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Post by grover on Apr 22, 2008 15:01:47 GMT -5
Well, I think Regal winning it was fantastic, and if anyone else would have won it aside from MVP it would have been a let down. This may be the start of a Regal return to the ring full time and a new GM. Possibly a Regal/Punk feud in ECW with a Regal title run down the line? A possibility, which could give Regal a title he's deserved and not one of the two major one's that would disrupt the main eventer flow.
I also like the Women's bit and thought that it actually made things a bit interesting within that division. The main event was also quite good.
I see no reason to say last night sucked.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 22, 2008 15:24:22 GMT -5
It may be considered a nit pik (and I agree with James) but it would have been a better story angle and just as good a squash and in my eyes 1000 times better credibility wise if they had Colin Delaney in the KOR instead of Hornswoggle..At least they could have had a quick backstage shot of Armando telling Colin he can win a contract if he wins the KOR Tournament......
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 22, 2008 15:26:29 GMT -5
Regal win was great and as I posted here at the end of the first round of matches, the only thing that would have saved the KOR at that point in my eyes was a Regal win and it happened........I understand all the scenarios Tom laid out with Khali and Hornswoggle in relation to pushing Regal's new "tough dark" character but I don't have to like it and thought it could be better...
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2008 15:26:53 GMT -5
Thats absolutely a nitpick. Hornswoggle was already out there, with Finlay, for one thing, and for another it built "heat" for the Regal / Finlay match cause Regal stretched his "son." And, if you really want to talk semantics, Hornswoggle is over more than than Delaney, who is admittedly dying on the vine.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 22, 2008 15:28:14 GMT -5
I would have rather seen a Lance Cade vs Shelton Benjamin and another match (take your pick..heck even a Hacksaw Jim Duggan match) 8 minute each matches rather then the waste of a political spoof crap for 15 minutes.......
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 22, 2008 15:28:18 GMT -5
Because matches were made shorter than usual for an awful bit. I'm glad they did submissions, and clean finsihes and all that. I love Regal winning. And I'm not saying every match should be 20 mins like Tom thinks I am. It just sucks that good matches were shorter just to make room for shit. And the entrances of the main event. I thought the match was fine, but again, it was shorter cause of intros. A lot of it came off rushed and others like they crammed in. Cause here's the thing, it's a three hour show, a free ppv, so make it seem like that. Further storylines like a normal Raw, but don't waste time that could otherwise be used to make more quality matches and give guys a bigger showcase. It lacked that big time feel that would have helped it so much more.
And that bottom half of the bracket was weak. you knew it was Finlay and Regal, which is fine, but I would have liked it better if he didn't have such an easy path to the finals and crown. I get it makes him a prick which is cool, but he just went from GM, to losing to Orton in his own country, to beating a midget an injured wrestler and someone who wrestled two matches already. Ok, so he's a ruthless scumbag, does anyone who doesn't know him buy him as credible? Regal is an awesome king, but it could have been booked in a much smarter way.
Cap said it best, i didn't hate it, but it could have been better, it had so much more potential and i don't have to like it. I didn't even mind the real taped messages from Clinton, Obama, and McCain. They were awful and painful to listen to, but to cram in matches and rush the matches for that other spoof shit, it's terrible booking. It lost a lot of steam real early, and they shouldn't do that so quickly in a three hour show.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 22, 2008 16:02:10 GMT -5
Finished watching Raw. The Clinton/Obama match wasn't nearly as bad as the Rosie/Trump one, which was arguably the worst moment in Raw history.
The Bill Clinton guy was actually very funny, and for a brief moment, I liked Umanga.
And I appreciated the boos that Hillary and Obama got. Glad this was done in a red state.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 22, 2008 17:36:46 GMT -5
Trust me, EVERYONE wanted to hate that skit. And when it was done, not nearly everyone did. It was not my favorite thing ever, but I cracked a grin. On an aside, Lexie Fyfe of SHIMMER played Hillary.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 22, 2008 19:42:49 GMT -5
Part of the reason I think it worked ok was the Bill Clinton guy really doing a good job. I totally could see Bill Clinton leaving the bitch like that.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 22, 2008 19:56:01 GMT -5
See what's funny to me is, on a show where you have a midget, obviosuly there for the little kids, yet have political shit on the same show. Those kids shitting themselves cause Horny got stretched out were totally oblivious to the parody, or lack thereof in the ring. That's cool if they want to hit the 18 and up demo to get them to vote, ok fine, that's what the taped messages are for. Don't stick that awful farce of a match in there. But then keep Horny on SD. A totally different audience watches on friday night, so save the kid shit for then. sorry, I'm willing to bet there are more people like me who would have liked more attention given to the wrestling aspect of the show, and the tourney in specific, then the way they went.
And another thing, doesn't bother is as much as other shit last night, but the point of the hilary/obama "match" was to get mainstream talking like with the Rosie and Trump thing, Well the media people who havn't seen wrestling since the last spoof watched the show and thought to themselves,"How do people watch this"? Vince didn't give mainstream media much to think highly of wrestling. It gives the fans, but more importantly a bad image and that ain't good for business on all fronts. It was just dumb, stupid and moronic. There wasn't one funny or redeeming moment in that entire 20+ min segment. Why is it on my Tv at all? What good comes out of it?
And for the record, the three hours and KOTR did shit for ratings, same as usual. And anyone who did watch out of curiosity won't be tuning back in anytime soon. Good job creative staff.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 23, 2008 9:40:45 GMT -5
James I agree the taped messages from the real candidates got all the mainstream play and I saw nothing about that other crap anywhere......The only reason I didn't change the channel was because I couldn't..TIVO was taping two things so I couldn't change it...LOL....
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 23, 2008 9:50:10 GMT -5
The TORCH posted a whole heap of mainstream sources that not only talked about the taped speeches, but the match. From MSNBC (which actually had tape of the match online), Washington Post, Stern, Rush Limbaugh, ABC News, Sportingnews.com, Newshounds.com, FORBES, and deadspin.com. All of those sources discussed the MATCH, ranging from negative to smary remarks, to talking about how funny it was or how well the performers did at the thankless role.
James, you're a VIP member, so I am surprised you chose to ignore all the coverage of the coverage of the match.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 23, 2008 11:40:11 GMT -5
Holy shit, when did I ever say that? All I ever said was I understand they did it to get media coverage, but it's stupid at the expense of matches. \I never said no one cared, and I never said no one covered it, I know they did, I saw a report on it, all I said was that's why they did it, and it's not going to put wrestling in a positive light. Also, all I did was say the ratings are pretty much the same from last weeks, so the tourney and 3 hours did nothing. And people who don't normally watch wrestling who tuned in this past monday will make sure not to, next monday. It was not a smart move to have the match, the taped messages get enough mainstream media coverage that the match was not needed and out of place considering eveyon saw the real canidates earlier. Vince is fucking insane. And of all everything I've read and seen, never heard anyone say that skit was funny in anyway but you, so keep trying to spin this your way. The bitter truth is I was right.......again. I'm not happy about it, but it's the way it is.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 23, 2008 12:00:55 GMT -5
Actually, I have seen a lot of people think the skit was funny. It was a major improvement over the Rosie/Trump disaster. I'm not saying it was This Is Your Life: The Rock, but it had its laughs. The Bill Clinton guy was outstanding--from his posing in front of Hillary, to his abandoning her like a coward.
It's not something I'd like to see weekly, but it was much better than I thought it would be.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 23, 2008 12:01:45 GMT -5
Agreed with Balls. It was not groundbreaking comedy, but it even made me laugh, and i am the most jaded person in the world when it comes to the crap side of wrestling programming.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 23, 2008 12:20:09 GMT -5
Balls will jump at any opportunity and mark out big time in order to hear "Real American".....
The skit got a chuckle or two from the Bill Clinton guy..I just don't understand why it has to get done all together......
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 23, 2008 12:20:37 GMT -5
And i'm jaded and picky with comedy, it lacked humor. And I havn't read too many postiive reviews except from you two. Hardly a ringing endorsement for the bit. And honestly, the fact if it's funny or not is unimportant. It was bad cause too much time was spent on it, which would have been better spent elsewhere. Doesn't matter how funny anyone thinks it is, that shit should not be taking up tv time. Every match was under 10 minutes, EVERY SINGLE MATCH. On a normal, good Raw, you have at least one or two matches go more than 10. But last moday, didn't happen cause of a bad bit. Obviously you guys aren't pure wrestling fans cause then the fan in you would want better,longer matches. They shit the bed.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 23, 2008 12:23:42 GMT -5
Obviously you guys aren't pure wrestling fans cause then the fan in you would want better,longer matches.
James, dont provoke me. I am sorry you dont understand how television wrestling works. When I grew up watching WWF the whole show was full of matches with wrestlers against scrubs, showing off their best moves for 2 minutes.
I spend more time watching 20 minutes matches with guys like Buck Zumhofe and Brad Rheingeins than you can imagine. I watch at least one 60 minute draw a week, the same ones over and over cause I dont own enough of them.
So cut your crap.
I am looking at the show as compared to what we normally get on Monday nights - 4-6 minute matches. And these were better, for the most part, with CLEAN FINISHES. Again, you want longer matches, buy a God Damned PPV.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 23, 2008 12:31:48 GMT -5
Maybe the fact that Tom and I have such a profound hatred of the Clintons contributed to the humor. But I think that skit should have transcended politics. I always laughed at Dana Carvey's George Bush, Sr. impression. Phil Hartman once did a skit as Reagan that had me rolling.
That skit wasn't that funny. And it probably was a little long, but not painfully over long. The more I think about it, the more I like the Clinton guy. Hell, he even played up to the crowd with the Monica chants.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 23, 2008 12:43:13 GMT -5
All my point is, when 30 minutes is given to that, instead of in ring action and furthering storylines and feuds, when that takes a backseat to long intros and a skit that made a few hundred people all over the country laugh, it annoys me. When so much time of a show is wasted, it annoys me.
And sorry to provoke you Tom, but I'm not going to keep hearing how dumb and naiive I am cause my POV differs from yours. Don't treat me like Balls does, that's it. I grew up wacthing superstars on sunday mornings. Not too different from your shows back in the day. 2-3 minute matches showcasing a guys moves. I DVRd ECW cause of hockey last night. Are you expecting me to complian Guido and Mark Henry didn't go long enough? When Raw is three hours, it's a freee PPV in my mind and should be treated as such. SNME has goofy bits but still focuses on wrestling. There wasn't a lot of focus on wrestling in my mind. I know not every match is going to be 20 minutes. But when you have three hours of tv time and numerous media outlets watching, it's be nice to have the good part of wrestling showcased. Not waste thirty minutes on intros and a skit. I understand why you like it, but don't fucking treat me like I don't know what i'm talking about cause I feel a wrestling show could feature more wrestling. Then maybe I don't gotta be a prick.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Apr 23, 2008 12:48:29 GMT -5
First off, 3 hours was not WWEs idea. That is USA Network, pushing for the extra hour. So Raw does not have to go outside of their comfort zone in the least, if it was up to them from all accounts they would not be doing a 3 hour show.
Secondly, its funny to see you attributing a time to the Clinton/Obama thing over and over, with it getting longer each time. Now you have it at "30 minutes." It was closer to 10.
Also, when people are tuning in for the first time, do you think they WANT to see wrestling? If so, why have they not tuned in before? Matches are shorter on TV today due to a shorter ATTENTION span. When a match goes on, people switch. Todays wrestling fans are different, there are hardcores like us, but the WWE is not going to put on LONGER matches to gain fans.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 23, 2008 13:02:14 GMT -5
Keep reading wrong. i said the intros and skit was a total 30 minutes of wasted time. The skit was about 20, cause of the commercial. and the main event intros took up 10-15 minutes, cause of another commercial. Too much time was spent on shit that could have been better spent elsewhere. If you're gonna bash me, please know what I'm saying.
As for the matches, i can go back to Raws January and see longer matches. The formula i was used to till last monday was the main event usually being 10 minutes and at least one other feautre match going the 8-10 minute mark. I agree about the attention span thing, that's why I though the longer matches had a commercial break in the middle. But the shows on my DVR must be lying.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 23, 2008 14:33:50 GMT -5
Seemed like about 10 minutes, give or take.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Apr 23, 2008 14:38:22 GMT -5
The bit and intros seemed like an hour and a half to me...
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