$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 20, 2008 10:53:03 GMT -5
No, I wouldnt. But I am wondering if my faith in Eiland was miscast, and his detractors (and they were out there) were right.
I have to laugh that people like you, Balls, are ready to shrug this off as a "rebuilding year" if the kids stink it up. Well, bottom line - the MLB leader in payroll, and a team with a plus-200 million dollar payroll, should NEVER be in a "rebuilding" stage. Heads should roll.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 20, 2008 10:57:17 GMT -5
And here you go again. You would bitch about this team if it was winning, losing, or in between. You are becoming irrelevant.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 20, 2008 11:13:32 GMT -5
Where exactly have I changed my tune here?
I pushed for the Yankees to import Santana, or another top-line starter. They didnt. And now look at the mess they made.
If anything, I am being proven prophetic, again. And you are being proven pathetic, again.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 20, 2008 11:32:15 GMT -5
You are irrelevant. Had the Yanks got Santana, you would be crying about the payroll, and if you seriously think that you can judge that decision a few weeks into one season, you are foolish...and ugly.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 20, 2008 11:36:20 GMT -5
Had the Yanks got Santana, you would be crying about the payroll
No, I would not. And I addressed all that, at the time. My thinking, at this point, is if that is the way you are going to do business, you mise as well go all-out. Johan Santana is probaby the best pitcher in baseball right now. He is not a middle-reliever they would drown with money, or yet another DH/1B
Also, on a psychological level, although the money would have added to the connundrum, it would have been a TRADE - real baseball business - and not another "free agent signing"
No one pushed for the Santana trade as much as I. So you're wrong. I already addressed that in regards to the payroll.
I want a salary cap in baseball, but if the Yankees are going to spend money, I want them to spend it right.
Posada = money spent WRONG Santana = would have been money / trade chips spent RIGHT
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Post by 9 on Apr 20, 2008 12:16:22 GMT -5
Well, at this point, the best we can do is hope that at least one of the two kids turns it around, or we're fucked.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 20, 2008 19:04:26 GMT -5
malarky. You would bitch about payroll no matter who the money was spent on. And if Hughes or Kennedy turns into what they should turn into, while Santana hits a downslide, you would bitch about that as well.
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Post by bernie51williams on Apr 20, 2008 19:12:15 GMT -5
The Yanks need one more reliable starter, Moose seems to be done or if anything could maybe be a 5th starter. Kennedy, can't throw strikes and needs to make some starts in the minors, and I think we should stick with Hughes for a little longer. It would be nice to get a guy such as Paul Byrd, a guy who will win games, give you innings, and always keep you in the game.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 20, 2008 19:14:14 GMT -5
The Yankees should have made a move on Kyle Lohse, who sat around until a couple of weeks ago. They simply needed a solid back-filler. Byrd is another good example, but he was not an available option. With Kennedy, Hughes, and Mussina all stinking it up, and Wang still too hittable, there are serious concerns. Especially if Pettitte, an injury concern even at the best of times, falls apart.
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Post by Chris on Apr 21, 2008 10:48:28 GMT -5
Any in case anyone didn't notice....we talked about this at length in the Santana thread....
Dan Haren could have been had, although expensive, for considerably less than Santana. He's 3-0 right now with a 1.8 ERA
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 21, 2008 11:24:32 GMT -5
I don't think he was on the market for less than Santana.
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Post by Chris on Apr 21, 2008 11:27:26 GMT -5
"I don't think he was on the market for less than Santana." Oh you don't? 12.5 mill per year?
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 21, 2008 12:39:25 GMT -5
I thought you were talking about the players' package, not the dollars.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 21, 2008 12:40:31 GMT -5
Figures you would be thinking about the players' package, you gaylord. Get your eyes off the crotch and pay attention to the boxscores.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 21, 2008 12:54:10 GMT -5
Figures you would confuse the people in a trade, with a penis, you homo.
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Post by Chris on Apr 21, 2008 13:44:08 GMT -5
The A's would not have asked for what the Twins asked for Santana. If I recall, they were thinking along the lines of one of the three youngsters and Hank Steinbrenner was aghast at that.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 21, 2008 13:56:01 GMT -5
If I remember he was looking for an equal package. The D'Backs paid a nice ransom for him but no one notices because the D-Backs prospect list was/is loaded......
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 21, 2008 14:23:42 GMT -5
Captain's right. They basically wanted the exact same group of players.
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Post by Chris on Apr 21, 2008 14:54:17 GMT -5
There is no way that anyone should believe that the Yankees COULDN'T have worked a Dan Haren deal for considerably less than the Santana asking price - in both players sent and future contracts.
The A's may have wanted 2 of the 3 kids for Haren, like the Twinkies wanted for Santana, but there's no way they came right out to the Yankees and said, "This is our asking price, take it or leave it."
The A's DON'T re-sign future high priced free agents, period. They would have dealt Haren for some prospects, perhaps 1 of the 3, maybe you throw Jackson in there or something. That was blunder on the Yankees part - Haren makes less than Pettitte and Mussina and is miles better than either of them.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 21, 2008 19:49:34 GMT -5
Nope I remember at the time Beane saying he wanted the same in return, more so since Haren wasn't nearly as expesive as Santana.......
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 21, 2008 19:57:56 GMT -5
Captain's right. In terms of PLAYERS, it was the same thing.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 21, 2008 21:55:14 GMT -5
And away we go! Hank is pissed. Yankees co-chairman Hank Steinbrenner, like his father George, has never been one to mince words. When it comes to where pitcher Joba Chamberlain should be -- the bullpen or the starting rotation -- the younger Steinbrenner's expectations are crystal clear.
"I want him as a starter and so does everyone else, including him, and that is what we are working toward and we need him there now," Steinbrenner told The New York Times. "There is no question about it, you don't have a guy with a 100-mile-per-hour fastball and keep him as a set-up guy. You just don't do that. You have to be an idiot to do that."
Steinbrenner has high expectations for Chamberlain, comparing his potential to that of Boston ace Josh Beckett.
"We need a Beckett, we don't have one, and he's the one that can do it." Steinbrenner said.
"The mistake was already made last year switching him to the bullpen out of panic or whatever," Steinbrenner told The Times. "I had no say in it last year and I wouldn't have allowed it. That was done last year, so now we have to catch up. It has to be done on a schedule so we don't rush him."sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3356490
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Post by Chris on Apr 21, 2008 23:49:10 GMT -5
This is why Hank Steinbrenner is an idiot. I would venture a guess that he is even LESS of a "baseball man" than his old man was back in the Bronx Zoo days.
Joba Chamberlain will NOT be a two-pitch, 100 mph fastball guy as a starter. He will not be as dominant as a starter as he is as a reliever.
I'm not questioning Joba's ability to potentially be a frontline starter. He may have it in him. But Hank is acting like he's gonna carry his 100 mph fast ball and his sub-1.00 ERA into the starting rotation. I really wish Hank would do what the Steinbrenners do best when this team is at it's best - shut his fat fuckin' trap and write checks!
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 22, 2008 5:47:44 GMT -5
Joba has 4 pitches and top of the rotation ability. Hank Steinbrenner is 100 percent right to want him to start. Hughes also has top of the rotation ability. But there are growing pains. Joba would have them too.
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Post by Chris on Apr 22, 2008 9:37:36 GMT -5
I'm not saying Hank is wrong in wanting Joba in the rotation (although I'd leave him where he is), but I am saying that he's a moron because he thinks Joba is going to simply do what he does now as a reliever, for 7 innings as a starter. The guy has no baseball smarts.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 22, 2008 10:16:07 GMT -5
I don't think he thinks that.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2008 10:22:46 GMT -5
Yeah, where exactly did he say that, Cho?
Stop putting words in his mouth. He wants a guy that has breakout potential in the rotation, cause as he said, we do not have that now.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 22, 2008 11:30:39 GMT -5
We do have that now. They just haven't broken out yet. But Joba will likely be more of the same. He will return to the rotation, have good starts, have bad starts, and develop.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hughes actually started to succeed before Joba.
The big problem with Joba though is that after every bad start, people will whine about getting him back in the pen.
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Post by Chris on Apr 22, 2008 11:34:32 GMT -5
Uhhh, don't sugar coat this Balls. What we have right now goes beyond the occasional bad start / growing pains of a young pitcher. They are pitching POORLY consistently.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 22, 2008 11:42:07 GMT -5
Kennedy only has one year of pro ball under his belt. Struggles were inevitable. The bottom line is that he is behind the batters, and when that happens, he gets hit.
Hughes is also getting crushed by walking people. His first start was good. But over the last 3, he has walked 9, and struck out 6. 9 BBs in 10.1 IP.
You can't do that and expect a good game, unless of course you throw no hitters every start.
Kennedy is just as bad, with 13 walks in 14 innings.
Eiland and Girardi have their work cut out for them.
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