MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 30, 2007 14:07:20 GMT -5
I understand the point very well. But I don't think Milledge is done by a long shot, and I don't think this is a good deal for the Mets. Milledge was the 9th ranked prospect in all of baseball in 2006. He's the kind of guy you trade for a superduperstar.
And yes, I understand that if you're going to give up a guy like Hughes, Santana is the kind of guy you do it for.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 30, 2007 14:10:33 GMT -5
Milledge was the 9th ranked prospect in all of baseball in 2006
Huh??
By who?
Even if it was BA, its all speculation at that point in his career.
And dont downgrade Ryan Church. He had a better year than Melky Cabrera, for example, who you consider a star.
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Post by massyanksfan on Nov 30, 2007 14:13:22 GMT -5
Maybe the 9th ranked prospect with the last name Millegde.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 30, 2007 14:16:55 GMT -5
It was Baseball America.
And I haven't said Melky is an all star. Just a good player. It's a good deal for the Nationals if Milledge does what his potential calls for him to do.
It's a surprising deal from the Mets though. I'm sure they had better offers for him in the past, and he's the kind of prospect you use for a superduperstar, not for a Melky type.
Melky is a very good player, but he's not an all star.
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Post by Furious D on Nov 30, 2007 14:33:32 GMT -5
I think this will be a decent trade for both sides. The Mets get the catcher with the best CS% in the NL last year, while the Nats get a player with a ton of upside. Also, Church will be a solid, yet unspectacular Outfielder.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 30, 2007 15:29:37 GMT -5
If Milledge lives up to even 70% of his potential this is a good deal for the Nats........Gonna be funny to see where Omar is going to pull pitching from with another "chip" gone? ?
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 30, 2007 15:30:37 GMT -5
Good point. Milledge was one of his best trading chips. I'm really surprised that he settled for this package.
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Post by Domi on Nov 30, 2007 15:48:03 GMT -5
Schneider is a horrible offensive player, his CS% doesn't even come close to making up for that. I'd feel sorry for the Mets if I wasn't so giddy about this silly trade.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 30, 2007 20:32:32 GMT -5
This puts it in more viable perspective. Culled from mlb.com - thanks to em.
Mutts are more interested in the D that Schneider brings along. Makes sense...we did the same, with Joltin' Joe Girardi-o. Oh, and see what I highlighted, which shows his offensive numbers to actually be comparable to the man he is replacing, Paul "Disco Inferno" LoDuca.
Also, while the Mutts seemingly acknowledge parting with a past chip in Milledge, their claim that they still have heaps of chips for future dealings and are still able to stay in the market for top notch talent sort of shrugs that pesky problem away.
Milledge had been a key figure in trade talks that the Mets had with the Red Sox, involving Manny Ramirez in 2005, and with Orioles and Astros, involving Roy Oswalt, in 2006. And he was usually the odd man out when club executives spoke of a future outfield of Fernando Martinez in left, Beltran in center and Carlos Gomez in right. Their presence prompted Minaya to say he had "a surplus of outfielders."
Milledge remains highly regarded because of his quick bat. But he wasn't as good a fit as Church for the Mets -- at least for 2008 and perhaps '09 -- because he bats right-handed. With Schneider, a left-handed hitter, catching and Church playing right field, the Mets now can have three switch-hitters (Jose Reyes, Luis Castillo and Beltran), two right-handed hitters (David Wright and Moises Alou) and three left-handed hitters (Carlos Delgado and the two new men) in their most regular lineup.
Church's presence will also allow the Mets to use Endy Chavez in the role in which he is most effective, a No. 4 outfielder, to rest Alou against some right-handed pitchers and afford Gomez -- if he isn't included in a package for a starting pitcher -- more time to develop. Moreover, Church could replace Alou in left field in 2009 and play the position in Queens until Martinez has developed.
At the same time, Schneider, who turned 31 on Wednesday, is ideally suited to share the catching with right-handed-hitting reserve Ramon Castro. His presence and left-handed bat will enhance Castro's place on the roster, not to mention improve the Mets' defense up the middle and against the run.
"I'm big on defense up the middle," Minaya said. And he considers the Mets' catching "situation" as good as "any in the game."
The two-for-one deal came after sources in Mets management said that the timing of a trade for a starting pitcher might interfere with the club's pursuit for a catcher in that the club wanted to retain its primary trading chips to fill the void at the front of its rotation. But judging from their conversations with other clubs, the Mets concluded that other players, particularly Gomez and Minor League pitcher Kevin Mulvey, were more coveted by other clubs than Milledge.
"We called the clubs we've been talking to to ask if this trade would hurt our chances [of dealing for a pitcher]," Minaya said. "They said, 'No' -- we still have enough players in our system to complete other deals."
A package including Gomez and one of the younger pitchers still could import lefty Erik Bedard from the Orioles or righty Dan Haren from the A's. Minaya said he intends not to involve Church in trade talks.
Bedard and Haren are the two highest-profile pitchers the Mets seemingly have a chance to acquire. Twins ace Johan Santana appears to cost more than the Mets are willing to pay in overall talent and more than their resources in young talent.
The Mets have far less interest in Joe Blanton of the A's, though they have a stated need for an innings eater in the wake of Tom Glavine's departure. Bedard or Haren could become the Mets' No. 1 starter. Blanton, a Bobby Jones-type pitcher in terms of results and how he pitches, would fit well in the middle of the rotation.
Because of Friday's trade, whichever pitchers the Mets do acquire will have a highly regarded defensive receiver. Schneider is a definite upgrade behind the plate over Estrada, who was acquired in a trade with the Brewers on Nov. 20. Schneider is also 5 1/2 years younger than Paul Lo Duca, the man he replaces. Beyond that, he is signed through 2009. Estrada has no contract for 2008 and is eligible for arbitration. The Mets will likely non-tender Estrada on Dec. 12, unless another club is intent on acquiring him and makes the Mets an offer before the deadline for tendering contracts.
Schneider is precisely the kind of catcher Minaya and manager Willie Randolph had coveted, one who is concerned most with the pitching staff and the game at hand. He has started between 105 and 125 games since the beginning of the 2004 season.
"I like to work with the pitchers and have them work the game plan," Schneider said.
He has produced remarkable numbers throwing out would-be base stealers -- 63 caught stealing against 60 steals in 2003 and '04 combined. He threw out 24 of 77 would-be base stealers last season, and, beginning in 2003, 40 percent of 363 runners. Even with that drop in percentage, Schneider still may be the Mets' best throwing catcher since the early years of Todd Hundley's career -- 1990-93.
Schneider's offensive production, while not eye-catching, is quite comparable to that of Lo Duca. Schneider has averaged 12.9 RBIs per 100 at-bats over the last three seasons. Lo Duca, playing his last two seasons with the Mets' more productive batting order, averaged 11.4 RBIs per 100 at-bats from 2005-07. Schneider, likely to bat eighth for the Mets, hit 20 home runs in 1,187 at-bats the last three seasons, and Lo Duca hit 20 in 1,402 at-bats. Neither played his home games in a park conducive to home run hitting.
Church, 29, doesn't appear to have as high a ceiling as Milledge, but he is more accomplished than the player who is to be the Nationals' center fielder in 2008 and beyond. Church, eligible for arbitration as a Super 2, had 59 extra-base hits -- 43 doubles and 15 home runs -- and drove in 70 runs in 470 at-bats last season.
Milledge has 30 extra-base hits, including 11 home runs, and 50 RBIs in 350 big league at-bats during two years of intermittent big league play. Projections for a full season for Milledge, based on previous production, yield numbers quite similar to those Church produced last season, when he batted .272 with a .349 on-base percentage and a .464 slugging percentage.
Projected across 493 at-bats, Milledge would score 58 runs to Church's 57, hitting 15 home runs and driving in 72 runs while batting .257, slugging .414 and reaching base at a .326 clip.
And Minaya said that Church "still has upside."
Church started 126 games for the Nationals, 87 in left field and 39 in center. He has started 133 in left, 95 in center and 27 in right during his career. But he said that he is equally comfortable in any of the three positions. The Mets consider Church's defense in right to be an upgrade over what Xavier Nady and Shawn Green provided during the last three years. Church may provide the best defense in right field the Mets have had in decades -- other than when Chavez has played there and when Mike Cameron started in right in 2005.
Milledge became involved in "situations" with the Mets because of a rap recording this past season and because of reporting late, on-field celebrating and creating strained relations with some teammates in 2006. Minaya said that none of that hastened the trade.
"Did he make mistakes? Yes, he made mistakes," Minaya said. "I don't know if I'd call it baggage."
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 30, 2007 20:54:40 GMT -5
LoDuca had 30 more hits, and hit 40 points higher. LoDuca struck out 33 times in 445 ABs.
Schneider struck out 56 times in 408 ABs.
Both had 28 extra base hits, but LoDuca had more HRs.
Yes, he's comparable to LoDuca in some categories, but no spin will change this is an offensive downgrade for the Mets. And they lost one of their best prospects.
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Post by Furious D on Nov 30, 2007 22:14:59 GMT -5
"LoDuca had 30 more hits, and hit 40 points higher. LoDuca struck out 33 times in 445 ABs."
Schneider had 56 walks to Loduca's 24. Schneider had a .326 OBP compared to Loduca's .311. The comparison game can go on and on in favor of whmever you want to make look better. The bottom line is if you are going to downgrade offense at a position in favor of defense, catcher is a place to do it. Schneider is going to be the #8 hitter. The Mets aren't looking for a catcher to carry the lineup.
There does seem to be a pattern here. Both Loduca and Milledge brought a lot of tension to the clubhouse. Maybe it's addition by subtraction.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 30, 2007 22:34:53 GMT -5
Balls, did you not read the story? This was about defense. If the Mutts wanted offense, they would have looked to have Johnny Estrada hold the job. They are rushing him out of town as quickly as he came.
Its hilarious that when I threw a rip on Posada's defense some jumped to his aid by pointing out his ability to "call a game." Read up on Schneider, there are few who are as take-charge as he. As Dan the man pointed out, Schneider is being bought on to hit in the EIGHT HOLE. Read the quotes - they want his DEFENSE!
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 30, 2007 22:47:22 GMT -5
I just think Omar did not want Milledge and LoDuca back in the locker room...I agree Schneider is better defensively but when you could have signed LoDuca for nothing and still keep Milledge to rehibilitate his trade value )or use him for pitching) just doesn't make sense to me. It is not like they can trade Estrada and get something useful for him......
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 30, 2007 23:01:42 GMT -5
Cap, AGAIN, the Mutts said losing Milledge does not diminish the chips they have to wield to bring in some superstardom. And their outfield of the future can still be prospects surrounding Beltran, with Milledge expendable. And they WANTED Schneider, for better or worse. They wanted that defense. The trade makes sense, but cause its the Mutts everyone is quick to pile on.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 1, 2007 7:17:02 GMT -5
I think Ryan Church will be Larry's new favorite player and a Met he can cheer for.....
One interesting thing in Church's history is that, according to a story in the Washington Post, he had to apologize for a 2005 controversy coming from published remarks about a conversation between him and a team chaplain regarding Jews not believing in Jesus and being "doomed."
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Post by Domi on Dec 1, 2007 13:48:26 GMT -5
LOL @ Tom defending the trade of a top prospect for someone with a 77 OPS+.
Milledge's expected value over the next 5 years is $64,825,000.
The combination of Schneider and Church is $46,350,000.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 1, 2007 14:03:38 GMT -5
Quite simply I dont think Milledge is going to live up to that expectation.
Hey, dont get me wrong, the trade made my eyebrow hunch. But after reading into the Mutts thinking, makes a bit more sense to me. They have a plan. I hope it implodes, as I hope all the Mutt plans do. And its true enough that if you told me 2 years ago Milledge would be swapped for Schneider and Church at any stage of their careers, I would have pilloried you.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 2, 2007 18:01:15 GMT -5
LOL @ this, in reference to the post about Church's comments regarding Jews.
An article in Sunday's paper about Baseball Chapel quoted Church as saying that he had turned to Moeller for advice about his former girlfriend, who was Jewish. "I said, like, Jewish people, they don't believe in Jesus. Does that mean they're doomed? Jon nodded, like, that's what it meant. My ex-girlfriend! I was like, man, if they only knew. Other religions don't know any better. It's up to us to spread the word," Church said.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 2, 2007 18:39:23 GMT -5
Thank goodness for the Mets that the majority of Hispanics are Catholic/Christians so there should be no problem with Church....
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Post by massyanksfan on Dec 4, 2007 14:09:33 GMT -5
Any one catch the story on John Maine being a cross dresser?
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Post by ajfreakz on Dec 9, 2007 22:53:14 GMT -5
The Mets are interested in a Jeff Fassero comeback. They reportedly had scouts watch him throw, and will monitor him as the pitches in the Mexican winter league. watch out for the mets in 08'.. are you serious omar
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Post by Jason Giambi on Dec 9, 2007 23:54:12 GMT -5
Any one catch the story on John Maine being a cross dresser? I once saw Jeff Gordon making out behind the bowling alley with Mike Piazza
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Feb 7, 2008 15:47:00 GMT -5
Wayne Hagin is expected to be announced next week as Tom McCarthy's successor as Mets radio voice alongside Howie Rose. Hagin has called games for the Rockies and Cardinals. He once got himself in trouble for implying Colorado first baseman Todd Helton used steroids.
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Post by kingdzbws on Feb 8, 2008 15:12:59 GMT -5
Some quotes boggle the mind..... PEDRO MARTINEZ: "I understand that people are upset, but that is part of our Dominican culture and is legal in the Dominican Republic, I was invited by my idol, Juan Marichal, to attend the event as a spectator, not as a participant."BUT NEW EVIDENCE IS UNEARTHED!!
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Post by thecaptain15 on Mar 12, 2008 13:35:55 GMT -5
Coco Crisp is a Met....
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 14, 2008 7:25:05 GMT -5
I haven't seen an article on this anywhere, and he's still on the Red Sox site.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 15, 2008 22:34:30 GMT -5
Billy Wagner rips teammates for ducking media after lossMight things already be starting to fracture in a Mets clubhouse that's disappointed with their ho-hum start? Billy Wagner seemed a bit upset at a few of his teammates after today's 1-0 loss to Washington, a game the Mets dropped after the inconsistent Mike Pelfrey brought a no-hitter into the seventh.
Since it's coming from a closer who never met a prickly quote he didn't like, we'll have to consider the source. But Wagner's issue, according to the NY Daily News, was with other teammates ducking questions in the postgame locker room while leaving other teammates to answer for them.
(Wagner) looked over toward the area of Carlos Delgado’s locker and blurted: “Someone tell me why the (expletive) you’re talking to the closer. I didn’t even play. They’re over there, not being interviewed. … I got it. They’re gone. (Expletive) shocker.”
At 20-19 and only 2.5 games behind the Marlins, the Mets could be in a much worse position. But lose 4 of 7 in a homestand against two last-place teams in the Reds and Nats, and you can see where things might start to get a bit testy. Willie Randolph has some work to do. sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Billy-Wagner-rips-teammates-for-ducking-media-af?urn=mlb,82714
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 26, 2008 17:36:15 GMT -5
Well, I'm just glad he's THEIR problem. I know a lot of Mutt fans who are very unhappy about this, and want his head.
Randolph to remain manager of Mets Job security not an issue in skipper's meeting with ownership
mlb.com
NEW YORK -- Countering a slew of questions regarding manager Willie Randolph's job security after a meeting with Mets ownership on Monday, general manager Omar Minaya made it clear during a pregame press conference that Randolph will remain the manager.
The meeting with the Wilpons and the ownership group was prompted by comments Randolph made to the Bergen Record speculating as to whether race had anything to do with the treatment he had received from the New York media. Randolph said the meeting gave him a chance to explain himself, and Minaya said the owners were accepting of the manager's apology.
But as Randolph shrugged his shoulders and left the press conference, reminding the press corps amid the questions that he actually had a game to coach vs. the Marlins, Minaya reiterated that he hopes Randolph will be the coach through the rest of his contract, which ends after next season.
"I think I told you guys on Friday," Minaya said. "Willie has my support, he has the support of our ownership and Willie's job was never in danger going into the season." Minaya said the meeting was mainly to discuss last week's comments about Randolph's portrayal on Mets broadcasts in which he raised the issue of race and how "we are going to find a way to play better baseball."
Monday marks the beginning of a seven-game homestand after a disappointing road stretch where the Mets lost six of their last seven against the Braves and Rockies. Losing, Minaya said, especially for a team that was projected by many news outlets to be tops in the National League, only drives speculation into what Minaya said has never changed.
Randolph is the manager -- period -- and the players should know that.
"There is no limbo period. Willie is the manager," Minaya said. "When you don't win, it's tough in this town."
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Post by MSBNYY on May 26, 2008 19:02:07 GMT -5
I'm not really following this except for the fact that the Mets losing makes me happy. What exactly is the complaint about WILLIE?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 26, 2008 20:19:03 GMT -5
Come on, now.
First off, he should have been fired immediatly after that stunning choke last year. There have long been grumblings that he can not control his lockerroom, he is a terrible decision-maker, and has no respect from his own team.
Add to this his ridiculous griping about "racism" and the teams television network and how they treat him, and the guy is bonkers. He has become a laughing stock, and needs to go. The fact the Mutts are keeping him around speaks badly for all involved.
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