$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 13, 2009 10:47:20 GMT -5
Obviously the crew at Prime 9 agreed. And we'll see once Edmonds is out of the game 5 years, and he scores more Hall votes than Bernie did.
Just talking fact here, folks.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 13, 2009 10:52:01 GMT -5
They aren't the be all end all.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 13:14:59 GMT -5
So, I'm just catching up on all of the Prime 9 shows.
Two points:
1) Centerfielder show along with Home Run show during the Aaron segment only solidified my opinion of Willie Mays as a self-important prick. No wonder his godson is such an asswipe.
2) Did Earl Weaver make the Top 9 Baseball Characters list? I only saw from about 5 or 6 on.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 13:19:19 GMT -5
I wanted to jump right on this Jim Edmonds HOF nonsense, but after a review of the numbers...
Wow.
This guy kinda flies under the radar.
All of those Gold Gloves and 382 HRs, and a 284 lifetime avg for what will pretty much be remembered as a chronic injury plagued career. Pretty damn impressive.
I'd give him an HOF nod.
I guess I had just assumed that his total stats would be unimpressive due to the sheer amount of time he's spend on the DL.
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Post by 9 on Jan 13, 2009 13:21:34 GMT -5
Edmonds spent time on the DL because he crashed full speed into walls trying to make catches, unlike douche Pavano hurting his ass covering 1B during spring training.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 13, 2009 13:36:39 GMT -5
Did Earl Weaver make the Top 9 Baseball Characters list? I only saw from about 5 or 6 on.
On the one episode I saw - CFs, I have the other ones DVRd, they recapped the top 10 at least twice in the episode before moving on after commercials.
Good to see you did the legwork on Edmonds there, I agree with your take. I think Edmonds is being savagely underrated on this board.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 13:38:48 GMT -5
Ok, so....was Earl Weaver on there, or not.
He will, for me, always be the NUMBER ONE baseball character.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 13:40:53 GMT -5
I knew Edmonds was a great fielder, but so was that field goal kicker from Nebraska (can't remember the name now) and no one is about to mention him for the HOF.
I guess I had just figured he and Edmonds were of the same ilk - good when playing, but mostly hurt.
I am happy to admit that my preconceived notions about Edmonds were savagely wrong.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 13, 2009 13:57:47 GMT -5
Ok, so....was Earl Weaver on there, or not.
Did I not just say that the only Prime Nine I have seen so far is the one about the CFs? So how the Hell would i know?
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Post by 9 on Jan 13, 2009 14:22:52 GMT -5
Darin Erstad? He wasn't remotely in Edmonds' league.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 13, 2009 15:08:50 GMT -5
Yeah, give me a break with that.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 15:11:12 GMT -5
Uhhhh....
....I said my initial reaction about Edmonds was that he was a similar type player: aggressive fielder, diving into walls, very good bat....WHILE PLAYING, but mostly injured.
And did I not just state that my investigation into Edmond's numbers has admittedly proven me dead wrong about the guy.
He's definitely an under the radar kinda guy, mainly because he wasn't always in the line up. Great player.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 15:13:04 GMT -5
And the fact that the Angels dispatched Edmonds (known in Angels-lore, at least, as a horrendous clubhouse presence) in lieu of Erstad probably did something to enforce that stigma.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 13, 2009 15:14:51 GMT -5
I think that's a fair statement though. Good while playing, but hurt too often.
Not as good as Bernie overall.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 15:18:10 GMT -5
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 13, 2009 15:21:46 GMT -5
Cho, its hopeless. Balls is hopeless.
Again, reason Edmonds made the same list as guys like Mantle, Mays, Puckett and Cobb, and Bernie Williams is a forgotten man begging for work.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 15:22:42 GMT -5
Bernie Williams had 100 fewer Home Runs, and only about 75 more RBIs in 1200 more at-bats.
Not as good a fielder, not 1/10th the arm.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 13, 2009 15:26:55 GMT -5
Cho, I said all those exact same things. Did you not see my diatribes?
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 15:30:54 GMT -5
My fault - sorry. That was on the previous page, on which i was consumed with the Giambi, Abreu, Mussina stuff.
What Tom said, Balls!
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 13, 2009 15:45:33 GMT -5
I guess you didn't read any of the pro-Bernie stuff. Again:
Edmonds was a very good player, but he was also injury prone. Why do you think Edmonds has 1100 fewer at bats? Bernie has 450 more hits than Edmonds.
Bernie has 5 100 RBI seasons. Edmonds has 4.
In case you didn't know, Bernie was a switch hitter. Edmonds was not.
Bernie stole over twice as many bases as Edmonds.
In 1100 fewer at bats, Edmonds has 400 more strikeouts. So while he had more power, he also had more potential to kill an inning.
Bernie had 5 All Star appearances. Edmonds 4. Bernie has a batting title, and finished in the top 5 in hitting 4 times. Edmonds finished in the top 10 just once.
Edmonds never had a 200 hit season. His career high is 184, and that happened just once. Bernie Williams AVERAGED 182 hits per 162 games. That's about 25-30 hits more than Edmonds.
Edmonds hasn't even had a 100 hit season since 2005, when he was 35 years old. Again, Bernie was more productive than Edmonds at this stage in his career.
Edmonds was a really good CF and a GREAT fielding CF.
Edmonds was no Bernie Williams.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 16:16:39 GMT -5
That's like saying Roy White was better than Josh Hamilton....he had more ABs.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 13, 2009 16:37:47 GMT -5
In case you didn't know, Bernie was a switch hitter. Edmonds was not.
Who gives a shit?
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 13, 2009 17:29:21 GMT -5
No it's not like saying Roy White was better than Josh Hamilton, although of course Hamilton has a little bit to go before getting to where White was.
Bernie Williams and Jim Edmonds both have a pretty decent body of work, and shared an era. Bernie was better.
As for giving a shit about being a switch hitters, I would say pretty much anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that being a switch hitter is an asset. Not surprising you don't care.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 17:47:17 GMT -5
Being a switch hitter doesn't turn Melky Cabrera into Albert Pujols!
What a crock!
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 17:48:33 GMT -5
I would guess, that if you asked this question of 100 baseball writers, 100 would say Jim Edmonds is better than Bernie Williams.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 13, 2009 18:17:15 GMT -5
I said the same thing, although I threw Balls a bone and said 90 of 100.
But he is WAAAAAAAAY off here.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 13, 2009 18:17:53 GMT -5
No you're right. Being a switch hitter does not turn Melky into Pujols, and not all switch hitters are good. But it does help your resume.
And in Bernie's case, it was a great asset. Bernie Williams is far superior to Melky Cabrera.
And if you asked this question of 100 baseball writers, the only ones that would say that Edmonds was better than Williams would be the same Yankee haters that live to discredit Jeter.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 13, 2009 18:30:14 GMT -5
Welcome Cho, apparently you're a "Yankee hater" too.
Balls, you're a dick.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 18:32:06 GMT -5
I never wanted to be a Yankee hater. I'm sad.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2009 18:36:10 GMT -5
Suzyn Waldman thinks Balls wears Yankee Blinders.
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