$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 4, 2008 11:34:22 GMT -5
Whoo hoo! They're both gone.
Kennedy has been demoted. Thank God. And he is upset about it, which makes it even better.
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Post by thecaptain15 on May 4, 2008 13:02:26 GMT -5
I know it is early and just as I have preached patience with the young arms while they are going bad I am not going to get overexhuburant with Melky's play at the start of this season but it does beg the question, as much as it pains me....... Was Balls the only one who was right? ?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 4, 2008 17:22:14 GMT -5
What, you think Melky is a super-duperstar all of a sudden? Yeah, the average is nice - just under .300. But he is on pace after 100 ABs for a 25 homer and 75 RBI season if he bats 500 times. Reading that....so what?
Even I did not deny he should hit 20 homers and bat around .280 in a season . That is NOT top notch in this day and age, and its expendable. He's doing fine, but he is not exactly setting the league on fire....there is no reason anyone outside of NY would even know who he is.
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Post by thecaptain15 on May 4, 2008 19:25:23 GMT -5
Tom no I never said a superstar, where in my post did it say that??? But I wasn't even thinking 25/85-90 and that seems to be possible now.....
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 4, 2008 20:06:38 GMT -5
Well, then YOU were not thinking that. I fully acknowledged he could and probably would do .280 with 20 jacks. At the same time, I said that those stats were not worth keeping him in a deal that would have bought us a Johan Santana. Also, those stats wont keep a guy in the major leagues as a guarantee.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on May 4, 2008 20:17:00 GMT -5
You called him a 4th OFer. 4th OFers don't hit .280/20/85.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 4, 2008 21:01:16 GMT -5
4th outfielders hit .280/20/85 when they play every day. We could get better production from a lot of different outfielders if Melky had been sent out of town. I dont think those numbers are worth keeping him around at the expense of bringing in some solid pitching. And I also think the fact that he is leading the team in home runs is embarrassing.
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Post by thecaptain15 on May 4, 2008 21:10:22 GMT -5
Tom he is fifth in the league in HRs right now and would be leading every team in HRs in the AL except the White Sox. Rays and Angels....so it really isn't embarrassing...the teams lack of hitting outside of Melky and Matsui is what has been embarrassiing.....
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on May 4, 2008 21:13:49 GMT -5
So does this mean Tom is willing to concede that Melky is not just a 4th OFer.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 4, 2008 21:46:30 GMT -5
No, he is still a fourth outfielder. Sorry, but a good month does not change anything for me. He has SIX home runs right now, not SIXTY. You guys are so quick to line up to suck his dick, when are you going to hang Robbie Cano from a tree for how bad he is doing? Or is the real Cano, just like you think this is the real Cabrera?
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on May 5, 2008 9:17:49 GMT -5
Given Cano's history of poor Aprils, and Melky's youth, the only reality is that we're seeing the real Giambi.
I agree that one good month doesn't change a thing, given that you were one of the people who lauded Giambi for his great April in years past. Same thing with Raul Mondesi. You were singing his praises after a great April.
Glad you learned.
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Post by Chris on May 5, 2008 10:54:55 GMT -5
I think Melky is exceeding all expectations right now. I think it would be ridiculous for ANY of us to say that expected Melky to be a .300 hitter and a top RBI guy. But, having said that, I don't think that it's out of the realm of possibility that the "real" Melky may very turn out to be a .290-.300 type guy.
Cano has always pissed me off with his nonchalant attitude in the field, and I think may he sort of justified that with his bat. Well, don't look now, but he fucking sucks. The whole point of shipping Soriano off was that his defense was too poor to accept given his inconsistencies at the dish. Well at least Soriano was inconsistent. Cano is non-consistent and with the shitty defense to boot. I think this guy misses someone like Bowa around to kick him in his ass.
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Post by MSBNYY on May 5, 2008 12:26:27 GMT -5
I miss having Bowa around for that reason, but Girardi isn't exactly Mr. Calm, and I would think he should be able to yell at Cano as well.
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Post by Chris on May 5, 2008 12:45:18 GMT -5
There's a problem when ONE major leaguer requires ONE non-roster employee of the team in order to do his job.
I thought the same of Roger Clemens and Giambi's "personal assistants."
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Post by sancho231 on May 5, 2008 12:50:18 GMT -5
I thought the same of Roger Clemens and Giambi's "personal assistants."
what? you want them to inject them selfs?
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Post by thecaptain15 on May 5, 2008 17:36:51 GMT -5
Sancho don't you roll your own? ?
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Post by Chris on May 7, 2008 11:10:40 GMT -5
Last Night:
Kennedy gave up only one hit in 7 1/3 scoreless innings in Scranton's 4-0 win over Charlotte. The only other baserunner Kennedy allowed was hit by a pitch.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 7, 2008 11:14:59 GMT -5
Which many are speculating is a sign he is lacking gumption. Sounds like he may be intimidated of major league hitters, and is back in his comfort zone when he is back on the farm. Even Kay and company were kicking that idea around last night.
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Post by Chris on May 7, 2008 11:19:10 GMT -5
Yeah, that's kinda what I thought. The ole' content to be a big fish in a small pond syndrome.
OK, he threw damn near 8 innings of perfect ball in Triple A. You would think that might translate to at least a decent line in a major league game...but he was putrid.
The thing that really sucks about it is, what do you work on? Clearly the mechanics and the know-how is there....so if the guy can't psychologically get over the hump, then what?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 7, 2008 11:32:12 GMT -5
Whats scary about him is he said a lot of the wrong things on the way out, and alarm bells apparently have started going off in the system. He complained that he could get away with "working things out" downstairs, but in New York everything is "under the microscope" and the "world may end" if he has some bad starts.
Um, this is New York. Get used to that.
People are already questioning his makeup. And its funny that a great performance like yesterdays actually is tempered by the disparity from that and his starts with the big club.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on May 7, 2008 11:37:53 GMT -5
Um, the guy is 22 years old with ONE year of pro ball under his belt. Maybe this demotion pissed him off and he took it out on AAA. Let's see what happens when he gets back up. The fact that he pitched well is a GOOD thing.
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Post by Chris on May 7, 2008 11:39:14 GMT -5
I heard that too. That was a shitty comment on his part. Paul O'Neill spoke to that point as well, saying pretty much what you said, Tom - Get used to it!
This is major league baseball. What does he think...if he pitches for the Reds he can suck and won't be criticized? What, maybe the Rangers don't mind a pitcher with a ERA approaching double digits??? Get real, Kennedy - you want to be a major league pitcher, it doesn't matter where you go, you need to perform.
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Post by Chris on May 7, 2008 11:41:25 GMT -5
The fact that he pitched well is a good thing, Balls, but maybe not as good as you would like it to mean.
Like I said, if he went down to Triple A and pitched decent, but the coaching staff noticed some mechanical flaws that need work, that's fine. Apparently his mechanics are hunky dory! You can't coach someone into mental toughness. That's a worry.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 7, 2008 11:44:37 GMT -5
Maybe this demotion pissed him off and he took it out on AAA
Eh, maybe he should have let his fourth of fifth disgusting performance in a row piss him off, and took it out on the next major leaguers he faced.
If it takes a trip to the minors to wake you up, wow...just wow.
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Post by Chris on May 7, 2008 11:54:17 GMT -5
What about this? Maybe he just not a major league caliber pitcher.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on May 7, 2008 11:59:12 GMT -5
I think it's just too early to write a guy off, in early May, when he's 22. I'm NOT saying that this one start proves he's the man. But remember, this guy is 22 and had a fairly easy go of it until now.
Mickey Mantle was sent down to the minors after a shitty major league debut. Like Kennedy, he came up with a TON of hype. In fact, with Mantle it was WORSE.
Not trying to compare Kennedy to Mantle, as Kennedy does not even come close to having the potential that Mantle had. But the point is that Kennedy is just a KID.
Sometimes a kick in the ass is needed to turn you around. And even when he was pitching bad, he still had job security. I'm not saying that's right, but I do think that having him earn his way back to the big club is a good thing.
22 year olds can be stupid. Let him pitch like this for a few more starts and see how he does on his return.
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Post by Furious D on May 7, 2008 12:09:40 GMT -5
When Kennedy was first signed, there were questions about his stuff, but all I would hear about was this guys maturity on the mound. That he pitched like he was beyond his years.
Now, it's turned all around and people are excusing his immaturity because he is just a kid...
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on May 7, 2008 12:36:00 GMT -5
Maturity on the mound doesn't change the fact that he is still just a kid. It's VERY rare that a pitcher hits the majors at that age. They usually get more than one year of seasoning in the minors. Pettitte was a year older than Kennedy when he started. Rivera was 25 years old.
Even mature people have growing pains. I do believe the kid has the makeup to reach his projections. As has been pointed out, that's a #3-#4 starter.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 7, 2008 13:02:27 GMT -5
I do believe the kid has the makeup to reach his projections. As has been pointed out, that's a #3-#4 starter. And if his cap is expected to be that of only a 3 or 4 starter, there is even more a reason to show no patience with him. And absolutely no reason to rush him. This guy is not going to win you a division, sorry. He profiles as a Jeff Suppan / Paul Byrd type, at his BEST. His stuff is terribly average. He has to be "on" every time he pitches.
He is getting way too much play, and we are discussing him way too much for what he is. He is a staff-filler. You know who a lot of scouts compare him to? Remember Brad Halsey? You know where Halsey is? Last I read of him he was being released from the Oakland A's system.
Kennedy needs to pitch his ass off to warrent this amount of attention.
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Post by MSBNYY on May 7, 2008 13:36:38 GMT -5
He needs to pitch his ass off anyway.
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