MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 19, 2006 9:40:30 GMT -5
After his match with the Rock, Hogan practically spent a year putting over other wrestlers.
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Post by grover on Oct 19, 2006 9:51:58 GMT -5
Yeah, but say what you will about everyone else, Hogan was the worst with the backstage demands.
That said, they all do it.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 19, 2006 10:01:37 GMT -5
Sure, but he had the right to be. He was Hulk Hogan. He shouldn't job to second rate wrestlers like HBK or the Genius.
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Post by Chris on Oct 19, 2006 13:57:19 GMT -5
I don't think that Nash refusing to lose is all that bad.
Remember when Goldberg first surfaced and went on some ungodly winning streak. He was here and gone in a flash...but his no frills style, the invincibility factor and never losing really appealed to a lot of people, including me. I have been a wrestling fan on and off, sometimes more enthusiastic and sometimes I've been out of the loop altogether...but that Goldberg run broke one of my lulls in wrestling enthusiasm and turned me into something I had never been before - a Pay Per View Purchaser almost each and every month. I hadn't been as passionate a fan of a wrestler since way back in the Road Warriors days of the early/mid 80s...and they appealed to me for the same reasons...they were nearly invincible and they were menacing.
I think wrestling should make more attempts to get away from the outlandish characters and create more athletic, "I Let My Wrestling Do The Talking" badasses like they once had.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 19, 2006 14:26:59 GMT -5
I think wrestling should make more attempts to get away from the outlandish characters and create more athletic, "I Let My Wrestling Do The Talking" badasses like they once had.
TNA's Samoa Joe is one of those guys. He looks like a fat slob, a train wreck, but he's all business.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 19, 2006 14:28:13 GMT -5
Goldberg is the second most overrated wrestler in history. He sucked. The only one worse was the Ultimate Warrior.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 19, 2006 14:42:58 GMT -5
Not his fault. I give him a bye. He never even wanted to be a wrestler, and hated it. Loved the money, though. And people bought into his act, so he did what he had to do to get by in the ring, nothing more. He came in in his late 30s from football, of course he did not know how to wrestle.
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 19, 2006 15:12:43 GMT -5
Fuck that bye. Size and power, WCW got lucky with one guy who fit the Hogan mode who wasn't Hulk Hogan. They had a guy who would sell/no sell for an entire match, false finish a special move and then bury the oppoent. When Nash won I was so fucking happy. I ordered it just to see him lose and I never ordered WCW.
Yeah, they're all the same to a certain extent but take Hogans run as champ and it's th worse, HBKS and HHHs, whatever HBK did the most jobs. And fuck Hulks last run because what else could he do but job? However, the only one he would have jobbed too was Taker for the belt at least. They booked him like they booked Mysterio.
But either way, during the big 90s boom, the clique ran shit so fuck the rest.
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Post by Chris on Oct 19, 2006 15:15:05 GMT -5
Wasn't one of the matches in Goldberg's winning streak an actual Battle Royale type match at Sturgis?
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Post by grover on Oct 19, 2006 15:50:25 GMT -5
What about DX running through the entire heel division, no selling, and not putting ANYone over ATM?
Shit, HBK is the only one who sells anything. The Clique never put anyone over.
And things like Nash not losing is what killed WCW. They lose the belts and then get it back a sneaky way. They did it a few times, and fans got tired of it. Also thorw in the fact that he's a lazy wrestler with 4 moves, and you got yourself a changed channel.
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 19, 2006 16:33:57 GMT -5
So Hall, Kid and HHH don't sell at all? Who made Batista look better that ever for 3 straight ppvs? The same guy who dropped the belt to Goldberg when he didn't really have to. It would have been stuid and I think Greenberg said he wanted to win the belt or he wasn't signing. So all the one clique guy had to say was no and Greenberg never would have been signed. But oh yeah, Trips said that'd be bad business, I just want to go over one time before dropping it. Not assanine considering Greenberg was one of the biggest WCW guys during he sttitude era.
And whenever Nash and Hall did a job, Razor got pinned. I'll agree with you about Nash, but I will add he is/was better than most big guys at that time,
Oh and Kid never sold or jobbed to anyone names D'lo Brown or Shane McMahon or fucking Scotty 2 Hotty. Just my imaginary days of a kid watching wrestling. HBK was not the only one to sell to anyone.
As for the DX now, exactly what Trips said, what Tag division? What heel division? Spirit Squad? The McMahons? Edge and Orton is the only real heel team they've been put up against. Cade and Murdoch havn't had enough TV time to be taken seriously. Yeah, it isn't smart but it'd be stupid to do it any other way. And only cause this is the first time the DX of HBK and HHH have been face. When they keep DX going but have seperate feuds and never put anyone over then you can say something about D killing he heel division. Honestly, if you were booking Raw in what scenario do you put Kenny and Mikey over HHH and Michaels?
The clique runs shit, and thanks to Trips knocking up Steph(hopefully a boy isn't too far away) the clique will be running shit for a long long time. And WWE will still be burying factions like nWO and any other promotion(no disrespect to the old ECW).
And really, how long was Hogans run compared to HBKS? Live syndicated shows aside, didn't Hogan go years without losing a match that wasn't by countut or DQ?
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Post by grover on Oct 19, 2006 16:43:55 GMT -5
How would it be stupid to establish superstars? That's why the show is grwoing stale, because the only thing worth watching is when they are not on the screen no-selling.
Dude, I'm not saying Hogan is better in that department, but the clique have been terrible with that over the years, and everyone pretty much hates them for it.
Shit, you were calling for RVD tog et the belt for years. Guess who doesn't like RVD? HHH.
And HHH used to put on some great matches, but he hasn't been the same since his knee got fucked upm and now all he does is his HHH no-sell gag.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 25, 2006 17:57:39 GMT -5
Regal's running buddy Dave Taylor is ALREADY hurt, tearing a meniscus in his knee or something. He will need surgery. I guess thats what happens when you bring in a guy in his late 40s. Bland as he was, I liked Dave Taylor, and this new version of "The Blue Bloods."
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 27, 2006 12:49:55 GMT -5
wwe.com has a nice blurb on Harry Smith--son of the British Bulldog. He's 20 years old, and has been signed. I wonder what brand he will be on. I would guess Smackdown, but it's a crap shoot.
He said he didn't want to be Bulldog Jr., but I would expect a tie in. Should be interesting.
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 27, 2006 13:05:49 GMT -5
No chance. Like Nick Hogan will be anything other than Hulks son if he were to become a wrester.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 27, 2006 13:28:00 GMT -5
Dont misunderstand the guy. He is not saying he does not want a link to his Dad (he even dresses like his Dad in the ring so thats not the point) he is simply saying he hopes to forge his own name in the business, and be known as more than just Davey Boy Smith's son.
Its an admirable way to go about it, but also straight out of "what you say in an interview 101"
Apparently he is being groomed for the Raw roster, and has been wrestling dark matches over there for months. Fact that he has yet to appear on TV (except for being part of a group breaking up a brawl a few weeks back) is not promising in regards to any push he gets.
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Post by grover on Oct 28, 2006 12:25:23 GMT -5
Well, he IS only 20. Vince will only give a young guy a push if he's some super monster who the fans are reacting to. He MIGHT do well, or he might be Scott Putski.
BTW: Wathcing the Newcastle/Charlton soccer game and the music they had on right before the 2nd half started was Kurt angles WWE entrance. LOL!
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 30, 2006 13:50:16 GMT -5
The Bulldog link will certainly get him in the door, but there's no point in bringing him in to be a jobber type. If he's not good enough to be a superstar on the level of his dad or higher, he's not worth bringing in.
And I don't think Nick Hogan will ever make it as a wrestler. He would be like a David Flair.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 30, 2006 14:56:23 GMT -5
If he's not good enough to be a superstar on the level of his dad or higher, he's not worth bringing in.
Thats a silly thing to say. There is room for people not on the level of the late British Bulldog, who was a main-event player. If his son can be on the level of a Shelton Benjamin or even a Jamie Noble in regards to in-ring push, why not? They need guys to fill the roster. His name alone will add to his lustre.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 30, 2006 15:48:28 GMT -5
There are plenty of people out there that can do that. You want the son of a main eventer to be as good or surpass the father. See Randy Orton or the Rock. If he can't hack it, then he's only there because of his name, which would make him David Flair.
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Post by grover on Oct 30, 2006 16:51:06 GMT -5
Well, he has to be the jobber type. He needs to pay his dues for him to be a better wrestler. The Rock is a one-in-a-million case where a guy comes on and catches fire. Sure they WANT them to be big, but you can't just throw a guy into the big leagues without some learning first. Why do you think Randy Orton ran into problems? Same goes for quite a few young guys who catch fire quick.
David Flair couldn't hack it because he's not built for it. Smith's kids might, but first, they need to pay dues and learn.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 30, 2006 17:13:28 GMT -5
No doubt you have to pay the dues. But Randy Orton for example, was NEVER a jobber. I would think dues paying comes by going through the ladder, like through OVW.
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 30, 2006 21:51:44 GMT -5
Um, take away the pig tails and Mickey James is really hot to me, the way her hair was, i wanted to bend her over the announce table and ive her some repressed memories.
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Post by grover on Oct 31, 2006 0:13:10 GMT -5
Well, with Orton, I think they were trying to catch the next star ASAP.
thinka bout it, within the span of a few years they got two guys shoot to th top and becaome best ever talent: Rock and Angle. You know they will push some guys to see if they can hack it to fill the void left by those two.
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Post by cactusjames on Oct 31, 2006 2:21:49 GMT -5
Orton was a temp champ, they just wanted to get rid of Brock being the youngest champ ever. They knew he was losing to HHH the next month, he wasnt groomed the same as Batista in the sense Orton never went over HHH as many times as HHH
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 31, 2006 7:07:31 GMT -5
I was not happy with HHH beating Orton for the belt that quickly. Same with Edge. Edge should have more time with the belt. I know Orton obviously had some attitude issues, but he's still a top level guy and will be for years to come.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 31, 2006 8:36:50 GMT -5
Randy Orton for example, was NEVER a jobber
Sorry, but yes he was. He came in as a whitebread babyface that the fans turned on and booed a little bit. The biggest angle he was involved in was one where somehow he ended up with Jim Ross' hat on his head. He was in opening matches, got pinned a few times, and they had no immediate plans for him. Then he got hurt and they started that "Get Well Randy!" campaign where for weeks he would come on and give insincere speeches. That turned him full heel, and the WWE ran with it.
He did NOT come in with any sort of grand visions. In fact, he was in OVW for quite a while before he even got a call up.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 31, 2006 8:53:52 GMT -5
And that time in his career was so insignificant that it's forgotten by most except die hards. Rocky Maivia wasn't all that great either. But that changed once he became The Rock. The point is that using Smith as a jobber just would be a waste. If he's not good enough, keep him in OVW.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 31, 2006 8:58:08 GMT -5
And that time in his career was so insignificant that it's forgotten by most except die hards
It doesnt matter who remembers it, it proves your initial point wrong.
As for the Rock, he DID come in with a major push, and the WWE had much higher hopes for him at the time than they did for Orton later on. Rock debuted at a Survivor Series, and was the sole Survivor for his team. He was winning main events on Raw a couple of weeks later. Problem was, he was being pushed down the fans gullets, and they were not buying it. Enter the Nation of Domination and a hard edge, and the Rock blossomed.
But Rocky Maivia came in with a lot more hoopla than Randy Orton did. Get your facts straight.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 31, 2006 9:46:41 GMT -5
The point is that people like Randy Orton and Rocky Maivia are NOT jobbers and it's a waste to treat them as such.
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