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Post by grover on Oct 12, 2006 13:52:22 GMT -5
That fued is legendary. Some say top 5, even THEE BEST, ever.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 12, 2006 13:56:08 GMT -5
Count me in with those who think it is THEE BEST.
Anyone who does not believe me can take a walk through my video collection and get back to me after watching the matches these teams had and the crazy wild angles in front of rabid fans on and off for just about 7 years, and tell me why they dont agree. They wont be able to.
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 12, 2006 14:28:34 GMT -5
And that's my complint about wrestling, the feuds. They seem so qucik, even quicker than from when I first started watching.I liked when they really stretched out feuds and had a title invoved cause it made a change that much more significant.
As for best feud ever, DX vs Ken Shamrock. no I'm kidding, I don't even think I've witnessed a feud that's better than feuds I've never seen. Yeah it sounds stupid but it's true.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 12, 2006 14:34:50 GMT -5
I agree that they have killed off the idea of longterm feuds. In fact, when guys even battle one another on "3 PPVs in a row" the pundits complain its the same old thing. It sucks. Michael Hayes and Ted Dibiase had a feud that went on over a decade in a whole bunch of different promotions.
I enjoyed Ken Shamrock in the WWF. I liked his intensity. I have to be honest and I dont remember anything he did with DX per se, but I surely remember his stint with McMahon's Corporate thug group.
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Post by grover on Oct 12, 2006 14:46:07 GMT -5
Well, back then they have PPV's every few months. The WWE had 4 PPVs back in the day. Once you won rubmls, it was a fued unitl you won the belt later on at Wrestlemania.
I like long fueds, but I'd like to see one or two really, long fueds.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 12, 2006 14:55:33 GMT -5
Edge and Cena have been going at it since January. I think that feud has been strong all the way through, but a ton of people are crying that its boring and stale that they "keep fighting."
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 12, 2006 15:07:19 GMT -5
Yeah but now that's done. It also sucks too cause after a 3 month feud, if there isn;'t some kind of cage or cell match then it's stale. Back in the day you'd have a street fight, or a lumberjack match way before you even come close to the dreaded cage matches. The fact that the casual wrestlings fans attention span can't last years for a feuid, the cram them all up. I think it'd be better to book like that, especially now cause you have the split brands so the longer you drag angles out, the slower you give away big money main event ppv and buyrates.
Tom the Shamrock DX stuff happened December of 97, I think that's the year Shamrock won King of the Ring so they gave him a title push against Michaels. This is also the time Triple H was doing in ring work with Slaughter, cause DX always made fun of Slaughter and his chin and spit. Lots of comedy, one week Shamrock got Michaels in the ankle lock, so the next week Michaels comes out in a wheel chair and demonstrates how he will never tap to it because Shamrock messed his ankle up so bad, he then proceeds to start twisting his foot all the way around, goes on to say how his ankle can be twisted around and it won't hurt. Really bad explaining it but seeing him do it, that much better. Look around December or so, def after Suvivor Series, The Montreal Incident.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 12, 2006 15:10:38 GMT -5
Oh, I'll get there...I am working chronilogically, and I am at the end of 96 right now. With the baseball playoffs, the hockey, and the season premieres, my casual tape perusals have taken a back seat, but I'll get there. I really liked Shamrock in the WWF. Remember his "sister" Ryan?
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 12, 2006 15:18:08 GMT -5
That was a whole IC feud with Val Venis I beleive. I loved the match where Shamrock screams at Ryan to hit him. Just screaming"Slap me Slap me." I have to admit, while he seemed ut of place then, he was in some memorable stuff. But he was too UFC, and he couldn't deal with the polotics, especiilly since the Clique(or DX in this case) had too much stroke. If you think about it, all the angles leading up to he big boom in wretling, the attitude boom had Kev, Hall and Kid running nWo and WCW, and HBK and HHH, DX running shit on RAW. The clique ran wrestling. Scott Hall has a nice 5 part torch talk with Wade Keller which I love. And it's long, def going to 6 or 7. You'd enjoy it since you're up to that now and it the latest part he talks about his firat Nitro appearance. He's a great interview if not for the sheer fact I'm a clique mark.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 13, 2006 7:39:27 GMT -5
Oh, I'm all over this Hall interview. I'm a Torch VIP, so I have access to it on audio. I am able to download it into my MP3 and listen to it on the train ride into the city while I chug my coffee. Hearing it, rather than reading it, adds that much more.
Its also interesting to hear the "other" opinions regarding the clique. There is an excellent Torch talk going up now, reprinted from 1996, with Shane Douglas. The stories he is telling about how they were manipulating backstage....well, I have read a ton of these types of stories and I can understand why the Clique was really frowned upon by most of the boys.
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 13, 2006 12:28:50 GMT -5
Good, fuck them. No one else was more money, or stole the show more than the guys in the clique. I love the Franchise, but his stupid teacher gimmick sucked and got shit well desered for it. But it's def ne of the torch talk with Hall is one of the best I'e ever read.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 13, 2006 12:33:04 GMT -5
You think the teacher gimmick was his idea? You think that is what he wanted to do with the character when it was forced upon him??
When he was originally signed Vince told him they were going to model a character based on his "Franchise" character.
And you can say what you want about the clique, but when there are stories about them in a hotel room calling Vince telling him to fire Pierre cause he wanted to lose by a "small package" instead of a "Razors Edge" in his hometown on a card he was helping to promote to save face....well, that is the kind of crap which caused people to hate them.
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 13, 2006 13:50:59 GMT -5
And the only ones to draw better than the clique was Taker and Bret. Why shouldn't the money guys have stroke? Fuck Razor was one of the most over guys EVER, to never win the wwf title. And he didn't care, it was about being over, and who was more over than the guys in the clique? All these stupid gimkicks, by choice or not couldn't get over so what's so bad about the clique running shit? They were trying to draw money and they did it better than anyone else then.I love in the torch talk they ask Hall did he think he had a lot of heat with a lot of people cause of the clique and he said he hoped so. Fucking A. No one could go out there and steal the show like Nash, Hall, Kid HHH and HBK so why shouldn't they have stroke with Vince?
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Post by sancho231 on Oct 17, 2006 15:07:57 GMT -5
Enjoyed Cryme Tyme Right up untill they got in the Ring. they work pretty sloppy. but great Chirsma and skits witrh King Booker
just rewatched the macth and i gotta asay that is an nice finshing move
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 17, 2006 19:27:04 GMT -5
Actually, I thought the finishing move was the weakest part. But Cryme Tyme arguably stole the show. Good gimmick.
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 18, 2006 1:47:36 GMT -5
I'm on the fence with the finisher. Totally drawn out and maped(sp)to a point where while it was better than a high low(which I don't hate) it still wasn't as good as the way they move in the ring. Not agile, but their high energy made it feel more connected(gay as it sounds). So while the finisher wasn't a grat double team move, their persona in the ring more than made up for it.
It's kinda silly to assume which belt will be moved(temp) for the triple threat match but despite "fan" involvment how could a match can they have? While it makes more sense to have a bigger payoff for ECW to have RVD win in December, no way Show should be in that match over RVD. Even if RVD has to job. Either way, how long till there is an Undisputed match?
I'll be thr first to admit, the DX act is corny and tiresom, HHH still has it, at least more than HBK, but it's redundant at times. That said, if merch is so big they need to drag on the DX reunion, who better than Edge and Orton?We all said besides SS and the McMahons would feud with them? We kinda knew it'd get old, so they threw em in there with the Highlanders. But who else will feud with them? Well mix/match team of Edge and Orton is the best you're gonna get(even though they are filling in for the aborted nWo plan). The segment was funny, as funny as they've been, although HBK was over the top. I like it.
Everything else, filler and mid card stuff, that get live tv time, but never furthers anyone of pushes the IC champ.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 18, 2006 6:03:27 GMT -5
Maybe they just fucked up the finisher. It really looked like a one person move, with the other guy just running around him. My favorite tag team finisher was Total Elimination. That, and the Hart Foundation finisher where Neidhart would hold the guy up and Bret would give a flying clothesline.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 18, 2006 9:09:55 GMT -5
Cryme Tyme came in with bad reviews of their wrestling as it was. You will see them in short bursts. Spirt Squad was bumping all over for them, wait until they get in the ring with another stinker tag team like The Highlanders.
I also think it is stupid for them to wrestle in those Timberland boots. There is a reason people wear "wrestling boots."
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Post by grover on Oct 18, 2006 12:33:35 GMT -5
And the only ones to draw better than the clique was Taker and Bret. Why shouldn't the money guys have stroke? Fuck Razor was one of the most over guys EVER, to never win the wwf title. And he didn't care, it was about being over, and who was more over than the guys in the clique? All these stupid gimkicks, by choice or not couldn't get over so what's so bad about the clique running shit? They were trying to draw money and they did it better than anyone else then.I love in the torch talk they ask Hall did he think he had a lot of heat with a lot of people cause of the clique and he said he hoped so. Fucking A. No one could go out there and steal the show like Nash, Hall, Kid HHH and HBK so why shouldn't they have stroke with Vince? Kinda the way Hogan used his stroke for two decades and you ripping him to shreads left and right? |
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Post by Chris on Oct 18, 2006 13:26:48 GMT -5
(sorry...this message is inappropriate for this thread...I was just reminded by some else's post about an event they attended)
The only wrestling events I'd ever been to was WCW Halloween Havoc in Vegas during the NWO days...and the Beach Bash (or some name that had something to do with the beach) in San Diego in which the Dennis Rodman tag team wrestled the Karl Malone tag team...I think Rodman was paired with Hogan...can't remember who Malone was paired with.
The funny thing about the Halloween Havoc match was that Curt Henning got his ass kicked by...I'm thinking maybe Ric Flair....I mean he got pummeled and was taken out on a stretcher. This event took place at the MGM Grand. Anyone who has been to Vegas knows there's a pedestrian bridge crossing the strip connecting the MGM to NY/NY....so after the match, I crossed the bridge only to see Curt Henning at a Black Jack table, sucking down a Silver Bullet, shoo-ing away autograph seekers telling them "I'm trying to relax here." Just another lack of continuity on the part of pro-wrestling. I mean, they can at least TRY to perpetuate the illusion of reality by not letting their guy who just got wheeled out on a stretcher go party it up on the town 20 minutes later.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 18, 2006 13:51:05 GMT -5
But what better way to forget your troubles?
I was just watching that tag match with the NBA guys a few weeks back. As for that Havoc, it was 97. Hennig actually "won" that match, according to my trusty Wrestling Almanac.
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Post by Chris on Oct 18, 2006 14:07:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it was one of those, after the three-count, bitter loser cheats somehow and kicks winners ass scenarios.
And why did it not surprise me that "Mr. Perfect" was a Coors Light guy!?!?!
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 18, 2006 14:41:08 GMT -5
His ability to recover was PERFECT. I bet he got a 21 on every hand.
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 18, 2006 16:03:39 GMT -5
Grover, the difference between the clique and Hogan is that the guys in the clique had no problem doing a job and putting over guys that deserved it.
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Post by sancho231 on Oct 19, 2006 1:30:08 GMT -5
Thats fuckin malarky, James HBK handed belts over twice cause he didint want to do the Job.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 19, 2006 7:13:31 GMT -5
Come on, Sancho. He just needed to "find his smile."
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 19, 2006 8:53:49 GMT -5
He did for Big Sid, then won the belt back at the Rumble battling the flu. Hogan would have called off the match with his fake knee injuries.I'm not saying HBK was a dick, but he did more jobs that Hogan EVER did. I thought really hard about this, and name the last 3 jobs Hogan did. A few guys after he won the title like Angle, Taker and HHH, wow way to give guys that rub tjat needed it. You gotRock at WM then Goldberg. And I would have understood if Hogan refused to drop the belt to Goldberg but he did. And I think the last time before than was Warrior is the worst match in the history of wrestling. I'm sure you can nitpick any instance HBK was an asshole, but those are a few moments compared to Hogans entire carreer.
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Post by globix on Oct 19, 2006 9:27:02 GMT -5
how about when Hogan took losses in 2 consecutive weeks to AA?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 19, 2006 9:31:39 GMT -5
Hogan even did a job to Kidman in WCW, to further the New Blood angle.
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Post by grover on Oct 19, 2006 9:34:37 GMT -5
James, Hall and Nash helped ruin WCW with their antics. They refused to lose, and when they were pinned they got Bischoff to get them the tag straps back. Nash went a whole year without being pinned. Cena was gaining steam when he first showed up and HHH moved him to antoher show because he didn't like him. Same goes for RVD, who's been over for years and only recently got a title run.
I love them and all, but they pulled the same shit dude. ALL of them do. Hogan, Michaels, Hunter, Flair. ALL of them.
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