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Post by massyanksfan on Nov 26, 2007 13:21:48 GMT -5
Before Melky and abreau (and I'm ONLY giving abreau credit for his arm...because he is, since Reggie, the laziest RF I've seen in pinstripes) Are you forgetting the brief stint of one Jose Canseco?
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Post by kingdzbws on Nov 26, 2007 13:25:10 GMT -5
P.S. The Yankees DID NOT lose because of fielding woes.....Let's address the problem.
Hitting - Great Fielding - Ho Hum Starting Pitching - SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT, and SHIT
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 26, 2007 13:25:21 GMT -5
How does Balls think Melky is a defensive upgrade over Rowand???
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Post by Jason Giambi on Nov 26, 2007 13:27:25 GMT -5
Before Melky and abreau (and I'm ONLY giving abreau credit for his arm...because he is, since Reggie, the laziest RF I've seen in pinstripes) Are you forgetting the brief stint of one Jose Canseco? Pete is a dunsy Dunsky,
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Nov 26, 2007 13:27:56 GMT -5
tj. whats the record on this austin jackson? i know NOTHING about him. fill us in.
i like the idea of hughes and melky (even though id personally rather trade cano) and a prospect (jackson unless he is touted as the next black msb but can play a mean ss) for santana. i highly DOUBT minn would do that deal though.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 26, 2007 13:28:15 GMT -5
How does Balls think Melky is a defensive upgrade over Rowand???
Easy. He has to be. He's a Yankee, after all.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 26, 2007 13:33:17 GMT -5
He's an outfielder, with very good speed and natural athleticism. One of the concerns was his hitting skills, which are still developing, as is his power. He is only 20 years old.
After a decent start in low-A ball last year, he took a step up in high-A, and kicked some ass. He finished the year with a trip to AAA Scranton.
He strikes out a lot. Born and raised in Texas. I will see what else I can dig up, but over the course of the year he was turning heads in the scouting community. Some people really do feel this guy can be a game-changer, and when the Yankee top 10 comes out in Feb via BaseballAmerica, he will probably rank #1 as far as position talent.
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Post by grover on Nov 26, 2007 13:33:45 GMT -5
Yeah, Rowand sure hurt the White Sox in 2005. Oh wait ooops he helped them to a title.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 26, 2007 13:35:43 GMT -5
I never said Melky was a defensive upgrade over Rowand. Of course, Tom has to downgrade Melky as much as possible, since he is a Yankee after all.
The difference isn't that high, and it's about $13 million per year less to have Melky.
Austin Jackson is A ball. Way too soon to say what he will do.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 26, 2007 13:37:24 GMT -5
Balls I try to be objective on stuff and Melky is just an average player (passable offensively and a great arm and speed, but judgement lacking).....I would rather have Santana and Rowand than Melky and $13M....
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 26, 2007 13:40:11 GMT -5
Yeah, seriously, especially since $13 million will be about 5% of the Yankee payroll next year. Whats another 13 million at this point??
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 26, 2007 13:41:51 GMT -5
Melky's only 23 years old, and getting better. He's more than passable. He's solid. He's not an all star by any stretch yet, but developmentally, he's ahead of Bernie Williams at the same age. Only Melky has an arm. Not saying Melky will have a Bernie like career, but the potential is there.
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Post by Domi on Nov 26, 2007 13:42:01 GMT -5
How many superduper stars have to come here and tank before you start getting weary of it? There was NO EVIDENCE Giambi would be such a failure here. No evidence Kevin Brown or Randy Johnson would fail here. Actually, age and history of injury, amongst other factors, were huge indicators that Brown and Johnson would fail here.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 26, 2007 13:44:46 GMT -5
Except that both of them were coming off stellar years when they were traded for. They produced until they hit NY.
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Post by grover on Nov 26, 2007 13:46:29 GMT -5
Yeah, really. I was saying Johnson would get rocked here, and he did.
Balls you're really trying to stretch it. By your logic that can happen to ANYONE! What the fuck do you expect the Yankees to do, never make a deal or sign a free agent?
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 26, 2007 13:49:15 GMT -5
I never said that. But don't throw away the future for one guy who has a red flag like Santana. Giambi didn't even have THAT when we signed him. It's not worth giving up the future for a guy that's one year away from free agency.
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Post by kingdzbws on Nov 26, 2007 13:50:38 GMT -5
So when exactly does a prior injury matter? When is past performance an indicator or future potential? and When is it not?
Balls-ian logic is not....um, logical.
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Post by grover on Nov 26, 2007 13:51:26 GMT -5
LOL What red flag!?! Prove it!! Prove to me he has an elbow problem!! You have to show PROOF! Show me articles saying his elbow is a problem. Show me reports stating this. Please, let me know.
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Post by kingdzbws on Nov 26, 2007 13:51:33 GMT -5
Santana has a Red flag, but Giambi, Kevin Brown, and Randy Johnson didn't?
Yep, Ballsian logic.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 26, 2007 13:52:35 GMT -5
Again, Baseball America projects Hughes as a potential top tier starter. He did show signs of it. Last year, the further the season went along, the worse Santana pitched. Not exactly something you want in October. He's not worth the money AND the prospects.
At this point, I'd rather give up Wang than Hughes.
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Post by Domi on Nov 26, 2007 13:56:26 GMT -5
It's not worth giving up the future for a guy that's one year away from free agency. What part of "there's no way in Hell that he hits the market" do you not understand? At this point, I'd rather give up Wang than Hughes. Well, yeah. I don't think you'll find much disagreement with that. But good luck getting Minnesota to sign off on that trade.
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Post by grover on Nov 26, 2007 13:57:40 GMT -5
Again, Baseball America projects Hughes as a potential top tier starter. He did show signs of it. Last year, the further the season went along, the worse Santana pitched. Not exactly something you want in October. He's not worth the money AND the prospects. At this point, I'd rather give up Wang than Hughes. I asked for proof of elbow problems and I asked for proof that his 2nd half decline was due to this supposed elbow injury. Prove it. Show me the red flag. Show me reports, show me articles on it.
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Post by kingdzbws on Nov 26, 2007 14:02:58 GMT -5
So when exactly does a prior injury matter? When is past performance an indicator or future potential? and When is it not?
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Post by Chris on Nov 26, 2007 14:10:45 GMT -5
Gotta love the fact that Yankee fans got 17 wins in consecutive years from Randy Johnson, and he'll go down in Yankee lore as having gotten "rocked" and is lumped into the same conversation as Kevin Brown. Yeah, he SUCKED...thank God we had Mussina to pick up the slack...oh wait...
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 26, 2007 14:12:35 GMT -5
RJ was 5-0 vs Boston that one year. That made him semi worth the "investment".
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Post by grover on Nov 26, 2007 14:15:41 GMT -5
Yeah, and when the playoffs came around he got rocked. Thus, what comes before was a waste.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 26, 2007 14:16:37 GMT -5
I love how Balls excuses Hughes shaky season stats cause he "showed signs" of potential. So it was ok. But Santana, who had a Hell of a season line is a problem cause he had a shaky second half. Balls logic at work again. Funny, though, how the 17 Ks he had in a start during that "shaky second half" and with that "elbow in question" is not enough to sort of help assuage that 2nd half.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 26, 2007 14:16:54 GMT -5
The red flag is the second half.
And who says there's no way he hits the market? Tom?
And please don't use Johnson's WINS as a sign he did well, considering he sucked ass and got a shitload of support. When you're ERA is 5.00, you could win 35 games and still suck.
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Post by Chris on Nov 26, 2007 14:17:27 GMT -5
He had 17 wins with a balky back. Had he gone 0-5 against Boston and wound up with 17 wins, it's still 17 wins. Sure it would have tarnished his appeal, but Yankee fans are already chalking up his 34 wins in 2 seasons and his lifetime 16-7 record against Boston as a "failed experiment" so the guy can't win either way.
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Post by grover on Nov 26, 2007 14:18:47 GMT -5
No Balls, show me actual documentation that his 2nd half was due to his elbow, and that his elbow is at risk. You're not giving proof. You can't back up your accusations.
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