MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2007 20:18:28 GMT -5
I don't think with hitting you can go position by position. There are hitters, there are starting pitchers, and there are relief pitchers. You could divide relief pitchers into setup men and closers.
And even the Clemens maneuver had precedent with Houston.
Kevin Brown had a record contract too. He signed just after Belle and Bernie, and became the first $105 million man. That's what started some trends.
I think that the 2000 class just broke new ground, eclipsing previous contracts by an enormous amount. I think the big free agent signing the year before was Griffey's at 9 years, $116.5. So the contracts were not only getting bigger, they were getting longer.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 14, 2007 20:20:11 GMT -5
Right my point was the current roster did not have many that set the bar..I was just going by postion in order to mention players not for being paid at there postition hence why I compared Giambi with Manny.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2007 20:22:59 GMT -5
No doubt. That's been my point all along on this issue. The Yankees have always been in line with the current structures in baseball, and rarely set the bar. Rivera is a RARE exception.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 15, 2007 9:10:06 GMT -5
Add the ARod 10/272 deal to the mix. All this after a $21 discount they say.... NY could have really done MLB a favor by letting this pussy play in LA for $22 million over 8 years, but they'd rather be retards.
This deal makes the JD Drew deal seem ok.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2007 9:15:47 GMT -5
No it doesn't. Drew got a substantial raise (40%) and never produced prior. He did nothing to earn that raise. ARod is getting at best, a modest raise and is coming back at virtually the same rate.
I don't see how NY is saving money.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Nov 15, 2007 9:18:09 GMT -5
NY is about winning, not making LA look like retards.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 15, 2007 9:20:32 GMT -5
Drew hit a grand slam that led Boston to win a game in the ALCS, which led to a ring. His contract is a joke, but at least he's done something to contribute.
Why the hell would ARod need a raise if his contract has been the laughing stock of MLB since it's signing. Even you pussies shit on it. He's making about 25% more than everyone else - congrats - ARod & NY were made for each other.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2007 9:23:46 GMT -5
I also don't think that ARod's contract is right. Not arguing that. But Drew is a joke. One hit doesn't change a thing.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 15, 2007 9:27:28 GMT -5
Mac to compare Drew to A-Rod is idiotic and I am no A-Rod fan....
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 15, 2007 9:28:18 GMT -5
We're comparing $275 million to $75 million.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 15, 2007 9:29:08 GMT -5
And that's about right.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 15, 2007 9:35:35 GMT -5
I am breathing easier today however. The thought ARod ruining the Sox chemistry & WS dynasty scared me.
I do wonder who will replace Manny once he's gone. I was worried RS owners would peg ARod for that. ARod is a little boy in the postseason. Manny is a beast. I wish Vlady was available.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 15, 2007 9:37:05 GMT -5
2 titles in 4 years is a dynasty?
lol
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Nov 15, 2007 10:29:13 GMT -5
I think the Farnsworth contract has affected salaries more than the ARod deal. Justin Spier got a fucking 4/16 deal. Are you fucking kidding me? Before Farnsworth, muti year/million deals for middle relievers were very rare. Now every "setup" guy wants longterm deals worth tons of $. That kills payrolls. you do have a great point here that i never did put together. the shame of this is, hardly any setup guys are worth that money. except a rare few. and now so many setup guys are being overpaid. and you are spot on. the yankees did start that trend with guys like farnesworthless and gordon.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2007 10:33:15 GMT -5
Yeah, but again, in both the cases of Farnsworth and Gordon, they were both closers coming to NY to setup for the best closer in history. It's not like it was a guy who never closed. Because they were closers, they likely would have got closer money elsewhere, and if the Yanks wanted them, they needed to pay more than the average setup guy. But it's hard to argue that any contract affected the game more than ARod's.
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Nov 15, 2007 10:36:47 GMT -5
Why the hell would ARod need a raise if his contract has been the laughing stock of MLB since it's signing. Even you pussies shit on it. He's making about 25% more than everyone else - congrats - ARod & NY were made for each other. wow, if this doesnt ring true. i fucking hate arod. but understand how much the yankees need him. lol @ dynasty. lick my nuts mac. and drew is a fuckin joke. drew and lugo. what was theo thinking?
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Nov 15, 2007 10:37:32 GMT -5
Yeah, but again, in both the cases of Farnsworth and Gordon, they were both closers coming to NY to setup for the best closer in history. It's not like it was a guy who never closed. Because they were closers, they likely would have got closer money elsewhere, and if the Yanks wanted them, they needed to pay more than the average setup guy. But it's hard to argue that any contract affected the game more than ARod's. and because of the yankees pigish attitude towards setup men, they have driven the market price of setup men up. how can you not get that?
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 15, 2007 10:39:46 GMT -5
Oh, I don't know what Theo was thinking. As I've said before - he's a retard...but somehow...It worked.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2007 10:41:46 GMT -5
Larry--I do get that. But the setup men that the Yankees signed were NOT setup men when they were signed. They were closers signed to BE setup men. That would be reason for a premium.
And regarding ARod--I'm not saying I would have done that deal if I were the Yankees. I understand why they want him back obviously. But the numbers still don't make sense to me, and I would be willing to let him walk and put that money elsewhere.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 15, 2007 10:42:15 GMT -5
Yeah, but again, in both the cases of Farnsworth and Gordon, they were both closers coming to NY to setup for the best closer in history. It's not like it was a guy who never closed. Because they were closers, they likely would have got closer money elsewhere, and if the Yanks wanted them, they needed to pay more than the average setup guy. But it's hard to argue that any contract affected the game more than ARod's. and because of the yankees pigish attitude towards setup men, they have driven the market price of setup men up. how can you not get that? He'll never get it. He'll keep saying "they were closers, so they required closer $." This is a fact that WE ALL know, but the fact is - they were paid that $ to setup. It's like saying a team signed Torii Hunter to be a 9th inning defensive replacement/pinch runner, but had to pay him $15 million a year because he was a great all around player in Minn. WHich they would have to do, but $15 million for a pinch runner sounds a bit excessive doesn't it?
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 15, 2007 10:42:47 GMT -5
I guess in an indirect way the Yanks paying closer money to guys who were on the market as closers but made them set up men once signed inflated the market......but that is about it as far as I am concerned........The Yanks biggest area of guilt is maybe tacking on an extra year to the length but that is about it.......
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 15, 2007 10:45:03 GMT -5
Some of you are really Yankee apologists. You should be on the payroll. I mean, whats another million dollars?
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Nov 15, 2007 10:45:45 GMT -5
and because of the yankees pigish attitude towards setup men, they have driven the market price of setup men up. how can you not get that? He'll never get it. He'll keep saying "they were closers, so they required closer $." This is a fact that WE ALL know, but the fact is - they were paid that $ to setup. It's like saying a team signed Torii Hunter to be a 9th inning defensive replacement/pinch runner, but had to pay him $15 million a year because he was a great all around player in Minn. WHich they would have to do, but $15 million for a pinch runner sounds a bit excessive doesn't it? why is that a bit excessive? the yankees have a $19M pinch hitter. ladies and gentlemen, #25, jason giambi. woooooo hooooooo
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 15, 2007 10:48:02 GMT -5
Well that is what adding a year or two at the end does Larry, but it was not the Yanks who decided to pay Giambi 20M out of thin air..Manny and A-Rod did that and at the time of the signing Giambi was every much the hitter either of them were....he just juiced and broke down quicker
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 15, 2007 10:50:36 GMT -5
Always an excuse for these contracts....
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2007 10:52:36 GMT -5
That's the thing--you want a guy like Hunter to pinch hit, why would he sign with you and devalue his entire career, when he can make CF money for most teams?
If you want Torii Hunter to pinch hit, then you pay for him. Of course, it's much more reasonable to get a closer to set up, but it's the same idea.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 15, 2007 10:57:21 GMT -5
A pricier home of champions Citing needs on field and at Fenway, Sox raise ticket costs 9% Email|Print| Text size – + By Amalie Benjamin Globe Staff / November 15, 2007 The Red Sox, who already have the most expensive tickets in baseball, are raising prices again, this time by 9 percent, in an effort to keep up with a familiar target: the Yankees.
A little more than two weeks after the Red Sox won their second World Series in four seasons, the team decided it needed more revenue to fund everything from Fenway Park improvements to free agents to draftees. And the Sox are determined to pass much of the expense on to the fans, some of whom might still be unpacking their bags from Cleveland and Colorado.
"It's pretty disgusting, but I'm not surprised," said Jon Freedman, who has had a pair of season tickets, loge box seats along third base, since 1987. "But you know, if I don't buy them, there are at least 1,000 people who will."
Such is the growth in popularity of Fenway, which has been sold out for 388 consecutive regular-season games despite the cost.
According to Team Marketing Report's 2007 Fan Cost Index, which includes two average adult tickets, two average children's tickets, four small sodas, two small beers, four hot dogs, two programs, parking, and two adult caps, the Red Sox far surpassed the runner-up Yankees, $313.83 to $222.53. But while that may seem high, according to TMR, a Chicago-based sports marketing and research concern, those 2007 numbers are actually less than it would take for a family of four to see a Patriots, Celtics, or Bruins game.
"We need revenue to fuel the vision that we have, and the vision is for a competitive, entertaining, winning team year in and year out - I say winning, I don't necessarily mean winning the World Series - and to preserve, protect, enhance, improve Fenway Park," president/CEO Larry Lucchino said yesterday in a conference call. "In addition, to restock our minor league system is the gasoline that makes the car go in those three directions."
Fenway prices have skyrocketed in recent years, notably in the field boxes, which will incur the greatest increase for next season, jumping from $105 to $125 per game. As recently as 1997, field boxes cost $26. When the Sox won their first World Series in 2004, the cost had gone up to to $75.
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Post by Bad Mouth Larry on Nov 15, 2007 10:57:47 GMT -5
Well that is what adding a year or two at the end does Larry, but it was not the Yanks who decided to pay Giambi 20M out of thin air..Manny and A-Rod did that and at the time of the signing Giambi was every much the hitter either of them were....he just juiced and broke down quicker what a joke they giambi signing was. how do you pay that much and that many years FOR A 1B. that was my problem the whole time. baseball is filled with great hitting 1b's, why break the bank. i was the only one. everyone else was pushing each other over to suck his johnson.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2007 10:59:54 GMT -5
Because based on the market, and the time of the contract, and his production, and his age, and coming off the deals from the previous season, that's what the market was for him at the time.
The worst part of the contract actually turned out to be the length.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 15, 2007 11:06:55 GMT -5
I guess so, but paying hime $23 million to pinch hit wasn't a top notch side affect either.
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