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Post by Chris on Jan 14, 2009 13:27:32 GMT -5
I'm not saying Morris is a slam dunk.
I'm saying that the personal accolades in much fewer starts are more impressive for Morris.
I'm saying it's arguable as to who is more HOF worthy, but my own opinion leans toward Morris.
You're the one who insinuated, with your double LOLs, that the idea of Morris over Blyleven is downright laughable.
Even though you're being grouchy, I'm still up for signing the petition to get you the Hecklehouse's HOF vote!
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 14, 2009 13:30:49 GMT -5
Blyleven>Morris. The ERAs are too much different. Morris also played on better teams. Blyleven had a lower ERA and lost 250 games. Had he been on the Tigers at that time, he should easily have got to 300.
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Post by Chris on Jan 14, 2009 13:30:59 GMT -5
BTW - I agree about the Ks.
But again, 4 fewer years, 160 fewer starts for Morris, and a similar ERA....so although Blyleven stuck out more they were about as effective in that regard (and yes, I know the inferior team that Blyleven played on may have much to do with the inflated ERA). But also Tom, morris did have 2500 Ks....so it's not like he's a slouch in that department.
That said, reviewing the Blyleven footage last night - the curve was absolutely filthy.
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Post by Chris on Jan 14, 2009 13:34:31 GMT -5
Balls has spoken.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 14, 2009 13:37:29 GMT -5
But they didn't have a similar ERA. 3.90 compared to 3.31 is a pretty significant difference.
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Post by Chris on Jan 22, 2009 13:04:44 GMT -5
In five years Mike Mussina, Greg Maddux, and Jeff Kent will all be eligible together.
I don't think this bodes well for Mussina's chances as a first balloter.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 22, 2009 13:15:53 GMT -5
I dont think Mike Mussina's career bodes well for his chances as a first balloter.
Oh, and dont forget, unless they find work or get healthy others that may join that class include Tom Glavine, Ken Griffey Jr, Pudge Rodriguez, Frank Thomas, Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, and Barry Bonds.
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Post by Chris on Jan 22, 2009 13:21:28 GMT -5
Could there POSSIBLY be an induction class with that many guys:
Glavine, Griffey Jr., Maddux, Kent, Pudge, and Pedro all seem like first round locks to me.
SIX guys?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 22, 2009 13:23:54 GMT -5
You're forgetting Bonds. Forget the hearsay, he'll get in. In fact, on "floater ballots" sent out to the current class of voters, he grades really high.
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Post by 9 on Jan 22, 2009 13:28:07 GMT -5
"Floater" perfectly describes what I think anyone who votes for Bonds did with their vote.
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Post by nobeernofun on Jan 22, 2009 13:40:13 GMT -5
Curt Schilling, and Barry Bonds did not play last year. so they will be on the ballots a year before the rest. Frank Thomas didn't reup with the A's ? Jeff Cunt's going in as a Giant, Right. A nother Great Met tread. LOL
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Post by Chris on Jan 22, 2009 13:47:53 GMT -5
Bonds will suffer the same fate as McGwire, at least in the first few years.
No way in hell does Bonds get in on the first round.
Remember, although he has not officially failed a test, there isn't a greater collection of circumstantial evidence indicating doping in all of sports.
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Post by Chris on Jan 22, 2009 13:48:52 GMT -5
They didn't play last year, but don't you have to officially retire before the 5 year clock starts ticking?
Neither of them have.
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Post by nobeernofun on Jan 22, 2009 14:01:18 GMT -5
I don't think Rickey ever officially retired. As he is still wanting to play if a team wood give him a chance. He was saying the other day. BTW what tipe of Jack Ass did not vote for Henderson ?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 22, 2009 14:25:52 GMT -5
Pops is right, clock just ticks on when your career stopped. Once you hit 5, you are eligible.
Bonds will get in first ballot, again, unless something breaks between now and then, polls of voters show he's safe for it. He still has not been caught doing anything wrong and never failed a test. BIG difference between his career and Mark McGwire's.....forget the allegations, Bonds enters conversations of the best player EVER.
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Post by Chris on Jan 22, 2009 15:15:35 GMT -5
Tom, if you listen to most sportswriters who have been on the MLB Network, particularly Tom Verducci, who I like....
The consensus is that sportswriters really hung owners out to dry, accusing them of doing nothing, turning a blind eye, while knowing full well that steroids ran rampant in major league locker rooms. The sportswriters now, in large part, feel almost compelled to not be hypocritical, and act on what amounts to volumes of evidence of doping.
While McGwire is no Bonds, his numbers are first-ballot HOF worthy easily.....and you see where his vote totals are. His lack of votes are, in no way, indicative of some perceived lack of stats...this is purely a steroids issue.
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Post by Chris on Jan 22, 2009 15:16:49 GMT -5
Could Rickey play now, AFTER he's in the Hall?
Would they cancel the manufacturing of his plaque?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 22, 2009 15:21:24 GMT -5
Jim Palmer came back after he was a member of the Hall. But he was already in. Henderson, despite his bluster, wont be playing next year, so moot issue.
Cho, you're wrong, McGwire was NOT a lockstop first balloter. His average was pathetic. He was as one-dimensional as it gets. I dont know what stats you think you are going on, but even without any of the steroid mess, he was no lock to breeze into the hall.
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Post by Chris on Jan 22, 2009 15:28:27 GMT -5
500 HRs and breaking Roger Maris' hallowed record was more than enough to sway voters, had he been au-naturale.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 22, 2009 15:42:11 GMT -5
I very much disagree. 500 home runs does not mean nearly as much anymore. It is no longer a benchmark. As to beating Maris' hallowed record, lots of good setting that record did for Maris.
BELIEVE ME, I read through REAMS of stuff about his chances even before everything blew up in his face, and he was far from a lock.
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Post by nobeernofun on Jan 23, 2009 0:28:54 GMT -5
WOW THANK'S BRO. Looks like 500 HR's won't get big Mac in. NEW YORK -- Mark McGwire's youngest brother says in a book proposal that he injected the former baseball star with steroids, according to Deadspin.com. Jay McGwire is circulating a manuscript titled "The McGwire Family Secret: The Truth about Steroids, a slugger and Ultimate Redemption," the Web site reported Wednesday. Jay McGwire, a body builder, said his brother started using steroids in 1994 and that he injected Mark with Deca-Durabolin.
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Post by Chris on Jun 30, 2009 23:52:35 GMT -5
I thought Gossage would stop talking after getting into the Hall.
I love The Goose!
But now he's running his mouth about Mo's 500th save, saying that you really can't compare what Mo does to what he does...and he's STILL running the old, "I came into situations God couldn't get out of and I got out of 'em" line.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 1, 2009 5:51:40 GMT -5
Yeah, the closer then and now were different roles. In 1978 for example, there was one game where Gossage pitched 5 innings.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jul 1, 2009 8:40:56 GMT -5
Gossage is totally right, and spot-on with his thoughts. That said, he should shut the Hell up, and let others speak for him if they choose to. He sounds petty.
But Mo has collected a heap of crap saves over the years, no doubt of that.
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Post by jwmcc on Jul 1, 2009 8:46:18 GMT -5
Here are Rivera's saves broken down by lead protection:
Brought in to protect 1-run lead: 159 Brought in to protect 2-run lead: 159 Brought in to protect 3-run lead: 144 greater then 3:38
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jul 1, 2009 8:50:48 GMT -5
Wow...thats worse than I thought.
Only 159 of 500 with a 1-run lead? Man.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 1, 2009 9:42:06 GMT -5
Just curious if you could break down Mariano's ERA when brought in with a tie game and when NOT brought in with a tie game.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jul 1, 2009 9:57:56 GMT -5
No.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jul 1, 2009 11:23:05 GMT -5
I wasn't asking you. I was asking John. He's qualified to do so. You are a grump.
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Post by Chris on Jul 1, 2009 11:57:19 GMT -5
That's my whole point, Tom. We get the point Goose is making.
But enough already...especially with the stupid God quote. Does he really think that God couldn't dial up a fastball to 99?
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