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Post by mac0822 on Jan 19, 2007 10:31:21 GMT -5
$3 million. That's nothing. What's wrong with a Pena/Nixon platoon? The guy is a rare real man on this roster.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 19, 2007 10:44:03 GMT -5
Nixon was a gamer, thats just fact. And he left an impression, enough to where Gang Bang Steve, a Yankee fan of the highest order, unabashadly called himself a fan of the guy. And I always found the guy a true pain in the ass, and thats a compliment.
Its a loss for the Red Sox. Not sure of their thinking there.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Jan 19, 2007 10:48:51 GMT -5
They let Damon go, why would they think differently with Nixon....... He is a gamer.....
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 19, 2007 13:15:48 GMT -5
Here's the thing then...
Sometimes teams just aren't that smart. They see a free agent, and throw lots of money at him. But they don't think "what else could I get with the same money?"
Mac is right about one thing here--$3 million is nothing.
What could Nixon reasonably be expected to do in a full season with Boston?
The intangibles alone may be worth the $3 million based on today's market.
But stats wise, Nixon is only 33, he's not exactly ready to hang em up. That's middle aged for an MLB player. It's not unreasonable to ask a healthy Trot Nixon to put up his 2005 numbers. .275/14/67.
Drew's career average is .286. So let's be nice and give him that. Despite what some people think, Drew is not some major power hitter. If he hits 20 HR, that's a solid year for him.
He's only driven in 100 runs once in his career.
He's also injury prone and has a "me first" attitude.
But let's give him .286/20/100.
Is 11 points on the average, 6 HR, and 33 RBI worth an extra $12 million in 2007 alone? Not to mention that Drew would have an extra 4 years on his contract.
Who else could Boston have got for that $12 million? Hell, they could have left Drew alone and gone for BONDS. I hate Bonds, but he will likely be more productive than Drew, and sure as hell wouldn't cost them $70 million and 5 years.
Could they have used part of that $12 million to sign a lesser free agent that could help make up those 6 HRs and 33 RBI? Probably. Hell, they could get 3 relievers for that money.
Lots could have been done.
Bottom line, JD Drew is not 5X the player Nixon is. Makes little sense.
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Post by 9 on Jan 19, 2007 13:45:50 GMT -5
Mac is absolutely right.
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Post by jwmcc on Jan 19, 2007 14:11:27 GMT -5
"Drew is not some major power hitter. If he hits 20 HR, that's a solid year for him."
He's hit 27 and 31 HR's within the last six years, respectively. Jw
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 19, 2007 14:13:21 GMT -5
And he hit 18, 15, and 15 HRs in that same 6 year span.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 19, 2007 14:14:57 GMT -5
And he averages out to 27 per 533 at-bats through his career.
Nice number downgrading, Balls, you jerk.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 19, 2007 14:22:41 GMT -5
Except that he does NOT average 27 HRs because he does NOT average 533 at bats a season.
You're the one who is number upgrading,Tom, you plebeian.
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Post by Chris on Jan 19, 2007 14:24:44 GMT -5
If someone on this message board claimed a player had a .315 lifetime batting average, Jw's reply would be:
"John Doe was a lifetime .315 hitter"
John Doe - .3149989980988979878979879876876876987
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Post by 9 on Jan 19, 2007 14:32:01 GMT -5
JW's livelihood is based on accuracy.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 19, 2007 14:42:21 GMT -5
And, Cho, there is quite a difference in 20 and 30 home runs. Drew is closer to a 30 HR a year guy than a 20 HR a year guy. Thank God for guys like JW keeping idiots like Balls from fudging numbers.
Balls, you are a huge Baseball-Reference.com mark - this is where I am getting Drew's "average number" breakdown. Why dont you write them a letter complaining?
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Post by jwmcc on Jan 19, 2007 15:06:00 GMT -5
I'm not even a big JD Drew fan or anything, but alot of these posts sound like wishful thinking that DRew will be a huge failure when in fact he might turn into another Yankee killer. Jw
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 19, 2007 15:49:56 GMT -5
Tom--I know where you're getting the numbers, but that particular stat doesn't mean much. It's just proportioning it.
Remember how Ron Hassey used to platoon with Wynegar? Baseball-reference uses that same stat you used, and gives him 468 ABs in a season. But he never got even close to that. Besides, we both know that Hassey platooned for a reason because had he hit full time, his numbers would have dropped.
True, Drew is not a platoon player, but the logic is similar. You can't say Drew will typically hit 27 HRs, because he never does that.
JD Drew has NEVER had 533 ABs in a year, so any stat that involves that is not really accurate.
Proportioning out stats is one of the stupidest and least accurate things to do when talking about a player. JD Drew would likely take a full season, plus April of the next season to get to those baseball-reference numbers.
No one is saying Drew may not turn into a Yankee killer. But you could say that about ANY player. Just by going with what Drew has done in the past, he has NOT proven he is worth even close to what he is getting.
He is NOT 5 times better than Nixon. He is NOT worth $15 million, even in today's market.
At best, he will put up solid numbers worthy of a starting player. But he will not exactly be putting up all star numbers.
Even if he played 162 games, and did those averages, his salary is ridiculous. And that has NEVER happened.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 19, 2007 15:58:01 GMT -5
In a full season Drew would put up great numbers. Bottom line.
We'll revisit this over the course of the season, I am sure.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 19, 2007 16:01:49 GMT -5
There's no way of knowing that because in about 8 years, the jerk has NEVER played a full season. If he were posting on this board, I bet the legendary poet Leaping Lanny Poffo would have this to say: JD Drew can chew my poo. He was a genius.
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Post by 9 on Jan 19, 2007 16:37:27 GMT -5
A modern-day Walt Whitman ... only different.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 19, 2007 18:46:05 GMT -5
So Balls says...But stats wise, Nixon is only 33, he's not exactly ready to hang em up. That's middle aged for an MLB player. It's not unreasonable to ask a healthy Trot Nixon to put up his 2005 numbers. .275/14/67.
I find this amusing, especially the "a healthy" part. Cause practically at the same time he is ripping Drew for not staying healthy, and discounting any arguments the other side places for "a healthy Drew." Also, if you want to talk stats wise, instead of the "only 33" bullcrap, lets look at the fact he has only hit 27 home runs in his last 838 at bats. And talk about injury prone! He has not played over 134 games since 2002!
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 19, 2007 19:08:26 GMT -5
The difference is that Nixon has not been injury prone throughout his career.
There is no such thing as a healthy Drew.
I'm not making up stats for Nixon that never happened. I'm going for reasonable stats based on the changes he's had. The 2005 Nixon is not unreasonable.
More important, they aren't giving Nixon $15 million.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 19, 2007 19:27:28 GMT -5
The difference is that Nixon has not been injury prone throughout his career.
Ah, you may want to look that up, chief. Nixon has been injury ravaged the last 4 years, and there are still as many questions about his future health as there are with Drew. And, again, as a fan of the YANKEES, you have no right to question anyone about money.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 19, 2007 20:50:48 GMT -5
And again, I'm also not trying to pretend that Nixon is going to have a career year. To expect his 2005 performance is NOT unreasonable.
The difference between the questions about Nixon and Drew is about $12 million.
And it's contracts like the Drew contract that are responsible for what's wrong with baseball.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 20, 2007 19:49:27 GMT -5
And it's contracts like the Drew contract that are responsible for what's wrong with baseball.
No, its the bulk of the 25 contracts that the Yankees pay their roster every season that is wrong with baseball. In case you forgot, here are some numbers to chew on - 200 million dollar payroll, and an average payroll that is almost 35% larger than that of the 2nd most generous team on an annual basis.
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Post by globix on Jan 20, 2007 21:03:18 GMT -5
what's the payroll look like for next year? It's gotta be well below $200 mil with all the departures.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 21, 2007 19:34:28 GMT -5
The Yanks only pay the going rate set by other teams.
And the reason the Yanks payroll is so much higher is because the other teams pocket their money rather than invest in their teams. As you can see, that changed a bit in the offseason--except that the other teams spent foolishly.
Either way, the idea that the Yanks are what's wrong with baseball is stupid.
The Yanks didn't spend $15 million a year for FIVE years on JD Drew, who doesn't play full seasons very often.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 26, 2007 10:19:52 GMT -5
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 26, 2007 11:16:19 GMT -5
It doesn't hurt them either. Drew is simply not worth the money he's getting, and it's possible that this may tie the Red Sox funds up down the road for someone that could help them more.
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Post by globix on Jan 26, 2007 14:46:03 GMT -5
Apparently Drew is dyslexic. According to baseball-reference.com, J.D. is short for David Jonathan.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 26, 2007 15:10:01 GMT -5
Also according to baseball-reference.com, Tom and I sponsor the page of Claudell Washington.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 27, 2007 17:19:17 GMT -5
From MLB.COM....this would be horrible news for the Yankees.
GREELEY, Colo. -- Rockies CEO Charlie Monfort acknowledged on Saturday that he is exploring the financial ramifications of a proposed trade that would send first baseman Todd Helton to the Red Sox.
The Denver Post reported on its Web site that the Rockies could be interested in a pair of pitching prospects, reliever Manny Delcarmen, 24, and 2005 first-round pick Craig Hansen. The Rocky Mountain News reported that the Red Sox proposed sending third baseman Mike Lowell and right-hander Julian Tavarez. ESPN.com reported that Sox veteran pitcher Matt Clement would have to be included. FoxSports.com identified Triple-A center fielder Jacob Ellsbury as a target of the Rockies.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 27, 2007 18:22:57 GMT -5
Helton's numbers are overblown because of a career in Colorado.
Not to mention, his power and average numbers have declined dramatically over the past 2 years.
Sure, hitting .302 is damn good, but when you have a career average of .330, it's a hell of a drop.
Get him out of Colorado, and it's very possible he will fall off the map.
That said, he's still a good ballplayer, and it's certainly a deal to consider for Boston, but sorry, Todd Helton is not what he was, and will not singlehandedly make up 10 games in the standings.
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