The Benoit Thread

[MSBNYY]

I don't think too many people are going to remember Benoit as anything other than a murdering sack of shit.

His career is irrelevant.

From what I'm reading, roid rages don't last as long as it took for Benoit to kill his son, which apparently happened as much as a day later.

[$heriff Tom]

Obviously Benoit was sick in the head. I dont buy the roid rage defense either. Its funny, but stories about Benoit were always that he was aloof at best, mean at worst. Well, now you can see things differently....in fact, just last night Edge admitted that after friends of his would meet Benoit they would invariably ask him, "how can you be friends with HIM" but Edge shrugged it off as Chris being Chris.

He was simply not a nice guy, and harbored worse tendencies than anyone could imagine.

He WILL be remembered in wrestling. I hate to say it, but he influenced hundreds of wrestlers, including many top names. He was flawless in a lot of facets. Just a couple of weeks ago Torch Audio did a "best wrestler of all time" discussion, and he was ALL OVER IT.

But, this said, when his name comes up, great wrestler or groundbreaking wrestler will never come up first. Murderer, baby-killer, things like that, will.

[$heriff Tom]

Torch reporting that Benoits son, according to a caller to a news outlet in Vancouver, had something called Fragile X syndrome....I dont necessarily agree, but in a further analysis some will grab on to that as Benoit mindlessly thinking he needed to kill his son once he set upon murdering his wife and killing himself...

This is all from the TORCH website, thank you to them.

woman tells News 1130 in Vancouver, B.C. that Chris Benoit's son Daniel had a condition called Fragile X syndrome. Wikipedia describes the symptoms:

Aside from intellectual disability (mental retardation), prominent characteristics of the syndrome include an elongated face, large or protruding ears, flat feet, larger testicals in men (macroorchidism), and low muscle tone. Behavioral characteristics may include stereotypic movements (e.g., hand-flapping) and atypical social development, particularly shyness and limited eye contact. Some individuals with the fragile X syndrome also meet the diagnostic criteria for autism. While full mutation males tend to present with severe intellectual disability, the symptomology of full mutation females runs the gamut of minimally affected to severe intellectual disability, which may explain why females are underdiagnosed relative to males.

The woman interviewed for the News 1130 story says her family was in contact with the Benoits, but they didn't want to go public with the disease and chose to keep things low profile. She added that families can be torn apart by the disease because it's very difficult to find help and support. She said, "You as a parent have to go out there and find what's available and it's not easy --they don't tell you."


W.K. Analysis: This may explain why Daniel was taking growth hormone injections. It also may shed light onto why Chris didn't want someone else raising his son and made the fateful decision to kill him. As irrrational and twisted as it may sound, he may have felt he was saving his son from the double-blow of losing his parents through a murder-suicide and being subject to being raised by people who didn't understand or care for his condition.

[grover]

You know, while they were showing all three for the tribute, I said to myself "Holy shit Benoit's son has a huge head" and I guess that's where it came from

[IronHorse4]

Domi reminds me of the punkers in the 80s who wore swastikas or pretended to comprehend and support communism for no other reason than to piss people off. It's very Bohemian of you Domi, but sorry - been there done that - you're about 20 years too late. You crazy rebel, you.

Touch 'em all, ch0....you just went yard.

[MSBNYY]

Check out the timeline of events on WWE.com when you get a chance.

[$heriff Tom]

Couple of addendums.

Serious consideration that Benoit put his son out in a chokehold, quite possibly the "Crippler Crossface." His son was found on his stomach, and the bruising in his throat was found to be consistent with that that could occur in that move. As for Nancy, he seems to have bound her feet and her hands, put his knee in her back, and yanked back with a cord.

Also, read into his sons condition. The kid was not only retarded, but this condition involves crazy behavior, banging head against walls, you name it. Very high pressure, and at the least it was at the root of a lot of the marital problems Benoit and Nancy were having.

[grover]

I think they handled things well to start out ECW. Vince gives a bit of a moving on speech, and they get things going with an entertaining match. Let's hope things get back to normal soon.

[MSBNYY]

That's the way to do it. The WWE is doing the best they can with a shit situation.

[$heriff Tom]

This just gets stranger and stranger...

From Foxnews.com...

An anonymous user operating a computer traced to Stamford, Conn. — home to World Wrestling Entertainment — posted an entry to pro wrestler Chris Benoit's Wikipedia.com biography announcing the death of his wife Nancy more than 14 hours before police in suburban Atlanta said they found her body along with her husband's and their 7-year-old son, FOXNews.com has learned.

Employees at Wikipedia.com said the posting went live on their site on Monday at 12:01 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Police, however, said they found the bodies Monday at 2:30 p.m. EDT.

Wikipedia.com's computers are set to record Standard and Universal Time, a spokesman told FOXNews.com.

The posting reads: “Chris Benoit was replaced by [[Johnny Nitro]] for the ECW Championship match at Vengeance, as Benoit was not there due to personal issues, stemming from the death of his wife Nancy.”

The posting was apparently made in reference to a scheduled appearance by Benoit on Sunday night at an Extreme Championship Wrestling event in Texas, with the last phrase noted in red to indicate an edit made to the original entry.

An employee from Wikipedia.com told FOXNews.com that he called and left a message with investigative authorities in Fayetteville, Ga., at around 11 a.m. EDT on Tuesday, after the posting was brought to the attention of the St. Petersburg, Fla.-based Web site.

[MSBNYY]

That could be a hell of a coincidence, a lucky guess, or something wrong with the time stamp.

[TripleThreatJYP]

Its looks as though there was tremendous stress involving the care of his son. Looks like Nancy wanted him around more to help with the special care of their son. Not that this in anyway dismisses his disgusting murder of the two of them but now that more facts are coming out maybe the roid rage talk will go away.

[jwmcc]

If it wasn't something done because of the steroids would it not make the whole tragedy even worse?
Jw

[$heriff Tom]

Not for the WWE. With all the steroid/drug stuff, there is a lot of blood on their hands. Bottom line, this one is on Benoit. Obviously a sick mind.

Balls, nothing wrong with the time-stamp. Wikipedia themselves are verifiying everything.

[TripleThreatJYP]

The bottom line is I hope the Feds get involved in trying to clean up WWE....its long overdue.

[MSBNYY]

The wikipedia thing may indeed be a hoax, perpetrated by someone with a history of fucking up wikipedia entries.

www.1wrestling.com/news/newsline.asp?news=29096

[Chris]

(Disclaimer - I don't intend this to be sarcastic or politically incorrect, it's just an observation).

The term coined in 1866 by Dr. John Langdon Down to describe the facial features of people who have Down's Syndrome is "Mongol" facial features - a reference to the very Asian-like epicant folds in the corners of the eyes and the broadening of the nose..so for the sake of brevity (and not to be rude) I will use the term.

I have known of and watched wrestling on and off for a few decades now and came to be familiar with Chris Benoit. I have always thought, since day one, that he himself displayed many of the "Mongoloid" facial features common in people with Down's Syndrome...as well as his..shall I say "abbreviated" body type (aka - stumpy). When I heard this morning that Benoit's kid had some significant level of mental retardation (don't know if it was Down's or not) immediately my first thought was...that's not a shock, look at Benoit himself. I can't help but think that the retardation in Benoit's son was passed down by Benoit himself. Not very relevant to the grisly crime, but an observation nonetheless.

[$heriff Tom]

Nice theories, but Benoits sons condition was passed on from the Mom's chromosomes. Fragile X is passed down from the Mother only. Benoit nor his family had any history of mental deficiencies, as they were.

In fact, when this mess started there was some speculation that Nancy did it, out of "guilt" for knowing Fragile X was passed to Daniel from her directly.

[Domi]

From Deadspin.com:

One positive out of this whole ordeal: This pretty much gives a definitive answer to the hotly debated, bong-induced "Would you rather have Roid Rage Strength or Retard Strength?" question. Juice it is.

[Chris]

A geneticist, I am not. Simply an observation...Benoit looked a bit "special"

And by "special" I mean, HE CAN DO ANYTHING (thanks, Sarah Silverman)

[$heriff Tom]

So last night I ran into one of those quandries. One of my habits is taping all these PPVs off of 24/7 I have not yet seen, then watching them a couple of matches at a time at my leisure. One of these is Armageddon 2006, the final PPV of the year last turn on the clock.

One of the matches is Benoit vs Chavo. While I am not at the point yet where I will go out of my way to seek a Benoit match, I am not at the point where I was going to FF by this one, either.

Couple of observations. I did have an unsettled feeling the whole time. Just a knot in my stomach. I am sure that will dampen in time, but I will never be able to watch one of his matches without a sense of disgust.

Its all a shame. Even this match, against the highly-average Chavo, was EXCELLENT. You could see in this match here while Benoit was the goods. Everything he did was crisp. The highlight was the sequence of EIGHT German Suplexes on Chavo. Thankfully he ended the match with the Sharpshooter, and I did not have to see the Crippler Crossface yet, which is still a likely way he did away with his son.

There was an uncomfortable backstory with this match, this was around the time Benoit "accidentially" knocked Chavo's manager Vicki off the ring-apron, and they were running a storyline where Vicki was scared to death of him, and JBL was playing it up, that he saw a "side of Benoit that I hate to know exists." You know, women beater....great. In one sequence Vicki clambered into the ring and fell on her ass, and frantically backpedaled away from a "stalking" Benoit screaming all the time.

Its sad that these matches will never be seen again without little things like that getting in the way as something totally else. But of course its sadder yet that 3 people, including a wife and a 7 year old boy, are dead.

[MSBNYY]

I know what you mean. I have similar annoying issues when I try to watch a Naked Gun movie with OJ. Murdering sack of shit.

[joetee316]

So the latest is that he used the crippler crossface to kill his son (which we all probably assumed) and the doctor will now be indicted on federal charges.

[Chris]

"So the latest is that he used the crippler crossface to kill his son"

That's documented? Somewhere a coroner's report states, "Cause Of Death - Crippler Crossface?" Short of that, I don't buy it. I assume we don't need to go over the whole "wrestling is fake" spiel. I'm looking at this "hold" right now, and there's nothing lethal about it. It resembles a true crossface, and having been a very poor freshman year high school wrestler and the younger brother of a very good state tournament qualifying high school wrestler, I can tell you that a crossface is a legit move in amateur wrestling that isn't at any time a "submission" hold...it's simply and arm-bar across the face to jar your opponents face to the side and allow you to grab his arm on the tricep area and flip him over and attempt to pin him. That's what a legit crossface is, anyway.

Again, looking at the "Crippler Crossface" photo....



...it's a gimmick made to look like a submission hold...there's no pressure on the neck or any other vital areas on the body. The only way I see the "Crippler Crossface" being a lethal move is if Benoit used a true amateur wrestling style crossface with such force that it broke the kids neck...and I'm not even sure that's possible if you are sticking to the true motion of legit crossface.

I suspect he probably choked the kid, and some zealous wrestling fans ran with that and created this dramatic idea of The Master Of The Crippler Crossface going on a maniacal murdering spree offing his victims with the lethal move.

[$heriff Tom]

I had mentioned this before. There was bruising on the childs arm and face that was "inconsistent." There was none on his throat, although the belief is that he was "strangled" in some way.

The authorities could not figure it out....until one of them saw a Benoit match, saw him slap on the Crossface, and said, "thats it!"

It fits the pattern of bruising. The only change is that it was modified, in that Benoit is believed to have been straddling his son on his knee, with the arm pinned back. This is NOT wrestling journalists talking, or overzealous fans - its the Coronor and the investigators who saw the body, which was face-down with bruising consistent with a Crossface move.

The last thing we all are are "overzealous wrestling fans." We are taking this to heart.

Here is more....

A choke hold was used to strangle the boy, rather than hands, because there's no bruising consistent with strangulation by hands" said Ballard(District attorney Scott Ballard).

The police investigators were perplexed by the nature of the bruising on Daniel, until one of them watched footage of a Benoit wrestling match, saw him using the move, and in looking closely, realized the bruising patterns on Daniel matched the application of the hold. Police were not sure if Benoit waited until his son was asleep to kill him, with the idea that in doing so, he wouldn't suffer as much. That is the only explanation anyone seems to have for him waiting so long between killings. Bibles were placed next to Nancy and Daniel's bodies.

There was bruising consistent with the crippler crossface on arm and his face. There were no bruises on his neck. The police don't believe, because of the size difference, that the hold was applied exactly as it would be in a pro wrestling match. Benoit would have been in more of a kneeling position, sort of straddling Daniel while using one leg to pull back on his arm. The reason they are publically calling it a chokehold in every media interview is because the police believe it's already a big enough circus around this case without the media jumping on the usage of a wrestling term or a wrestling finishing hold to describe how he killed his son

[Chris]

Well...ok so the bruising is consistent with move. But the fact remains that if the kid died of strangulation then it's not a result of the "Crippler Crossface" at least as we all came to know it from the wrestling matches. That's the only point I was trying to make really - that the "move" we all know, is not in reality, a submission move that cuts off breathing...much in the way that the "sleeper hold" applied in the way that pro wrestler's do would not really cause one to pass out. I guess my point is to not perpetuate the idea that Benoit was some sort of mythical lethal master of secret deadly submission holds - the only fear that someone like Benoit should strike in the average Joe if it were to come down to real street fight is simply that he's a big fuckin' dude who can physically pummel you with brute strength. But in my opinion, the Crippler Crossface is about as realistic as five point palm-exploding heart technique from Kill Bill - it's entertainment shtick. I agree with the hype and circus-like nature that would result of declaring that this kid was killed by a wrestling move. It would be ridiculous to cite "The Crippler Crossface" on a coroner's report.

Regardless...it's a brutal and very tragic story.

[$heriff Tom]

Look, he straddled his son, hooked his arm with his leg, and did a Crossface move on him - from all signs. CLOSE ENOUGH, and very disgusting. I dont get why you are writing this part of things off as entertainment schtick, when its more likely that someone not in his right mind was "living his gimmick" to the pathetic extreme.

[Chris]

Again Tom, I am not trying to detract from the tragic nature of the story.

ALL I attempted to do was difuse the notion that Benoit was in possession of some sort of lethal "move" as a result of his wrestling skill. If anything was lethal here it was his sheer brute strength. I can just see this story creeping its way into wrestling story lines....some other wrestler adopting the newly annointed "DEADLY Crippler Crossface" or something equally as distasteful....and then hordes of teenage wrestling fans everywhere ooooo'ing and ahhhhh'ing over the "lethal move." What we had was a whacked out guy who killed his wife and kid with sheer brute strength and a whole slew of of mental issues.

[$heriff Tom]

Ok, understood, but fact remains it appears he killed his son with a close approximation of the Crossface.

Anyway, this is the least of anyones worries right now, the crap is hitting the fan, bigtime....this doctor is in big trouble, and it spells trouble for the WWE in the longterm.

THANK YOU to wrestlingobserver.com for this...

--If the revelation that Chris Benoit was getting ten months worth of steroids every three to four weeks from Dr. Phil Astin is accurate, it is beyond devastating for WWE. U.S. attorney David Nahmias reported that on average, Benoit was getting a ten month supply of steroids every three to four week during a period from May 4, 2006, and May 9, 2007, from Dr. Astin. The April 10, 2007, drug test that Benoit passed was right in the middle of that period, which is why this charge is the most devastating to the company since the deaths themselves.

Whether fair or not, to the public, it is a complete credibility loss when it comes to the drug policy that the company can't afford at this time. And quite frankly, since Benoit was regularly tested during this entire one year period, it is impossible to have confidence in the drug policy with the release of this information. Benoit was off for several months in 2006 and likely not tested during this period, but he should have been tested at least four times minimum during a period it would appear he was taking heavy doses of steroids. As noted in this week's issue, he and his wife were arguing over his increased use of steroids at the same time he was subject to a drug testing policy.

The announcement that Benoit passed his 4/10 steroid test, even if he did, is one that can't hold up to public opinion with the revelation in this indictment, because it covers a period well into the Wellness policy. A key point of this is unlike with Balco, where they were using designer drugs that could beat the tests, Astin was prescribing Benoit regular steroids, so either the testing is incredibly flawed, Benoit had a way to easily beat the tests, or the tests themselves were a sham. I strongly believe the latter is not the case, but I also believe the latter will be the conclusion most will come to. This is the first time when I truly fear that wrestling as we know it not only will be undergoing great changes, but that as bad as Vince McMahon's reputation is in some circles, and even with his history of rebounding from negatives, this will tarnish it to a level that he may never live to fully turn around. There will be a far increased number of cries in the media over the next week, which have already started, to do something about the industry. Between the advertisers, sponsors, and those action figures with the muscular physiques, this is not a story going away soon.

[Ms. Jericho]

The Crippler Crossface could most certainly kill a seven year old child, particularly when that seven year old child is the same size as my four year old. If a 250 lb man locks his hands over the mouth and nose of a maybe 40 or 50 pound kid ( and his kid didn't look much bigger than that) it will kill him. They said Daniel was "smothered." Smothered means that something was press against his mouth and nose and he couldn't breathe, just like you could smother someone with a pillow. If he was strangled he would have had bruises on his neck.