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Post by grover on Nov 14, 2007 14:08:38 GMT -5
Justin: I have to be a dick. It's the only way to run this thing. No matter what you do there's always a handful of sops all pissy about one thing or another. You have to be able to go 'Hey listen, eat shit' and get what needs to be done.
As for 06 and 07, there were changes made between the two, and the main one was that Marc called the flat pitch and Shane didn't. We also had a great time in 06 instead of 07, because people looking to walk got exposed. K's were up but there was only one K looking, which was Andy. Baloo and Richie Krauss got Ked swinging because they panicked due to them leaving perfectly hittable flat pithes fall hoping it was a ball.
I wanted to bring up to the captains the differences in the years past and which way do we think is best to go about calling our pitches. Balls immediatly panicked and has been worried that he will not have a say and be shut out, and he has been moaning as if this change had already been made, when it has not.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2007 14:14:30 GMT -5
That's completely wrong. No panic at all. All I did was try to explain WHY going modified is a bad idea. In the end, if it goes that way, so be it. And again, if people didn't have fun in 07, it wasn't because of the pitching. There was nothing wrong with it, and there were not too many walks. It's VERY hard to throw a complete game without walking someone. The pitchers this year did a very good job, and only a few people were up there looking to work counts. But one thing is important, you're right--no changes have been made. It's silly to argue it. There's no point right now.
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Post by dabadguy on Nov 14, 2007 14:16:52 GMT -5
Well it's not up to you, so stop wasting our time trying to argue that it's a bad idea.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 14, 2007 14:18:46 GMT -5
Grover I think you not being "dick" enough.......
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2007 14:21:49 GMT -5
Mike--again, you're right. It's an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" thing for me. But you're right. It's not my call. I think I have one vote out of like 19, assuming no repeat captains.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 14, 2007 14:24:24 GMT -5
All the flat pitches weren't called in 07. Some were called, but not all. You have to trust the ump to move the game along. The three games were played in a reasonable amount of time. We had daylight at the end of the third game. 1:51 is unmanageable? Fucking please.
Folks....it's a day event. If you can't commit a day, then move along. Plenty of people to fill your spot.
And flat pitches are a mistake. People get used to a slow arc. Allowing flat pitches allows a change in velocity, and really...this is as rec league as it gets.
This whole thing about people not having fun this year, but they had fun in '06...ridiculous.
But it probably bears mentioning that the "un-fun" year of '07 was the first year Grover ran things.
You want credit? Take blame, too.
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Post by dabadguy on Nov 14, 2007 14:32:55 GMT -5
Grover, way to be the Joe Torre of this tourney!
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Post by Jason Giambi on Nov 14, 2007 14:33:27 GMT -5
why, he fell asleep
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Post by grover on Nov 14, 2007 14:42:14 GMT -5
Take blame for what? For the sake of doing so? It's not my fault that a handful of people want to play fucknut softball with league standards. The only thing I blame myself for was not being a good enough skipper.
Again, you and Balls keep saying it will be a mistake. How so? Seriously, how is it a mistake when the one time the ump didn't call flat pitches we had one of the funnest years ever? What proof are you guys bringing to the table?The only mistake is the one you two are making assuming that the only option is going from a rainbow to a bowling ball strike. What about expanding the strike zone a bit? There was more options I brought up and I wanted everyone to chip in with ideas. If nothing comes of it then we move on as usual and play like we usually do, hoping that the same characters don't fish for BB's again. It's the principle behind it more than speed of the game and number of walks. Walks are fine if the pitches are way off. If you see a team taking a nap at the plate then they are acting like assholes.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2007 14:54:15 GMT -5
It wasn't the pitching that made a year fun or not. In 2005, the line for the strike zone was too close to the plate. The solution was moving the line back. 2006 wasn't a good year to compare because every pitch was called a strike.
So yeah, I think if you want to cut down on walks, expanding the strike zone a bit is the better way to go. You keep the arc pitch, but move the line back, so it's easier to throw a strike. There were only 4 walks on the entire day aside from Jackass' line. I think that moving the line a little bit back will allow for more called strikes, without any radical change.
Don't confuse arc with rainbow. There's a MAXIMUM arc too. I think we are 6 feet to 12 feet, but another way to help hitters swing would be to cut that to 6 to 10 feet. That will make the pitches a little flatter and will accomplish more of what you're looking to do.
Expanding the strike zone by moving the line back is probably the most effective way to combat the looking to walk factor.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 14, 2007 15:09:10 GMT -5
K's were up but there was only one K looking, which was Andy. Baloo and Richie Krauss got Ked swinging because they panicked due to them leaving perfectly hittable flat pithes fall hoping it was a ball. Wow! Way to call people out!
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 14, 2007 15:18:30 GMT -5
Balls now your asking amateur umps (no offense King) to determine arc if it is 10ft or 12 ft. in addition to the strike zone duties...How hard is this just slow pitch and if the pitcher wants to put a little arc cause that is his style great if not who cares........
This thread is comical........you would think we got a group of ASA professionals here....
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Post by dabadguy on Nov 14, 2007 15:23:04 GMT -5
It's fucking Nov and Balls is trying to shake things up abt the tourney. You just can't let this go, can you? Get a hobby or something!
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2007 15:23:24 GMT -5
Marc is no amateur. He is the greatest ump there ever was. I can't believe you would go after him like that.
That said, your point is taken. Obviously he wouldn't be expected to have a perfect eagle eye. 10 feet would merely give him a little more leeway to call a pitch too high. In reality, we WANT slow pitch with a little arc, which is why the 6 foot minimum (about the height of the batter) is enough.
The most effective, realistic change, that would cut down on walks is simply moving the line back a little bit.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 14, 2007 15:25:43 GMT -5
This correlation of pitches to fun....really....I'm not seeing it.
To help you understand the difference by allowing flat pitches to be eligible to be called strikes, do this for me. Go hit 20 or 30 balls in a slow arc cage, then go find a little league 40 mph cage and try and hit 10. Then tell me how much fun you had and how much fun the once-a-year people will have.
'06 was more fun than '07, huh?
'06 - Grover was on winning team '07 - Grover was on team that got knocked out in first round
Go figure.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Nov 14, 2007 15:25:51 GMT -5
don't they put that plastic thing around the plate and if the ball lands on that, it's a strike?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 14, 2007 15:27:21 GMT -5
But it has to break the plane....or something.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 14, 2007 15:28:27 GMT -5
Balls nice try..Marc knows I appreciate his efforts and he did a great job. I made a point in fact to make sure I told him so that day. It is just a matter of the umpires being in the same postion as many of the players, it is the one time a year they do this.....
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2007 15:30:00 GMT -5
Pete--we don't have the plastic thing, but that's the general guideline. We basically just draw a line in the dirt and use the plate for width purposes. The ump has some discretion, though it's a pretty clear strike zone which is good all around. Obviously the further back the line is, the easier it is to throw a strike.
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Post by grover on Nov 14, 2007 15:58:24 GMT -5
Yeah, because in 2006 we saw nothing but 40mph pitches right? The Goon Squad prevailed because Big Joe had the dope cork screw wind up. Milton lost control because he couldn't top the radar gun. Give me a break.
Fine, you know what, forget I bought it up. Balls, you can untwist your panties now. You've got your 'flat pitches made everyone have a shitty day' argument back.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 14, 2007 16:07:02 GMT -5
The funny part is flat pitches are easier to hit so how does it make people look shitty? ??
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Post by grover on Nov 14, 2007 16:10:52 GMT -5
Because they do. Every flat pitch ever thrown has been thrown at 40mph or greater. That's why everyone 'had such a bad day at the plate' in 06.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 14, 2007 16:11:01 GMT -5
You've missed the point entirely, Grover.
If you allow flat pitches, then some pitchers will go from lofting arcs to throwing in the occasional faster flat pitch. No one is going to blow the doors off anyone, but allowing the pitchers to do that doesn't make a whole lot of sense in a game of this caliber. I don't know why the idea of changing timing from pitch to pitch can have a huge effect on things, given your many hours of softball experience.
And no one said flat pitches made everyone had a shitty day. Who exactly had a shitty day this year? Who is saying, "Holy shit, that sucked! Change it or I'm leaving!!!!!"
It seems like you want to change things because you (I guess) can. And there really isn't anything from last year that indicates things need to be changed.
And remember, this is all opinion. Anyone has a right to express their opinion, regardless of whether or not it agrees with yours.
And Captain wants flat pitches because he knows he'll rock every last one of them 300 feet.
By the way, '06 was better than '07 because it wasn't so fucking hot in '06.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 14, 2007 16:16:04 GMT -5
Justin I could care either way as I can hit both but I have yet to see anyone throw 40 mph that we play with. When I say flat or lob I mean like when we have our weekday scrimmages the same pitching. Also I maybe can hit it 300 feet but when the outfielders are playing 310 feet away I ain't trying (and that was the case last year)...
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 14, 2007 16:18:48 GMT -5
Christ....I only said 40 mph because that's the slowest flat pitch cage I know of.
Hey listen...go with flat pitches. Why not. And shorten the base paths, too, so everyone has a chance to score! And girls and Evan get 5 strikes.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 14, 2007 16:19:14 GMT -5
I say 05 was the best year!!!!!!!
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 14, 2007 16:20:16 GMT -5
And girls and Evan get 5 strikes.
Now that's funny..
For my age and shape I am all for shortening the bases though I only have to walk due to Milton's intentional walks..LOL
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 14, 2007 16:23:23 GMT -5
How about three bases on an overthrow?
And let's make it easier on the pitchers, because obviously there shouldn't be any accountability there for ALL OF THOSE 8 WALKS. How about only 1 strike? That way they only have to throw one arc pitch over the plate! That should solve it.
And in the 4th inning, let's put a home plate at first, that way a single scores a run every time!
Come on! Let's change the rules! Because we can!!!!!
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Post by grover on Nov 14, 2007 16:25:22 GMT -5
Actually, Balls has said that countless times since 06. He went on about it every few days before last years game and bent over backward to make sure we were going by league standards, which I have no problem with. I have no problem with high arc.
'Everyone had a shitty day at the plate' was the same song he sung, yet all it was is a veiled excuse to his teams performance. This year's 14-0 blowout 'was a good game' but the 5-1 championship game last year wasn't because he thinks his team suffered due to the flat pitch. 'Everyone had a shitty day at the plate' is another way of saying 'The Hitmen would have won if Shane called the flat pitch.'
And YOU'RE missing the point. The idea wasn't to just go flat and let people gun it, it was maybe lower the arc or maybe expand the strike zone a bit, or leaving it as is. If someone had a better idea, I was game to hear it. Don't worry, it won't come up again, especially since things are perfect.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 14, 2007 16:35:23 GMT -5
Hey, all I know is you say now that '06 was one of the "funnest years ever". You had so much fun that you felt things were shitty enough to where you had to take over. It's just contradictory, that's all.
- '07 was worse than '06 because the championship was a blowout - The game was a blowout because the losing team was worse than the winning team - '06 was better because it wasn't brutally hot - '06 was funnest year EVAR because Grover was on winning team yaaayyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!11!!!!11!!!!!one
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