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Post by cactusjames on Apr 21, 2008 21:22:09 GMT -5
LOL I'm a baby? Why cause there was a lot of promise to start off with and they let it go in the shitter? And I havn't read one good report on any website concerning the tourney. It's a total bust, the lower half of the bracket sucked up whatever life this thing had.
The "match" was almost as bad as the taped messages each canidate gave. The only thing worse is the show in general. There's been a total of two good matches, and not even 4 or 5 star good, just decent. How is this show better than any other one throughout the year? How is this a good change from the normal Raw? This is a shitty three hour special.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 21, 2008 21:22:12 GMT -5
Of that sorry bit, Bill Clinton was the best and the best lines were the ones said while he was outside that were picked up by the mic that most of the audience couldn't hear......
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 21, 2008 21:28:23 GMT -5
All Hail King Regal!!!!
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 21, 2008 21:31:08 GMT -5
What's funny is the main event tonight will be longer than all the matches in the KOTR combined. What's sad is the fact that awful bit all together was longer than the entire tourney. This can't be spun into a worthwhile special Raw. That said, Hail King Regal.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 21, 2008 21:34:34 GMT -5
All Hail King Regal, indeed. And, unlike your hopes for comedy, all signs point to an intense Regal, and another viable heel.
You're wrong about the reactions. I guess you dont have a Torch VIP membership, everyone is happy Regal won it, and everyone agrees this beats "just another weekly Raw."
You dont speak for everyone, you doof.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 21, 2008 21:36:03 GMT -5
Tom if you read my post a bit back at the end of the first round, I said the only thing that would save it for me was a Regal victory....
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 21, 2008 21:37:29 GMT -5
I do disagree with the VIP Torch memebers about the Hillary v. Obama match..I just rolled my eyes throught the whole thing...I was just happy it was Umaga who came in and probably ruined Balls favorite bit of the show.....
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 21, 2008 21:37:46 GMT -5
Not addressing you, Cap. I am addressing little whiny James.
Once Regal came out the first time Dana and I had him running through the brackets. Otherwise it made no sense.
There were rumors of a renewed push for him. I am glad to see this. Again, complaining about something different tonight is just baby shit.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 21, 2008 21:38:44 GMT -5
Never said I did speak for everyone and I also certainly never said anyone dislikes Regal, I meant the show as a whole is being panned. Havne't read one good thing on the torch or prowrestling.net. You can't make up stuff and call it facts. This beats a weekly Raw if you like bad spoofs and a bunch of mediocre matches all under the span of 8 minutes, then it's great.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 21, 2008 21:39:03 GMT -5
As to the Hillary / Obama match, mostly everyone agreed it would have been best left undone, but at the same time it was better than expected, had a few legit laughs, and was not nearly as painful as the Rosie / Trump garbage. Even the live crowd did not crap all over it.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 21, 2008 21:39:13 GMT -5
I too am happy with the Regal push but Hornswoggle immediately hurt the credibiilty for me of the whole KOR.......It does appear he will be a "dark" king....
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 21, 2008 21:40:21 GMT -5
I thought I heard the crowd chanting "Boring as Hell" during the bit....
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 21, 2008 21:43:31 GMT -5
Maybe scattered pockets, but it was not nearly as bad as some cynics were expecting going in. As to you, James, why do you bother watching? Next Monday do us a favor and skip Raw and watch your DX DVDs for the night.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 21, 2008 21:45:05 GMT -5
Tom, I just wonder what goes on in Vince's head with these bits..Does he think they are actually funny? The Hornswoggle stuff is thousands of times funnier.....
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 21, 2008 21:50:14 GMT -5
Nothing like a half hour of intros for the 8 man tag...LOL
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 21, 2008 22:14:45 GMT -5
Tom, make all the DX jokes you want, it won't change the fact I was right about the tournament. And also I'm too big of a fan, if I sat through this crap tonight, obviously I'll be watching next week. Maybe next week I'll see a good match. The Punk/Hardy match, and Punk/Y2J match were good, but too short to amount to anything special. In all honesty, the diva brawl was cool if not for the fact Beth cut a great promo. Shawn and Batista continues to be a standout segment every show. Other than that what else came out of tonight's show? It reintroduced Regal, that's it. And that could have been done some other way that could have been good. Capitan is right, Hornswoggle shitted on any meaning the tourney may have had. It was an awful show, and I'll be watching next week only cause it's the day after a ppv and I'm curious if they can rebound and handle a two hour show cause they dropped the ball with the three hour show that had a lot of potential.
If you like it fine, but just admit what promised to be a good Raw didn't turn out as good as it could have. There was a reason the bracket wasn't announced in advance.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2008 7:37:02 GMT -5
but too short to amount to anything special
Sorry, but that has been the Raw formula for years. I dont think there has been an opening hour match that has gone beyond 7 minutes in years. It is what it is. Bottom line they want you to order a PPV if you want to see a longer match.
The whole Hornswoggle thing I could have lived without, but it was part of establishing Regal as a prick. Beating down a midget and sneaking into the next round, and taking advantage of an injured guy in Finlay. Its wrestling storytelling 101. What should they have done, have Regal beat Shelton Benjamin in a hard-fought battle, and win your respect? They dont want him to win your respect, they want you to be convinced he is a scumbag.
I enjoyed this Raw. Too bad some of you are so jaded you go into something wanting to hate it, which by reading your posts of the last few days makes it obvious was your plan.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 22, 2008 8:08:34 GMT -5
I've watched the first half of Raw, and the second half is on the DVR. I know Regal beat Punk in the finals. As a KOTR tournament goes, it was terrible. But as a tournament on Raw goes, it was fine. I didn't think Regal would be KOTR, but I love the idea since the guy could make funny faces for an hour and I'd be entertained. I thought Punk was going to win once MVP was out.
I turned it off after "if you smell what Barack is cooking."
Hillary's people and/or WWE writers screwed her over. H-Rod?
I hope the second 90 minutes at least has a comment from Santino.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2008 8:33:07 GMT -5
I didn't think Regal would be KOTR, but I love the idea since the guy could make funny faces for an hour and I'd be entertained.
It does not appear that is the way they are going with this. He is coming off as more intense, and downright mean. A legit threat to other wrestling talent.
Balls, you must have been tremendously angry at "Hillary and Bill" posing to the Hogan music.
And Balls nailed it - as a tourney on free TV it was fine. As a King of Ring, it was certainly not up to PPV and past standards.
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Post by grover on Apr 22, 2008 11:40:08 GMT -5
I'm fine with that, because I knew it wouldn't be presented as it was in the past with PPVs. It wasn't bad at all. Didn't seem as important as the past PPVs, but what this one had was unpredictability, which the past one's lacked. The PPV KORs were easy to guess like the Rumble because we all knew who was set to get a big push. It was a pleasant surprise seeing Regal win, because one would think a guy like MVP would get it, or another wrestler along those lines.
I found it to be a fun show. The Presidential stuff didn't bother me because I didn't even watch it. Why turn it off when you can change the channel? lol
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 22, 2008 11:49:14 GMT -5
I haven't seen the fake Hillary and Bill crap yet. I wouldn't mind Stone Cold giving them all stunners.
I agree this KOTR did not have predictability. If they are indeed pushing Regal as a mean heel, I hope he's just as entertaining as he has been as GM.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 22, 2008 12:17:35 GMT -5
First off, I love KOTR, it was always my second favorite ppv behind the Rumble. And I totally understand and get that it was a tv tourney, but no way was the Regal thing a suprise, as soon as he came out you knew who was winning. It was exactly the Rumble from January. I love Regal and glad he's getting a push again, and the idea of him working real stif with bunch of guys is even better.
But in all honesty, as 3 hour Raws go, this sucked. Do I want Regal beating Shelton in a 12 minute match? It'd be nice to see some wrestling, cause formula or not, you can't have a good match in under 7 minutes. And if they wanted to keep the first round short, I could live with that, but have the second and last round longer. The presidential canidates spoof was longer than the enitre tourney, that's horrible booking and takes away any meaning the one night tourney had. Have at least one match, either Y2J/Punk or Punk/Regal go 12-15 minutes. That isn't too much to ask, and it builds a little more suspense and suprise to the obvious outcome. So do I need every match over 10? No. But MVP shouldn't be used in a 4 minute match jobbing to Y2J. He's too big of a name to be fucking squashed like that. But hey, shit on the younger guys to help re-establish an older guy. It's no knock on Regal, but they didn't need to use KOTR to do it. Plus, the new King got beat by Orton in his home country and the very next week he's king of the WWE. They really think fans have amnesia(sp) huh?
Bottom line is, Impact was better show this past thursday than a 3 hour special the Raw hyped for a week. When WWE is hyping a three hour special they shouldn't use the entire time to give the cynics ammo to bash them. I wanted to like this, and some of the 4 minute matches was a good 4 minutes, but this didn't deliver like it could have and should have. I'm mad I'm right about this shit all the time, but I can't say Raw was good when I enjoyed all of 15 minutes of it. Sorry I don't like WWE treating everyone like 5 year olds. But hey if you like the kiddie stuff, yeah this was a top notch show. For me, it was a dissapointment cause it lacked so many things that were all but promised going in. Really Hornswoggle? Colin Delaney was too banged up to sell for 15 seconds? WWE dropped the ball on a good wrestling show and turned it into Mr. Roger's neighborhood.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2008 12:27:17 GMT -5
It'd be nice to see some wrestling, cause formula or not, you can't have a good match in under 7 minutes
The main event is the only match on Raw that ever approaches 7 minutes. Do you even watch? Last night was more of the same. Its quick matches, thats the way it always is, and time to get used to it. You want to see longer matches, watch Smackdown where its different booking, or order a PPV sometime.
You said it yourself, the "4 minutes" they did were good. There was some good wrestling last night. You are another one who needs to start DVRing the show and simply FF to what you want, cause you dont seem to enjoy watching.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2008 12:41:28 GMT -5
Balls, here's some of the stuff that will get you really mad....."Hillary and Bill" channeling Hulk Hogan!!!! From "Real American" to the legdrop....here goes.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 22, 2008 13:10:20 GMT -5
I just read the Raw hitlist from Prowrestling.net, granted it's one guys opinion, I just find it funny two of my biggest complinats are the same as his and I felt this way well before I even read his take on it. Let me share some if I may. This are off the misses not the hits for the record:
King of the Ring tournament: It started so promising, but it turned out to be a huge letdown in my book. Again, I'm cool with Regal winning as long as they have a plan to push him beyond this show. My beefs are with the Giant, the dwarf, the short matches, and the lack of younger talent involved in the tournament. This could have been something special. Instead, it felt like a series of rushed matches designed to save time for the hideous presidential spoof and the ring introductions of the eight guys who appeared in the main event.
Overall show: WWE had three hours to promote Backlash, yet they dedicated most of their time to the Presidential candidates, the spoof, the King of the Ring tournament, and all those main event ring entrances. They crammed most of their big pay-per-view match hype into the eight-man tag, and none of those matches were properly showcased. The overall show was a huge disappointment and it can't bode well for the buyrate for Sunday's show or future Raw ratings.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2008 13:24:36 GMT -5
Satisfied now? You have one mans opinion there, backing you. Congratulations. Grover and I cancel you out, we are fine with what happened last night. Sorry you want to bitch and moan, I choose to enjoy what I can and dont look to nitpick and whine all the time.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 22, 2008 13:46:23 GMT -5
OHHHH, tom and Grover say it's ok so it must be. I don't even know how you call yourself an MVP fan and can say you're ok with him being used in a squash match. And please, when you do I complain about shit on wrestling? This is an exception cause I went in with high hopes, a slight fear of it being a bust, and turned out my deepest darkest fears were true. I'm all for Regal being used more, take him out of the GM role and put Santino in the GM role, then push Regal. That's fine. The wrestling was good but short, not every match needs to be a 20 minute marathon, but the tourney felt so rushed. And for what? The presidential shit? The wrestling gets bumped for a bad comedy-less bit. Where does that make for a good wrestling show? And it'd be nice to not see some guys get underutilized. They pretty much did a switch last night, instead of misusing Regal, they misuse MVP. Hopefully they don't continue that trend.
I got no hesitation to say this, despite all the yeas you fucking old timers watched wrestling, I fucking love pro wrestling more than anything else, more than movies, more than music, more the nirvana, more than sharapova, more than the cowboys, rangers and yanks combined. I get really bothered when a show is such a let down like last night. Cause when the smart marks bash a raw I felt was good, I don't say hey I hate it now and I'm gonna bitch about next week. I fucking ignore that shit, but I don't need their opinion, Powells opinion, or anyone elses, when a pro wrestling show, a three hour show, gets treated like little kid hour, it's not an entertaining show and I can't enjoy that. Things that a 5 year old likes isn't what a 22 year old likes. Hornswogle is fine, in small doses and on Smackdown. He's got no place in a KOTR, and don't say to establish Regal as a heel, he doesn't need to beat on a midget for that.
I would be fine with the tourney if the matches weren't rushed for nothing, there's no need to have the entire tourney in under 25 minutes jusy to make room for a bad bit and 10 minutes of intros. I mean they come back from a break, the heels come out. At this point it's 10:40, enough time for a good 15 minute brawl. No, they go right to another commercial and come back for the face entrances. Then, another commercial a minute into match. If anyone says they're fine with that, and that didn't bother them, I got no problem calling them a fucking liar. Short and sweet, it's was horribly booked from beginning to end. If you enjoyed it fine, but it could have been a lot better, it should have been booked smarter and you didn't have to sacrifice certain guys and time for awful, unfunny, un-needed filler.
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Post by grover on Apr 22, 2008 14:24:06 GMT -5
Sure, it would have been nice to see younger talent in there, but there are other ways to go about that, and they are doing that on shows like ECW. What's better for a young talent to get? A win on ECW or a loss in the KOR? If CM Punk can catapult without these types of things then others can also.
There is some big plan for Regal and I sense some good comedy ahead. Then again it may be a nod to his service over the years. We'll see.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 22, 2008 14:35:32 GMT -5
That's what I think and I hope it doesn't happen.
And again, my main problem is the way it was booked, three hours and barely anything, very few standout moments. I 100% agree, Punk isn't hurt by this, Jericho neither, and Matt Hardy will always get the same pops he always does. And MVP is good enough where he can rebound, but it was fucking awful how he was used and I wouldn't be suprised if he's secretly pissed off. A loss is better in the KOTR than a win on ECW, but not in 4 minutes, MVP should not be jobbing in under 4 minutes. That's a squash and he's too valuable and too big of a name to be getting squashed in under 5 minutes. Logically, a lot of things were bad, and I know someone will say but it's pro wrestling, what's supposed to be logical? But maybe that's the problem, people seem to forget the little things that stand out to die hards, and the writers forget more week to week than the fans. And yet you have Tom telling people to FF through the show. All I'm saying is the bad out weighed the good last, it wasn't one of their best three hour shows.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2008 14:45:42 GMT -5
Enough with the whining about "jobbing in 4 minutes." First off, all the matches were short. Matt Hardy was disposed of quickly as well, and so was Jericho. If anything, that added to the unpredictable nature....would you rather "cheap finishes" like outside interference? I was just happy to have clean pins, and better yet, SUBMISSIONS.
Wrestling is fake, we all know that, this was done for TV. Again, if you want MVP to go for 20 minutes buy a PPV.
Why would MVP be pissed? He is not the only one who "jobbed." Hell, even Punk submitted at the end of the show! And that match was what, 6 minutes??? Who fing cares?? Really.
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