007 8:47:39 GMT -5
Did you guys expect a run of the mill ending? Balls your comparing this to the likes of Dallas. LOL!! Come on now. ===============
Not being "run of the mill" doesn't mean shitty writing. That scene in Sopranos was shitty writing. Dallas was a far more successful show than Sopranos ever could be on its best day. Different style of course, but in its heyday (pre-dream) it was one of the better shows on TV.
But Dallas had a shitty finale. So did Sopranos. Compare that to Newhart, which also was a different ending, and is remembered as one of the best ever.
Or MASH, also an outstanding finale.
Liking that ending and trying to make it something it wasn't, comes off as a weak attempt at showing you're intelligent. It's kind of like when someone here bashes anything pro-Yankee, as an attempt to prove they are a real baseball fan. It doesn't work.
It's not about resolving every issue. It's about cutting out in the middle of a scene. Bad writing.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 13, 2007 8:53:23 GMT -5
Oh, and yes, that ending posted was brilliant.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Jun 13, 2007 9:19:57 GMT -5
I loved the real ending.
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Post by Chris on Jun 13, 2007 11:58:38 GMT -5
As a matter of fact, now that I think of it, The Sopranos ending was somewhat like the Cheers ending
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 13, 2007 12:06:27 GMT -5
It was nothing like the Cheers ending. The Cheers ending didn't cut off in the middle of a scene.
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Post by Chris on Jun 13, 2007 12:16:39 GMT -5
The Cheers ending, ended with Sam locking up the bar and we were left to assume that the gang continued on, business as usual.
That's the ending we were given with the Sopranos. The Sopranos did not "cut off in the middle of scene"- it ended with the family eating dinner together, with the same ole personalities, same ole gripes and complaints about legal issues and so forth...it was "Business As Usual" for Tony Soprano.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 13, 2007 12:25:15 GMT -5
The Cheers ending, ended with Sam locking up the bar and we were left to assume that the gang continued on, business as usual. =================
True, and there was nothing wrong with that. I don't think anyone has an issue with business as usual. The Sopranos absolutely cut off in the middle of a scene. It's like they ended the book without the last page, or in mid sentence.
Sure, you can make a guess as to what happened. But it's poor writing that they had to do that.
With Cheers, it was very clear.
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Post by Chris on Jun 13, 2007 12:44:18 GMT -5
You're either putting WAY too much thought into the ending of The Sorpanos, or not nearly enough.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 13, 2007 12:48:47 GMT -5
Not at all. It doesn't require that much thought. This wasn't some sort of deep message. It was just bad writing. They ended in the middle of a scene. It may not have been intentional, but it was a slap in the face to long time followers of the show. Obviously, this got them a lot of attention, and most of the reaction has been negative.
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Post by Domi on Jun 13, 2007 13:04:57 GMT -5
MSB: arbiter of all things art.
The ending was certainly not a slap in the face to this long time follower, only to people who never truly got it.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 13, 2007 13:14:22 GMT -5
And that's the smarmy answer. But it's hardly accurate. If you didn't like the ending, it doesn't mean you didn't "get it." It means you didn't like the ending. It also means you expect competent writing, and ending a show in the middle of a scene is not competent writing.
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