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Post by Ms. Jericho on Apr 15, 2008 13:30:22 GMT -5
Dude, this is all that Brown chick's fault for bringing up the whole cape and scepter think in the first place. What an idiot!
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 15, 2008 13:36:05 GMT -5
I don't mean to treat Punk like an unknown. Of course he's more than that. I'm pretty sure there are several ECW people that I haven't even heard of. Punk is not one of them.
I'm just saying that his level of exposure is much greater on Raw. You don't use KOTR to introduce someone, but it can bring someone to another level. I've seen some of his pops for myself. I would think it would only help to get him on Raw permanently.
I also agree that the robe and crown aren't necessary. Obviously, it will be there for the winner that night, but not everyone uses it. See Austin, Steve.
Edge would be a great KOTR.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 15, 2008 13:40:16 GMT -5
In all honestly Balls, Edge probably needs it LESS THAN ANYONE.
In fact, this is best for someone floating askew, without an identity.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 15, 2008 14:03:37 GMT -5
It's not a question of needs. It's just that Edge is great and would roll with that one really well. I hope he gets the belt back soon. I'm getting tired of the Vicki angle, and would like to see Smackdown get another shakeup in the GM spot.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 15, 2008 16:10:17 GMT -5
Edge isn't getting the belt back anytime soon and Vicki isn't going anywhere. They get so much buzz and so much heat it'd be dumb. I think it'd only be good for Edge since no one man has ever won the KOTR twice. Edge would be able to get heat by throwing that in everyone's face but he can do that by putting whip cream all over himself so the KOTR is dumb for him.
And way to point out the obvious, EVERYONE gets more exposure on Raw. It's the highest rated wrestling show. That doesn't mean guys on other shows aren't as well known as the Orton's and Cena's. Batista is just as over as them, Edge is, Taker is, Punk is. Fuck even Kane is, it's why he has the ECW strap(poor Chavo). And why would he go to Raw when it's been covered in many threads HHH isn't a fan of his? He's going to smackdown is anything. Do you pay attention to other people's post? I don't know how you come up with theories and opinions and try and pass them off as fact.
Tom, since the graphic was taken down and the guys in there are still unknown, who really stands out as someone who needs this boost? It's difficult since everything is speculation but I can't think of one name off the top of my head who would be a reasonable, logical pick. This has huge blunder written all over it in my opnion.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 15, 2008 20:06:30 GMT -5
How can it be a blunder? Its a free show. It certainly beats another mish-mash of unannounced matches and longwinded speeches by people in the ring all night. And we need to wash off any of the tarnish from whatever they have planned from this "Hillary and Obama invite"
I dont know, I would like to see guys like Elijah Burke, Benjamin, Lance Cade, folk like that. Higher tier but still not weekly main-eventers like MVP, Kennedy. Even guys like Miz. Umaga, certainly.
Balls, enough with this Edge stuff. And just cause you find Vicki unattractive, we dont need to hear it nonstop out of you. Especially as you do NOT watch Smackdown. This week, the vignettes with the massages and pedicures and such, fun stuff. Teddy Long is a wonderful foil.
So enough, that dynamic IS working, and as James attested to, its not going anywhere.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 16, 2008 7:43:14 GMT -5
Batista, in case you forgot, got his start on RAW. With the exception of Punk, every single name you mentioned has had a nice long run on Raw. You can be as obnoxious as you want, but acting like a pompous dickhead will not put Punk on the same level as the top guys until he has a run on a show that more people watch.
Vicki is more than just an ugly sow. She has absolutely no talent. She didn't earn her spot, she inherited it. She disgusts me.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 16, 2008 7:51:32 GMT -5
Batista, in case you forgot, got his start on RAW
Thank you, but no! WRONG. Try again.
Batista got his start as "Reverend D-Von's" gofer "Deacon Batista" .......on SMACKDOWN.
Thanks for playing though!
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 16, 2008 8:08:13 GMT -5
And where did he rise to prominence, you putz? As part of Evolution.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 16, 2008 8:59:32 GMT -5
Where were you talking about "prominence?" You said HE GOT HIS START. I am stunned you dont remember the Reverend D-Von stuff, considering it had guys dressing up in costumes, which seems to be why you watch wrestling in the first place.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 16, 2008 9:57:05 GMT -5
It was a long time ago. But the point is the same--the big time exposure for Batista came on Raw.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 16, 2008 10:03:24 GMT -5
So what?? It just happened to be where he was at the time. Meanwhile you got guys like Brock Lesnar, who were just as big in the grand scheme looking back, and they were groomed and stayed on Smackdown.
On a lesser scale, there is a budding superstar in MVP on Smackdown, and he is a fixture there.
Stop trying to figure things out, cause you are wrong.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 16, 2008 10:12:14 GMT -5
Just looked it up on wikipedia, and Batista debuted just after the brand split (about a month later). He wasn't even on Smackdown 6 months before he moved to Raw and aligned himself with Flair.
Raw has a bigger audience, but Smackdown is no slouch. But both of them are much higher than ECW in the ratings. Smackdown can create a top tier superstar, but a top tier guy at ECW with no run on Raw or Smackdown? Not happening--at least not on the grand scale of the top guys.
And Smackdown's ratings were higher back when Lesnar was on.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 16, 2008 10:33:17 GMT -5
?[/i] What part of Punk has been on Smackdown every week for a few months now have you missed in this conversation? See, this is one of your many problems, you are talking about something you have no right to speak of. You dont watch the shows, yet you try to talk about them like an expert.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 16, 2008 10:59:02 GMT -5
If Smackdown wasn't such a bore, I would pay more attention. CM Punk gets less airtime than Vicki Guererro's cankles.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 16, 2008 11:17:17 GMT -5
Balls if you think Punk hasn't been well known and over with the crowd for a long while..you are mistaken..It seems as if he has taken up RVD's spot in terms of his popularity, how he is viewed by the office, pushed and not pushed and the like....at least to me anyways.....
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 16, 2008 11:47:13 GMT -5
I understand that, and I've acknowledged he gets a good pop. But I do think he needs to escape ECW to move to the next level.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 16, 2008 12:09:00 GMT -5
First, did Batista get big cause he was on Raw or cause he was FUCKING HANDPICKED BY HHH to be in Evolution? He got big cause of the stable, not cause of the show. If Evolution had been on Raw instead, it'd still be viewed the same way. If Punk needs a change of brands, it's because there is no one on ECW for him to face. He needs new competition, not cause he is under the radar. And Cap has brought up how he has taken RVDS spot in many ways, over witht he crowd but disliked in the front office. The fact he has the popularity that he does, shows he's not being hurt by on ECW.
And yourgonna giveme shit for piling on but I don't give a fuck. How is anyone else being a pompous dickhead other than yourself? You don't watch smackdown or ECW but spot out opinions as facts like some end all be all of wrestling knowledge. By just assuming you know what you're talking about without watching a show is more obnoxious and concieted than anything else. You have opinions, so say it as such, not like some set in stone fact. That's why wrestling talk is at a minimal here, not cause people like me pile on, cause you don't know what you're talking about and can't say anything without you acting as if you know something more than people who watch every show. You can't say a show is a bore just cause you dislike someone without watching it. If you don't like someone fine, why be like they have no talent cause you don't like them? It's baby shit and the section suffers cause you act like an ass. Your opinion isn't fucking fact.
If Punk wasn't on the next level, he wouldn't have won MITB. If you'd watch the product you'd know...so please, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't bring the conversation down by filling it up with malarky.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 16, 2008 12:31:18 GMT -5
James, in the wrestling section, you have no equal when it comes to being a pompous know it all. You talk down as if you are some sort of guru when you are no more or less knowledgeable than anyone else. So yeah, you're like that. You're the one who drags this section down because instead of sticking to the topic, you always feel the need to make some stupid crack. That's why the section gets hurt. Let's see if you can actually get back to the topic, which I doubt. If you can't, you'll be a speed bump again until you can actually talk wrestling.
Now back to Batista...
You are 100 percent right that Batista got big because of that stable. But the stable was big because of the big names at the front end of it. And of course, it had the benefit of the top names on the TOP show.
Evolution would not have been as big on Smackdown, because Smackdown doesn't get the same audience, which is why guys like HHH stay on Raw. Not that Smackdown can't establish stars, but again, every top star in the company has had a good run on Raw at some point.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 16, 2008 12:42:15 GMT -5
Balls, again, you are wrong in your contention that you must be on Raw to become a force. Again, Lesnar was a Smackdown product. Undertaker has been almost exclusive to Smackdown for YEARS.
Also the ratings disparity between Smackdown and Raw is not nearly as large as you seem to be making it out to be.
Cut your crap already, you hardly watch the product.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 16, 2008 12:55:33 GMT -5
Not that Smackdown can't establish stars, but again, every top star in the company has had a good run on Raw at some point.
That's because that is the way Vince wants it...He treats Raw as the flagship and it seems anyone who gets big ends up on Raw or has a run their regardless....
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 16, 2008 13:01:41 GMT -5
Exactly Captain. Raw is the flagship. The three brands are not equal.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 16, 2008 13:03:39 GMT -5
He treats Raw as the flagship and it seems anyone who gets big ends up on Raw or has a run their regardless....
But not EVERYONE.
Brock Lesnar is the best example. Undertaker has not been a "Raw guy" for most of the last 10 years.
Enough already.
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Post by grover on Apr 16, 2008 13:06:35 GMT -5
If you saw Flair back in the day before his WWF run you'd see why most consider him above Hogan all time. But then again you would have only watched him if he was dressed as the Riddler or if he had a skateboarding ninja gimmick.
Happy Belated Jackie Robinson is more important than Babe Ruth Day, Balls, good to see you're adding paragraphs of critical analysis to shows and wrestlers you don't watch. How's TNA been? Oh yeah you don't watch that either. Too bad Kurt Angle doesn't act like Mr. Drummond and too bad John Cena doesn't have an American Idol gimmick.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 16, 2008 13:09:54 GMT -5
Balls, as to me being a know it all dick, in case you havn't noticed, i'm a bully, I pick on the weaker ones. Hence, no one else gets crap from me. I can't stand the passive aggressive shit, I'm the worst offender cause you say so, you know everything cause you say so. Just cause you can say something, that doesn't make it right, or truthful. There's no reason to act like the wrestling sun rises and sets at your command and you don't know what happens on each show on a weekly basis.
It's hard to get back to the topic cause it's so greatly askewed cause of the garbage theroies you've been spitting out. The ratings thing is wrong, the impact on being on one show to another is wrong. And it's not even me being an ass, there's proof on every show every week how wrong you are but yet the same malarky is alwaysb started by you. And please grow up, this is a message board, I'm allowed to make cracks while making a point, this isn't a formal fucking exam.
Evolution would be just as big no matter what show cause of what you said, the star power in it. The only way Evolution would never have gotten over is if it was on Heat. Yes, each show gets treated as an A show, a B show etc. But that doesn't mean people on the B or C show can't get over or aren't over. Tom's pointed out Punk, as well as a heap of other ECW guys arte on SD. Miz and Morrison are Tag Champs. So no one knows them besides people who watch ECW? Are you insane? that's another thing, there's no brand loyalty like you make it out to be. A wrestling fan watches all three shows and knows the guys on each. No one says I like Raw better so I'll watch that and hate the other two shows. That's assinine. You assesment is so far wrong it's impossible not to make a crack. And cap is dead on, when a guy needs a bigger role he is moved to Raw. But it has to be over on SD or ECW to even be able to make it on Raw. This formula has been going on for years but you seem to not even grasp it. Watch the shows then form an opinion, not create clutter.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 16, 2008 13:10:43 GMT -5
Lesnar was a rare exception, and the ratings on Smackdown back then were higher than today.
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Post by grover on Apr 16, 2008 13:13:44 GMT -5
You guys ever think they are trying to elevate someone to an elite status for a show like Smackdown in order to, ummmmmmmmmm, I don't know, increase the ratings?
Raw doesn't need the help. Put a guy over on RAW from ECW or Smackdown and it may lead to a needed push for ECW/Smackdown.
What about other rare exceptions like John Cena?
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 16, 2008 13:51:51 GMT -5
I agree that Raw doesn't need the help, but if a show doesn't have the ratings in the first place, the best bet is to bring a top guy or two over from Raw to Smackdown. Like, Edge and Batista.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 16, 2008 15:55:58 GMT -5
So how do so many people know CM Punk if no one watches Smackdown and ECW like you claim? Edge and Batista weren't moved to boost ratings, there's no place on Raw for them and they're big enough stars to carry a show with Taker, MVP and others. Michelle McCool is getting big pops wherever she appears, how is that when she's mainly on SD and no one watches Smackdown? Raw is the flagship show, all that entails though is more focus is put on that show, there are still big stars with plenty to do and who contribute a lot on the other shows.
When Edge was in Rated RKO and Batista was Smackdown, SD did just fine with Batista and Taker feuding for the belt. edge wasn't moved to boost ratings, Taker got hurt and they needed someone with star power to help carry the load, which he did. Stop making shit up.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 16, 2008 18:19:48 GMT -5
Here is JRs take on this tourney, from his blog at jrsbarbq.com. Interesting he went out of his way to mention Lance Cade, as I was talking to Dana about him last night as the kind of guy I want to see in this thing.
The King of the Ring Tournament was one of my favorite events in years past as I like one night tournaments. I like to see an event start and finish the same night as that is fundamental, episodic television. This will be, as I understand it, a single elimination tournament, which is easy to follow, the winners advance and the losers hit the showers. My firstKOR was in 1993 in Dayton, Ohio and Bret Hart won the honors that night. The KOR has been defining moments for several WWE superstars, including Stone Cold Steve Austin, Owen Hart, HHH , Kurt Angle to name a few. I don’t know what Superstars are entered from the 3 brands that will be represented in Monday’s competition, but I could theoretically see someone coming from out of nowhere and winning the tournament to be held inGreenville, South Carolina. What about a Lance Cade from Raw ,for example?
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