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Post by Chris on Dec 12, 2008 18:37:44 GMT -5
Really. Who did they lose that they needed him?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 12, 2008 18:41:44 GMT -5
They are gonna part ways with Pat the Bat.
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Post by Chris on Dec 12, 2008 18:43:53 GMT -5
Well, Ibanez is certainly an upgrade from Burrell, but I thought Burrell was firmly entrenched there.
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Post by Chris on Dec 12, 2008 18:52:40 GMT -5
I tell you what...IBANEZ would have been a solid addition to the Yankees. He could TOTALLY play center for us.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Dec 13, 2008 14:36:50 GMT -5
Ned Colletti has told "sources" that C.C. is as enamored with the Dodgers as they are with him, and told Colletti to get it done. ned lied
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Post by 9 on Dec 13, 2008 15:13:31 GMT -5
And Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Dec 13, 2008 15:47:11 GMT -5
lol
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 15, 2008 15:22:42 GMT -5
Jamie Moyer re-ups with the Phils, for another 2 seasons. By then he will be 48.
More power to him.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 15, 2008 15:28:37 GMT -5
Wow. Imagine if he hangs around for 300 wins. He's 54 wins away.
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Post by Chris on Dec 18, 2008 0:52:15 GMT -5
If Jamie Moyer hangs around for 300 wins....he will be the epitome of the COMPILER.
Don't look for him to be in the HOF, 300 wins or not.
The Dodgers have re-signed Rafael Furcal.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 18, 2008 8:35:38 GMT -5
he will be the epitome of the COMPILER.
So he'll take the mantle from Tommy John?
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Post by Chris on Dec 18, 2008 12:37:04 GMT -5
Yeah, pretty equivalent careers except that Tommy John beat Moyer by almost a full run in career ERA....and Moyer's is sure to go up.
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Post by Chris on Dec 18, 2008 14:48:27 GMT -5
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 23, 2008 11:02:42 GMT -5
Tommy John was much better than Moyer.
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Post by Chris on Dec 23, 2008 13:13:30 GMT -5
"Tommy John was much better than Moyer."
Hmmmm, really? Why? Because he was a Yankee?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 23, 2008 13:32:30 GMT -5
No, his reasoning is "he had a surgery named after him"
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 23, 2008 13:56:13 GMT -5
Chris--if you knew something about Tommy John other than that he was a Yankee, you would know that he was much better than Moyer. That whole near FULL RUN differential in lifetime ERA pretty much ends any debate.
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Post by Chris on Dec 23, 2008 13:56:20 GMT -5
Ah, well put him in the HOF next to Lou Gehrig then.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 23, 2008 14:02:05 GMT -5
Not next to Lou Gehrig, but he does deserve the shot.
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Post by Chris on Dec 23, 2008 17:27:01 GMT -5
Balls, if you paid attention to ANY baseball outside of the Bronx, you'd know that Jamie Moyer pitched in the steroid era and Tommy John pitched in an era when it wasn't at all uncommon for very mediocre pitchers to post ERAs in the low to mid threes.
Having said that, if John were truly hands down better than Moyer, I'd expect and ERA two runs lower.
Tommy John was a fairly good (slightly better than mediocre) pitchers for a long long time, with peaks and valleys....a serial compiler should be in the same line as me at the Hall Of Fame - buying a ticket.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 24, 2008 11:51:34 GMT -5
Chris--it doesn't matter. That's one of the lamest excuses ever. In the steroid era, Moyer was never more than a decent pitcher that put up solid numbers year to year, but nothing special. Tommy John was one of the better pitchers of his era.
To make up some lame curve to account for the steroid era is laughable. Tommy John's numbers are comparable to several HOFers. Moyer's are not.
The two are not even in the same league. You would know that if you ever saw Tommy John pitch.
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Post by Chris on Dec 25, 2008 16:35:30 GMT -5
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that I probably saw Tommy John pitch at least TWICE as much as you have...because, as has been mentioned here on several occasions, some of us have always paid attention to non-Yankee baseball as well.
I'd seen the guy pitch plenty...and have literally seen him pitch live in the three different stadiums for three different teams...although I never thought that fact would be worth a shit (until now, being called out for allegedly not knowing who Tommy John is)
And I won't deny that Moyer never had a single year as good some some of John's small handful of very good years, but overall, both were OK pitchers who compiled a shitload of stats. Nothing really mind-blowing about either guy.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 25, 2008 20:40:04 GMT -5
Cho nailed it, both guys are as ho-hum as you get, "surgery" aside.
Tommy John deserves as little a sniff at the Hall as Moyer does.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 25, 2008 22:13:08 GMT -5
If Tommy John doesn't deserve a sniff, neither does Blyleven.
If you really have seen Tommy John pitch, then you know comparing him to Moyer is laughable.
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Post by Chris on Dec 26, 2008 1:12:40 GMT -5
"If Tommy John doesn't deserve a sniff, neither does Blyleven."
Again Bingo. Plus Blyleven is an annoying ass. His complaining makes Goose Gossage look like Gary Cooper.
"If you really have seen Tommy John pitch, then you know comparing him to Moyer is laughable."
What do you think I am, some 23 year old living vicariously through ESPN Classic? I've seen the guy pitch plenty in multiple uniforms on two coasts. Tommy John was very good at his absolute best, which was brief, and never considered one of the greats of his era. Duct tape two Mike Witt careers together and you have Tommy John. Better than Moyer sure, but not by heads and tails, and certainly not HOF worthy.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 26, 2008 9:05:27 GMT -5
Ok then--you should not be comparing Tommy John to Jamie Moyer then. Mike Witt didn't have 3 20 win seasons. He didn't even have one. Mike Witt's lifetime ERA was 3.83. Mike Witt was better than Moyer, at least as long as he lasted, but he wasn't that great.
TJ was MUCH better than Moyer.
As for longevity, it does say something when someone is able to play in the majors for so long. That's the only thing Moyer has in common with TJ.
You don't think more players would stick around if they could? Guys like Jim Rice didn't retire because they wanted to walk away on top. They weren't on top. They retire because they aren't good enough to play in the majors anymore.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 26, 2008 9:17:44 GMT -5
Blyleven was much more dominant than John.
While John gave up more hits than innings pitched (4783 in 4710 innings) Blyleven gave up over 300 less (4632 hits in 4970 innings) - Blyleven also struck out 3701, to Johns 2245.
Blyleven was simply the better pitcher, and Hall worthy.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 26, 2008 9:45:58 GMT -5
Their ERAs were virtually the same, so who gives a shit? It doesn't matter how many hits you give up. It matters how many runs you give up.
To say that one was much better than the other is just not reading the stats. Similar in wins, except John did it in 200 less innings. John won 20 games 3 times. Blyleven did it once.
Similar in ERA, which is the ultimate stat.
Bottom line is that both careers are similar. The biggest difference is strikeouts, which means jack shit if you have the same ERA. A groundout is no less effective than a strikeout, if no one scores.
Either they both deserve it, or neither of them deserve it. Anything else just shows anti-Yankee blinders.
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Post by 9 on Dec 26, 2008 11:13:55 GMT -5
Whining and bitching aside, Blyleven deserves the nod over John or (when his time comes) Moyer.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 26, 2008 13:40:10 GMT -5
Um, no he doesn't. The two are so close that you can't separate them, unless you're a Yankee hater like Tom. They're essentially the same guy.
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