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Post by yanksgooner on Nov 13, 2007 11:51:19 GMT -5
T516 LARRY KNUCKLES SHANE
REPEAT CAPTAINS!!!!!!!!!!!! DO IT!!!
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 13, 2007 11:52:18 GMT -5
If there are repeat captains going down, I have a right to put my name into the hat, being one of the originals. Your list needs work.
Also, I thought next year was confirmed as being the year of four chick captains.
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Post by yanksgooner on Nov 13, 2007 11:54:18 GMT -5
while i'd hate to see larry on a different team in a year when in my opinion T516 should have position #1....
I think it's time....
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Nov 13, 2007 12:00:34 GMT -5
i have no interest in being captain next season as tone516 will be my captain next season. all hail tone516!!!!!!
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 13, 2007 12:02:54 GMT -5
Talk about early! We don't even have a date of the game yet, though July 12 is looking like a good date to apply for.
It's no secret I'm very much in favor of repeat captains. And I say that as someone with no desire to do it again.
But that's hardly my call.
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Post by grover on Nov 13, 2007 12:45:24 GMT -5
If we let captains back into the pool, then we will have one set of captains return per year.
So, if decided that we will go that route, then Tom, Miles and Milton are back in. Next year Steve, Justin, Domi and Larry are back. After that it will be Pops, Milianta, and Dever. Ect....
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 13, 2007 12:49:39 GMT -5
Why? I sort of understand the point, but do you think that it should be just year one? I think 4 years is a pretty long time, and that both year one and two should be allowed back in the pool this year. I'm not saying they will get the vote, or even that they WANT to do it again, but I would love to see the options open.
It just opens up more possibilities.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 13, 2007 12:52:49 GMT -5
Grover get some control here....
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Post by grover on Nov 13, 2007 12:56:39 GMT -5
Because I said so, that's why.
Besides, this will only be up for vote if we can't get a decent crop of captains to vote from. I will ask as many people as I can, and get as many people on the list as I can. Hoe many years did Frost say he would never be a captain yet last year I was able to get him to reconsider. Let the people get their chance before we go back to old caps.
Also: I'm going to propose a more important change to the game which the captains will be deciding on, and from early indications, it;s going to be a spirited debate.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 13, 2007 12:57:55 GMT -5
What change?
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Post by grover on Nov 13, 2007 13:05:36 GMT -5
Lowering the arc OR the expanding of the strikezone. The despicable act of fishing for walks in slowpitch softball ends this year. Swing the bat or don't play.
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Nov 13, 2007 13:06:41 GMT -5
here we go with grover fucking shit up again, because he said so. seriously, this guy is the worst possible person to handle this job.
also. why is it that everyone has to be considered for captain? there are some people who should not be allowed to sniff captaincy. seriously. but that will never happen in the new age politically correct bleachers. you all suck my fucking cock. losers.
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Post by grover on Nov 13, 2007 13:08:56 GMT -5
Ok, I could just hand the job back to Balls and let him malarky you about permits and keep the game the way it is so asshole like Evan can krazyglue the bat to their shoulder and brag about how they got 3 walks in one game. Sound good?
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Nov 13, 2007 13:10:24 GMT -5
no, that rule is good. swing the fucking bats, you geeks!
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 13, 2007 13:17:48 GMT -5
You're right in that it will have a spirited debate, but softball should be a hitter's game. If you lower the arc, you are saying go to modified pitching. There are plenty of people who say that's easier to hit, but there's a reason that's considered more advanced. Plus, it will be tougher to find 4 pitchers who can do that effectively. My gut says there may be one or two, which really gives one team an enormous advantage.
I agree that looking for a walk is a horrible strategy. It's part of the game though. You might see MORE walks if you go modified because it will be harder to throw a strike.
I think the people in favor of this will likely be the best players. But I also think it will be harder on the lesser players.
You might be better off deepening the strike zone a bit. You would still make it tougher to draw a walk, but it wouldn't be as dramatic a change. I wouldn't change it THAT much, but just a little bit. It's supposed to be a hitter's game, not a pitcher's duel.
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Post by grover on Nov 13, 2007 13:53:42 GMT -5
I'm saying pitch the ball and swing. Unless the ball looks like it's curving enough to hit the guy on deck, there's no way someone should not swing. We're going to figure out the best way to fix that.
There were a ton of players over the years sitting on pitching that barely hit the front of home plate. I'm not Eddie Collins but I know if a pitch is that close to home I'm not going to go "Oh, let me get this walk." We have to do something. Do we want another ending to the Ultras/Wolftones like in 05? Do we want another walk and full count fest like this year? Does every at bat need to go to 3 balls and 2 strikes? No way.
In 06 we had the best year to date. MFIII/Goon Squad was probably the best game to date and Goon Squad/Hitmen had everyone on edge. If the rain wasn't coming down I'm sure Media Whores/Hitmen would have been better. How was it umped? Pitch the ball, have fun. Looking for a walk? Oh too bad, you're out. That's how it should be.
Bottom line is no one complained about the play in 06, yet people had to look for reasons to like this year, or just pretty much forced themselves to say they had fun when it was a shitshow.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 13, 2007 13:56:06 GMT -5
Slow arc is the only way to do this. There aren't enough good pitchers for modified.
And for the record, I am removing myself from any sort of captain consideration. A captain shouldn't be someone who lives 400 miles (and possibly 800 miles by game time) away and will only be there for the game. To be honest, no one should be a captain unless they make the practices and are very involved in the evaluation of the team. Those who cannot live up to that should bow out of a captain's position.
That is, unless you can trust another person implicitly to honestly evaluate the team.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 13, 2007 14:01:03 GMT -5
Sometimes in softball, people don't play the game right. It's annoying, but it's part of the game. The 05 walkfest was due to the line behind the plate being too close. Last year was actually very well done. People who were looking for walks did not get them because of a bad strike zone. They got them because the pitcher's lost the plate.
I hate walks in softball, and it's rare I walk unless it's on 4 pitches.
It's not meant to be a pitcher's duel. If you expand the strike zone too much, then pitchers don't have to throw strikes, and that is far worse than Evan walking.
Pitchers need to be held accountable for walks too.
I think the ump should have some discretion. I know this will never fly, at least not openly, but I would simply tell Marc to make a mental note of who is being a dick, and expand that person's strike zone.
It's tricky. If you see someone go through an at bat without taking the bat off the shoulder, and letting close pitches go by early in the count, cut the pitcher a break next time he's up and call some close pitches strikes. This way you don't punish the hitters that are there to hit for the few that aren't.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 13, 2007 14:13:50 GMT -5
Geez this debate is ridiculous....Just make it slow pitch arc or no arc....Most of the pitchers weren't legitmately arcing it anyways.......if it comes in flat and slow it is much easier to hit even for the novice players........Won't matter though arc or not Milton will still intentionally walk people robbing people of one of maybe the four at bats they get a year......LOL
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 13, 2007 14:14:40 GMT -5
Grover who is in charge here?
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Post by grover on Nov 13, 2007 14:15:21 GMT -5
The thing is, if we make it easier to throw a strike it might deter people from letting the pitches they SHOULD hit. The ones at the back aren't the problem, it's the hittable ones that were not swung at that are, and over the last few years I've seen too many of those.
Oh yeah, I want to kibosh intentional walks too.
I'm in charge.
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Nov 13, 2007 14:28:42 GMT -5
i have a solution. sounds like you want a competitive game. no more women allowed. and no more scrubs.
let the flame war begin.
we wont have a strike zone problem anymore. right? lol
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 13, 2007 14:32:36 GMT -5
Better yet just rule out all walks.....that solves the problem and everyone has to swing the bat.......
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 13, 2007 14:33:57 GMT -5
That's the thing--the pitching really wasn't the problem. There were just a few hitters. And this isn't even a big time debate. It's a pretty good conversation.
I agree 100 percent on the hittable pitches. I think that's why the ump's judgement needs to come into play. It's one thing to not swing at a bad pitch. It's another to get by walking by not swinging at the borderline pitches, and working 3-2 counts all the time. But I also think that's just a part of the game that you can't fix, without punishing the good hitters and rewarding bad pitchers. The best thing to do is to have Marc "get them."
I think intentional walks are also just a part of the game. That's like saying no walks at all or no called strikes. There's only one decent way to rid the intentional walk and I don't really like it for this tournament. It does get done in co-ed leagues to try to avoid walking a guy to get to the girl.
Basically, if you walk someone on four straight pitches, intentional or not, the batter gets two bases and the next batter has the option of either hitting, or just taking first base as a second walk.
I really don't think that such a rule is necessary in this game, and it will end up causing more trouble than it's worth.
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Post by grover on Nov 13, 2007 14:40:33 GMT -5
How about this:
How about the opposing team rip on the assholes fishing for walks? Anyone who fishes for a walk gets an egg smashed on their head at each base they reach.
Also, I don't see how lowering the arc will lead to fast pitches that people can't hit. We don't have Jennie Finch out there, even though I wish we did. We had flatter pitches in 06 and we had a great time.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 13, 2007 14:40:45 GMT -5
I say no walks at all but there are stike outs.......this way everyone has to hit their way on and there is no pressure on the ump to expand the zone as that is what will lead to disputes..............
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 13, 2007 14:43:48 GMT -5
Again, I really think going modified will actually lead to MORE walks and more Ks. It will be tougher on the lesser players.
No walks would be like making four outs. It's just not the game. More important, you'll have at least one asshole on every team not swinging at all and taking 15 pitch at bats, like that guy on Los Mets.
There is a difference between a guy who walks, and a guy who is intentionally trying to work counts and get that walk. We all know it when we see it.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 13, 2007 14:43:49 GMT -5
Two changes would make this game enjoyable for all (except Balls)
1. Plain slow pitch (can be flat or arc - up to the pitcher)
2. No walks but three swings only
Speeds the games up, no arguing about umps judgement about the zone etc....Balls you can have our ultra competitive stuff in the 4 leagues your in during the rest of the summer....
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Post by grover on Nov 13, 2007 14:48:21 GMT -5
I'm all for slow pitch. I don't see why a variation of flat and arc will mean that pitches will be bulleted toward the plate.
I also don't understand how that would lead to more walks since that wasn't the case last year.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 13, 2007 14:49:41 GMT -5
No walks is a terrible idea. And again, it will only encourage people to take 100 pitches. Three swings has always been the case. So that's not even a change. It won't speed anything up.
The pitching is something that isn't broken. There are just a couple of hitters that are being dicks when they bat. Grover's idea of ridicule is probably the best of them all. But in the absence of that, just make sure the home plate ump knows who these people are, and call a larger zone.
And for what it's worth, this game is far more competitive than any league I do, and those leagues are competitive. It's one day for me out of many.
The 100 year old rules of the game don't need to be changed because a few people like to walk.
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