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Post by pags03 on Nov 9, 2008 3:30:18 GMT -5
Trading same players for Peavy isn't essentially = to last year for Santana. Peavy is locked in for another 5 years at a much lower rate, which would then allow us to go after CC as well. If we would have gotten Johan, we wouldn't have the flexibilty to go after CC and possibly Tex. I would rather have Peavy + CC than Johan alone. If Cashman is smart he unloads Hughes, Kennedy & Caberera. Try to save Austin, he's an unkown...with those other 3 we know what we're getting, nothing. I never want to see Kennedy in a pinstripe suit again!!! Peavy has a mean streak in him and a rotation of: 1. CC 2. Peavy 3. Wang 4. Joba 5. Andy
I'll go to bat with that and a bolstered lineup with Tex manning 1st, we can live with Gardener in CF
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Post by joetee316 on Nov 11, 2008 8:07:32 GMT -5
Peavy to NY would be great. I want that much more than Tex.
Interesting about the A's getting Holliday. Wonder how his numbers are gonna parlay in spacious Oakland. I like the dude, so hopefully it works in Oakland.
The Manny saga is nutty too. Thought he would possibly come here but hey, I like him out in LA.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 11, 2008 9:08:35 GMT -5
Actually Tom brought up an interesting point about Holliday. Could Oakland flip him to another team for prospects?
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Post by nobeernofun on Nov 11, 2008 11:20:28 GMT -5
If Holliday goes to Oakland his B.A will drop below 300 with all that space between the field & the stands. Look for the A's to flip him at the dead line.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 11, 2008 11:32:24 GMT -5
I believe Oakland will be flipping Holliday before the season, yet alone before the deadline. And I would not be surprised if we are one of the teams that may be a partner in the deal. I can easily see the A's flipping him for young prospects, bringing him in like they did is against their business model.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 11, 2008 12:31:43 GMT -5
True, but Oakland gives up Street, Greg Smith and prospect Carlos Gonzalez. Oakland would have to get a prospect package that would TOP that.
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Post by Chris on Nov 11, 2008 22:22:08 GMT -5
I'm with Tom. I don't think Oakland has any designs on retaining Holliday...that's just not Oakland.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 11, 2008 23:57:09 GMT -5
True, but Oakland gives up Street, Greg Smith and prospect Carlos Gonzalez. Oakland would have to get a prospect package that would TOP that.
Street is tremendously overrated, to where Oakland has been mulling for months now taking him out of a closer role. Smith is a keeper, but has struggled. And Gonzalez, as good as he may be, can be replicated. Thats not the most killer package in the world.
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Post by 9 on Nov 12, 2008 10:55:03 GMT -5
As a not-so-proud owner of Street in my fantasy league this past season, he was very, very shaky.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 12, 2008 11:00:33 GMT -5
As he was the year before, when I had him.
Street is the kind of closer who scares no one but his fantasy owners, and his own team.
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Post by Chris on Nov 14, 2008 2:25:34 GMT -5
In the past 2 years Jake Peavy has recorded a total of 17 outs beyond the 7th inning.
It's pretty clear at this point that CC is the big prize as far as pitchers go, and AJ Burnett is a distant second and an extreme question mark. There just isn't anything out there as far as pitching goes that jumps out at you.
Basically, the Yanks are just stuck....they need pitching improvements and CC is the only impact guy there. Slim pickins.
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Post by 9 on Nov 14, 2008 2:49:25 GMT -5
C.C. is NOT slim.
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Post by Chris on Nov 14, 2008 2:52:01 GMT -5
Offerings at the buffet are slim pickins, if you're in line behind CC.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 14, 2008 9:54:19 GMT -5
I would prefer the Yankees set their sights on Burnett, and do what they can to improve elsewhere. CC is going to backfire, and big. Santana last year would have been a much safer investment, and one that may have won us the flag this year if the trigger had been pulled.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2008 10:15:25 GMT -5
The problem with Burnett is that he can't pitch. There's a reason CC is the most sought after and expensive pitcher on the open market. He's the only one that doesn't suck.
Burnett's ERA when not facing the Yankees was close to 5.00. The idea of going out and signing someone for 4 years minimum, who you KNOW is going to suck, is just stupid.
AJ Burnett is at best, a healthy Carl Pavano. He's coming off a decent year, but not one worthy of a major contract, especially factoring in how his stats were lowered by his dominance of the Yankees.
The Yanks have been passing up the top available free agent for awhile now. I agree that by the end of the contract, Sabathia will suck. Hopefully he wouldn't pull a Giambi and tank after one year, and I admit, Sabathia makes me nervous too. But they need a pitcher that can actually dominate--not someone who is just at best, decent.
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Post by 9 on Nov 14, 2008 11:33:26 GMT -5
Burnett can't pitch? I think that's going a little far. I'm not saying he's Walter Johnson, but he's better than most of what we have right now.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2008 12:26:10 GMT -5
But that's not saying much. Again, his ERA was close to 5.00 when not pitching against the Yankees. I'm not saying he's HORRIBLE, but he's not someone you invest $60 million in and give 4 years. Not to mention, he's injury prone. I'm not overly high on Sabathia, but if they are going to overpay a pitcher, he's the one to grab.
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Post by Chris on Nov 14, 2008 12:37:22 GMT -5
If we're all conceding that EVERYONE on the market, aside from CC (and maybe even including CC what with the way Milwaukee abused his arm) is an injury concern.....I'm more in favor of going after someone like Sheets than Burnett.
For my money....it would be nice to get CC for 4 or 5 years....since that's not happening, Derek Lowe is about the healthiest innings consumer out there...I'd set my sights on him as a backup plan.
People still think Mussina couldn't possibly end up in pinstripes because if he doesn't retire, he'll want 3 years not one.
So you've got to replace Mussina's spot, possibly Pettite's spot, and at least one more spot...Wang is the only one written down in ink.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2008 12:54:21 GMT -5
Derek Lowe would be a solid backup plan, but you can't expect his NL stats to convert to the AL East. At least he has some experience. I don't think his numbers would be that far off Burnett's. You give Mussina 3 years, he will become 2007 Mussina.
It's tough to build a winner with this free agent class. Theoretically they need to help themselves with trades.
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Post by Chris on Nov 14, 2008 13:04:06 GMT -5
You may not expect his ERA to translate, but you can probably expect his durability to translate.
The oddest thing I'd heard is that the Red Sox may actually be gunning hard for this guy.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 14, 2008 13:14:35 GMT -5
Theoretically they need to help themselves with trades.
Which they had a chance to do last year with Johan Santana, and they didnt.
Talk about closing the barn door after the hogs have escaped.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2008 13:32:14 GMT -5
The price was too high for Santana.
They need to HELP themselves with trades, not give everyone away and pay a 9 figure deal for a guy who will not be that good at the end of the contract.
So again, they need to HELP themselves with trades.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 14, 2008 13:37:35 GMT -5
The price was too high for Santana Yes, indeed.....two pitchers who combined to go winless in 15 or so starts, and an outfielder who ended up being demoted to the minors, who should never be seen in pinstripes again. Yeah....WAAAAAYYY too high.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 14, 2008 13:40:11 GMT -5
And again, for the mentally impaired:
1. No one can know future stats. So using 2008 stats to judge something that happened in 2007 is stupid.
2. Even with 2008 stats, you can't judge anyone they kept until a few more years have passed.
3. Santana already has shown signs of a decline. He was being hammered in the AL, got hammered by AL teams this year, and had his highest WHIP while his Ks are down. Yes, he is still very good, but he had the benefit of the NL and a pitcher's park. In 5 years, there is a very good shot that he will be a shell of what he is now. Pedro gave the Mets 2 good years before he tanked as well.
So once again, yes, at the time, the price was too high.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Nov 19, 2008 13:44:30 GMT -5
Coco Crisp is now a royal.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 22, 2008 1:26:22 GMT -5
Read where the Brewers, sitting in limbo-land over Sabathia, are very hot for Matt Cain. Fielder and JJ Hardy may be going the other way. Wish the Yankees could figure out a way to pry Matt Cain over here, he's one of my favorite non-pinstripe personell.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 22, 2008 9:41:06 GMT -5
He's a #3 at best.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 22, 2008 10:35:08 GMT -5
Cain can be dominant at times. I would take him over Hughes, Kennedy, even Wang. Simply better stuff. I would find him preferable to a Burnett type, and would figure you would concur there.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 22, 2008 11:28:21 GMT -5
That would depend on years. I don't like Burnett because he doesn't pitch all that well, and is not durable. He did extremely well against 2 teams, but the rest of the league had his number.
Cain isn't that great and pitches in the NL. You'd have to add at least 0.50 to his ERA in the AL, and maybe more if he went to the AL East.
I probably would prefer him over Burnett, but that doesn't make him all that good. He's not the type of pitcher that will help this team win a championship.
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Post by Chris on Nov 23, 2008 1:31:54 GMT -5
Tom, eventually you have to swallow your pride and admit that Wang is a pretty good pitcher. Matt Cain is better than Wang? Wang has won 19 games twice, and in both those years he had similar ERAs to Cain, in the AMERICAN LEAGUE EAST. I'll take Cain over Hughes and Kennedy, but Wang? ? No way.
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