$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 20, 2007 10:26:50 GMT -5
Couple of things here. Balls, you mentioned they should only let the "good" contestants through....uh, the reason they do not can be summed up by this week....over 35 million viewers both nights. The mere fact we are having this discussion and that the show is on so many lips is cause of the train wreck they put on the air.
Secondly, interesting point I heard on some morning zoo or another. Those to be blamed here are really the people that feed these idiot singers with delusion, and tell these awful singers to try out for the show cause they are so good, or talk them up at the karaoke bar or singing class. The losers who were terrible all have MySpace pages apparently where their "friends" are all saying, "you were the best they showed, you should have went to Hollywood, they are crazy."
Everyone tells them NOT to give up on the dream, and they are led to believe they have talent. So its the idiots feeding this dream, really, to blame for sending them there to be the fool.
Oh, and as for the door, it was obvious what they did. That was just asinine. To lock one side, and not put a sign, thats just mean. But I guess funny, too.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 22, 2007 10:23:22 GMT -5
The thing is, it's supposed to be a singing competition. I realize people like the bad auditions and they're catering to them, but that still doesn't make it right.
10000 people audition. The main judges could possibly see at most, 150 a day. That means that the screeners have to weed out 97% of the group, if they stay 2 days.
The only people that SHOULD get into see Paula, Simon, and Randy should be the top 3 percent.
Yes, there are some singers there that are encouraged by idiots. But many of the people that get on the show belong in a mental institution. They are not only not part of the TOP 3 percent, they are likely part of the bottom 3 percent, and their presence on the show is just a waste of time.
Yes, I get that people like to see it.
But good singers are denied even the chance to see Paula, Simon and Randy in favor of retards. Give me a break. Last week they had one guy that looked like Igor, with his fat friend who looked like Chris Farley (now).
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 22, 2007 10:44:41 GMT -5
I wont be paying much attention this week. Tomorrow we'll have it on, but I will be doing other things while its on, with half an eye on it. Wednesday I am not even going to bother, I will be watching the NHL All-Star game instead. I cant wait till these auditions are through.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 22, 2007 10:49:57 GMT -5
On Wednesday, I will be engaged in hard throwing dodgeball action, and will be DVRing Idol.
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Post by kingdzbws on Jan 22, 2007 11:11:38 GMT -5
Hey Igor and Dead Farley parlayed that bit into a segment on Jimmy Kimmel who wants them to be regulars on his show!
And just to chime in...its not what the show is 'supposed' to be about. The show is about ratings - like every other show, including news programming. No one cares if it's retards or virtuosos so long as they get the ratings. And amid thousands of shower-singng, kareoki-loving, self styled idols, the train wrecks get better ratings.
And between the Bush Baby and farley's Corpse, and two other Mariah wannabees, people seem to enjoy the freaks, its like watching a car crash during a race.....its not about the crashing its about the racing, but people love them crashes. NOW when you weed out the freaks and shower singers, then it's more about talent.
AND SPEAKING OF TRAIN WRECKS...I got to watch some bits of Shooting Sizemore.....WOW, HE'S A MESS. Puffing Crystal on TV, now that's talent and dedication....Talk about METHod acting!
M
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Post by Chris on Jan 22, 2007 13:34:21 GMT -5
Yes, the show IS about ratings. Tom is absolutely right.
If this show, with the exact same premise, had been aired 30 years ago, the show would probably look something like Balls had described. There probably wouldn't have been any "audition shows"...it would have been all about the competition, we (and by "WE" I mean WE collectively - the American TV Viewing public) would have seen only the best singers on TV, and the hook in trying to attract viewers would have been the same as all of the "variety shows" of past, more innocent eras of TV - to be entertained by the actual performances...in this case singers.
American Idol, in the year 2007, is so much more about the train wreck factor than it is about the singers. American Idol contestants, for the most part, including the winners, will never be more popular then they are/were while on the show. Without Paula, Randy, and Simon, they’re popularity is nowhere near what it was while they were on the show. Look at Kellie Pickler – I mean she was all set to be America’s Sweetheart – she was all the rage, but as soon as she got sent home, who has heard a thing about her? She was a good singer…just a capable and just a photogenic and cute as any of the other teeny bopper stars like Britney Spears and such….now she’s a distant memory. The ironic thing is the show’s premise is to choose someone to go on to bigger and better things and become a big star…an IDOL. The fact is their popularity, their time in the limelight as an “IDOL” really only lasts as long as the show is on.
We don't care about Taylor Hicks...we're not going to suddenly think he's this incredible musician and run out and buy his CDs because he won American Idol...we don't tune in to get "tuned in" to new musical talent...we tune in to see people bomb, to see Simon insult them, to see if Paula is drunk, to see if any strife is generated between contestants, to see if the musical guests interact negatively with the contestants the way we were lead to believe that Brian May and Ace Young did...we tune in to American Idol for the same reasons we tuned in to Flavor Flav and Danny Bonaduce...not for the same reasons we once tuned in to Star Search and Solid Gold and American Bandstand.
And we buy into it more and more each week, so you can hardly blame the creators of American Idol for playing up the "train wreck" factor and downplaying the actual competition. It sells.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 22, 2007 14:04:23 GMT -5
Keep in mind that once the show shifts to Hollywood, with few exceptions, the crap singers are gone, and that is the majority of the show.
As for post-Idol popularity, that depends. I think a big problem these people have been having is that they haven't come out with a real hit.
The only time they ever had a decent song for the winner was when Kelly Clarkson got "A Moment Like This." It was a legit hit from the show. But since then, the winner's songs have sucked.
Some Idol alumni have done well. Some haven't.
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Post by Chris on Jan 22, 2007 14:24:56 GMT -5
Some idol alumni have done well...but none have gone on to become huge stars as the name of the show suggests. That's my point. Taylor Hicks or even Kelly Clarkson are never going to match the popularity of the "real" American Idols in the music industry.
And I still contend that once the show moves to the actual competition phase, "we're" still in it for the side show - for Simon's insults, for Paula's whacked-out behavior, for the behind the scenes drama. I wish there were a monitoring system that could give us numbers on how many people Tivo this show, watch about 25% of each performance and then fast forward to the critiques. I'll bet you'd be alarmed by the numbers. You might say YOU don't do that, and my answer would be that I guess not everyone is the "purist" that you are.
The appeal of this show is not being entertained by singing...If I wanna hear a kick ass version of "Hero" by Mariah Carey, I'm not gonna look to Kellie Pickler for it...I'll go buy the CD. The appeal of this show is the same as the appeal of Survivor. No one watches survivor to see who builds a better thatched hut out of palm tree fronds on a deserted island...they watch it for the human interaction and all the drama involved...same premise for American Idol.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 22, 2007 16:18:32 GMT -5
Actually, Kelly Clarkson has done everything a superstar can do and more. She has several non-Idol related hits. She is a multi-Grammy winner. She's all over the place. You could make arguments about how the others have not lived up to what you're saying, and I really couldn't argue (even though Clay Aiken has had a hell of a run).
But Kelly Clarkson is in a class by herself.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 22, 2007 16:28:40 GMT -5
Chris Daughtry has had a top-selling album for weeks, and currently its # 3 on the billboard charts.
Idol alum are doing ok.
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Post by Chris on Jan 22, 2007 16:57:37 GMT -5
Look, you guys are missing the point here. OK, Kelly Clarkson won a Grammy, the Daughtry guy has a successful record, Clay Aiken did something I guess...the point is that simply riding the wave of popularity of the show none of them are going to be the long-term household names of a U2, Madonna, Mariah Carey…..…or Al B. Sure…….and pop stars of that ilk...they just aren't.
As a matter of fact, I'm even guilty of getting off track here...even THAT wasn't my point. MY point was that the real appeal of this show, the appeal for the masses who tune in, is the reality show/freak show factor...the insults, the crying, the drama, the in-fighting. That's exactly why the audition shows are so popular...we want to see people in uncomfortable situation and all kinds of drama unfold. Do any of you honestly think this show would fly if, in 2007 The Age Of The Reality Show, they took a Star Search approach - introduce the singer, let them sing, and let people vote....no interaction with Simon, Paula, Randy, Ryan, no behind the scenes footage...just straight singing and voting!?!?!?!?! Not a chance...the show wouldn't have lasted. Star Search and Variety Shows are a thing of the past....neither exciting nor outlandish enough to capture the interest of today's audience.
Idol is not a Singing Competition Show. It's a reality show which happens to take place in a singing competition setting, much in the way that Survivor is a reality show that happens to take place in a desolate wilderness location - the actual competition is secondary.
Hey, I'm not knocking it. I love the show. I will continue to watch it and sing its praises. I credit Simon and the other creators for making television history - genius! I'm just trying to refute the notion that beyond the auditions, this show somehow transforms into a serious credible barometer of singing talent and nothing more.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 22, 2007 17:40:07 GMT -5
Again, you're missing the point. Kelly Clarkson is every bit the household name the names you mentioned were, at this point in their careers. Two albums--both number one.
A bunch of songs on those albums also hit the top of the charts.
She's a megastar.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 22, 2007 22:36:05 GMT -5
Cho, who cares?
It is what it is. People who like these winners could care less if they become the next Ray Charles, Elvis, or even David Hasselhoff. Stop making it out to be more than it is.
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Post by Chris on Jan 23, 2007 5:32:57 GMT -5
When it's all said and done, Kelly Clarkson, as talented as she may be...will be a flash in the pan....at least relative to the careers of Madonna and U2. I think being the American Idol winner may actually work to the detriment of her career in the long run...I think there will always be a stigma surrounding these winners that they were fabricated for TV ratings as opposed to real musicians who worked hard and perfected their craft. It's probably not a fair knock on some of them, but I think that stigma will be there. To her credit, I like Kelly Clarkson. I like her for the fact that I have a 7-year-old daughter who is just in the infancy of her appreciation for pop music, and Kelly Clarkson is someone who isn't a fucking WHORE (or at least portraying one on MTV) that I can feel safe with exposing my daughter to. Previously my daughter was a big fan of Hilary Duff, who is slowly metamorphisizing into a real Grade A Skank...so I'm glad my kid has moved on to Hannah Montana and Kelly Clarkson. I can only hope that my daughter doesn't follow my musical footsteps and have the first record that she buys on her own be something akin to a Frank Zappa 8-track tape with a song called "Titties And Beer" bought with money stolen out of her Mom's purse around the age of 9. Not that I did that!!!
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 23, 2007 6:26:34 GMT -5
Kelly Clarkson has already been around for 5 years. Well past pan flashing status. And again, Madonna has been around for decades. She is in a class by herself.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Jan 23, 2007 7:24:52 GMT -5
the reason none of them haven't had a hit is because they suck
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 23, 2007 8:18:07 GMT -5
Hail to the Chief!
President saves the day. State of the Union is tonight at 9, so Idol is back to 60 minutes. Hopefully this is the end of the 2 hour audition blocks. These shows are much more palatable in 60 minute blocks.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 23, 2007 8:30:31 GMT -5
I think tomorrow is 2 hours again.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 23, 2007 8:39:20 GMT -5
Not for me it isn't.
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Post by Chris on Jan 24, 2007 3:56:22 GMT -5
I like the fat guy with the bushy goatee, Sundance Head.
Talent wise, he's the goods. I could see them marketing that guy as being somewhat similar to Steve Harwell - singer of Smashmouth - big burly rough and tumble dude with a gruff yet talented voice. He'd have to change his styles a little bit from the blues stuff he likes...but this guy could be a legit musician.
I made the Steve Harwell reference for the sake of not getting too obscure... because the guy he really reminds me of a lot of a is guy name Ernie Locke who sang for a now defunct punk/blues/rock band called "Tenderloin" from Kansas City - a big gruff guy with a big voice. They were an outstanding band, Locke was a phenomenal stage presence, but I think this dude blows away both Locke and Harwell hands down.
He is the son of somewhat, but not totally obscure 60s rockabilly..or rockabilly-esque singer Roy Head....and me being a fan and collector of a lot of obscure 50s and 60s rockabilly and garage music, I am actually vaguely familiar with Roy Head.
Anyway, he's my horse in the race...I'm on record.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 24, 2007 7:12:37 GMT -5
I have to agree about Sundance Head. My only problem with him is that his dad is a singer too and had a number 1 hit, even if it was for a short time. It's almost as bad as Paris being a Grammy winner's niece. I think the only real difference is that you didn't see the judges gushing over the dad the way they did over Paris' aunt, who also showed up to the audition.
Not that Paris wasn't good enough to go to Hollywood, but she sure as hell was overplayed and I think her nepotism played a role.
Sundance Head is a much better singer than Paris, but the same stigma applies to him. Still, on pure talent alone, he was the best we've seen by far.
The only competitor right now that I see is the shy background singer. She also has a strong voice.
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Post by Chris on Jan 24, 2007 7:52:11 GMT -5
Sundance was a better singer than the background singer.
I have no problem with Sundance being the SON of a professional singer, just as I had no problem with Paris being the niece of a Grammy winner. Sure they may have some advantages in thanks to the gene pool, but they are still amateurs battling it out in an amateur competition...and they still have to do the work.
It's the background singer that I have a real problem with. She's already a professional singer. She has no business taking place in this competition. She already must have "INs" to the music industry...let her pursue her career via those avenues. I guess there are no hard fast rules as to who can compete in American Idol...but hell, at this rate why not let Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey compete as well, ya know? I don't like it one bit.
BUT...even having said all that...Sundance was a better singer than her anyway and he RIGHTFULLY deserves to be in the competition. I can seriously envision this kid going places in the music industry.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 24, 2007 8:29:46 GMT -5
The nepotism comes when judges, who do try to influence the vote, give preferential treatment. That happened last year with Paris. The judges did not come off as impartial with her.
As for the background singer, the fact that she was professional did bother me too, but she IS damn good. And we don't know who she sang background for. If she sang background for someone big, then yeah, we have another tainted contestant.
I agree that Sundance was better than she is, but as of now, and I know it's super-early, she and Sundance are my top two.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 24, 2007 8:47:17 GMT -5
Balls, the judges did not come off as impartial with Paris, cause they liked her. And, obviously, America did too, as she won the show.
Taylor Hicks put out two self-released albums before he did Idol, and sold nearly 5000 copies of each. Is he "tainted?"
I actually downloaded Sundance's Dads song off of Limewire last night. Interesting that it was nudged off the charts by a Beatles ditty. Listened to it this morning, it had a familiar sound and was a bouncy jig.
I thank God for the NHL all-star game tonight, giving me the excuse I need to miss tonights train wreck from New York.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 24, 2007 9:31:06 GMT -5
If that's true about Taylor, then yes. Of course 5000 copies isn't exactly that much.
As for Paris, they could have easily been extra nice because they liked her aunt. Hell, Randy gushed over her aunt on national TV. Like they were really going to cut her after that. Paris was very overrated. And she LOST.
I want to hear that song too.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jan 24, 2007 9:35:26 GMT -5
Of course 5000 copies isn't exactly that much.
5000 more than Paris ever sold before Idol, and you are complaining about "her advantages."
Stop with your hypocricy....or is it racism?
Oh, and as to Paris, when it comes to record sales she did not necessarily "lose." She is doing fine for herself.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 24, 2007 9:52:23 GMT -5
Paris isn't even on the charts. I don't think she even had a record yet. She fell off the map. Name one song by Paris. She stunk.
Paris also had an aunt who was a GRAMMY winner that the judges gushed over. That was a MONSTER advantage. The judges could cut or badmouth anyone. The judges can also influence the humanoids.
And this year, the background singer is black. She's in my top 2 right now. If you don't like her, you are a racist.
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Post by Chris on Jan 24, 2007 13:06:21 GMT -5
Who Paris and Sundance are related to is irrelevant. It's totally 100% irrelevant. The bottom line is, at the end of the day, on American Idol you have to sing better AND be more popular than the other contestants - the popularity aspect, where the "reality show" factor comes in is huge. The whole concept of the show is to pull some unknown out of their humble life and make them a STAR!!!
I don't see that anyone was knocking down Paris' or Sundance's doors to sign them to a record deal prior to their A.I. exposure, so I don't think their lineage did much in the way of making them stars. And even regarding Taylor Hicks and his records...Tom pretty much alluded to the fact that his records were a DIY effort, which I imagine implies that he was not signed to and paid by a record label. Look I played in a few crappy punk bands here and there, and we even put out a couple of 7-inches...but that was a total DIY effort...and let me tell you this, if the whole DIY aspect of Hicks' career prior to A.I. is true, then I'm guessing that means that 5000 records were bought and paid for, possibly by Hicks himself. But I'm guessing you couldn't find 500 people, probably not 50 people, let alone 5000 who actually have one of those early Taylor Hicks CDs they had purchased at the time. Either those records have become odd collector’s items after the fact of American Idol, or they're sitting in a storage facility somewhere.
BUT....assuming what I'd said is false, and Taylor Hicks did have some sort of a career as a professional singer in that he was signed by a record company to make music for the purpose of selling records (whether he sold well or not) then I would have just as much of a problem with Hicks that I do with the backup singer. From the sound of it, seems as though she may have done work for some serious musicians...and she is a paid professional singer whose services have been sought out by people in the music industry. It really doesn't matter to me whether or not she sang on hit records or not. To me that goes against the spirit of the show.
It would be like playing softball in a recreation league of local company sponsored teams made up of employees of those companies....and one team shows up with Barry Bonds on their team and another shows up with Drew Henson on theirs....either case is equally objectionable.....to ME!
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Post by Chris on Jan 24, 2007 13:13:37 GMT -5
Here's a link to a real audio format of the Roy Head song: www.terrificmusic.com/files/music_T.html (do a search for the word "Treat" and you'll find it) It should sound familiar...it was covered quite a bit. Any George Thorogood fan will recognize this tune. A Google search also indicates that it was in the movie The Commitments. Sundance is truly an unknown...the majority of Google results point to head gaskets for the Plymouth Sundance. However once source said that Sundance had recently been trying to collaborate with Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top in some song writing efforts in order to get his musical career off the ground.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jan 24, 2007 14:41:12 GMT -5
The point is that when the judges say nice things, it affects the humanoids. And in the case of Paris especially, they openly fawned over her aunt. While they didn't really do that for Sundance, one has to wonder if the judges will be nicer for the sake of the old man.
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