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Post by 9 on Dec 8, 2009 13:03:26 GMT -5
I like Granderson, although I'm sure Tom will pop on soon and shoot holes in his game. ;D
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 8, 2009 13:06:53 GMT -5
If they sign Damon and trade Swisher, it would be fine. Otherwise, we have another high strikeout/low average guy that won't show up in October which will hurt the lineup. For that reason alone, Tom will sing his praises. He loves those high strikeout/low average guys because homeruns are the only stat he sees.
And of course, our bullpen takes a hit, losing 2 pitchers in 2 days, one of whom is actually good. I still don't think Granderson alone is enough.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 8, 2009 13:32:27 GMT -5
12:19pm: Rosenthal says the revised deal has the Tigers getting two players from the Yanks rather than three, with Coke or Dunn out. AOL FanHouse's Ed Price tweets that the D'Backs and Tigers are awaiting signoff from the Yankees, and expect an answer within 40 minutes.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 8, 2009 13:34:11 GMT -5
Now more than ever, if they get Granderson, they need to trade Swisher. This guy may even bring less to the table with the bat since his OBP was just .320 and he can't hit lefties for shit.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 8, 2009 13:50:01 GMT -5
The Yankees told the Tigers they either wanted to give up three players or remove Dunn for a lesser prospect, a person involved in the talks said.
One key element to the deal is that Kennedy pitched in the Diamondbacks’ back yard in the Arizona Fall League and showed he had his command back after aneurysm surgery. Arizona officials were pleased with what they saw and believe he could go into their rotation in 2010 as a low-cost, back-end starter.
It has become clear that the Yankees are prioritizing adding Granderson. They understand that he strikes out a lot and has trouble against lefty pitching. But they see a guy who plays a premium position well that is reasonably priced (three years, $25.5 million), is 28, and has the rep as one of the nicest players in the game.
He had 30 homers last year playing home games in a tough stadium (Comerica Park) where he had 10. The Yankees see him helping to fill the lefty power void if free agents Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui do not return.
At the moment, the Yankees are feeling a wide gulf between what they think Damon is worth (the two-year, $20 million range at most) and what Damon/Scott Boras view he is worth (probably close to his expiring contract of four years at $52 million). One Yankees official said he views what Damon wants as “not reasonable” and Granderson’s presence would more easily allow the Yankees to not fold in negotiations to restore Damon and the lefty power.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 8, 2009 13:55:45 GMT -5
Report is trade is done physicals pending...
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 8, 2009 13:55:54 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if he's reasonably priced when he can't hit the ball against a good pitcher. The OF defense upgrades, but the offense took a big hit today.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 8, 2009 14:02:28 GMT -5
The OF defense upgrades, but the offense took a big hit today.
We traded 2 pitchers and a minor leaguer so explain this reasoning.........now if they want they can give Damon a take it or leave it offer and if he accepts the offense is even better and if not put Melky / Gardner there and use saved money to get back end / relief pitching upgrades....
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 8, 2009 14:25:43 GMT -5
Ultimately, money saved doesn't win games. Melky, Gardner and Granderson are ALL better defensively than Damon. No question. BUT, offensively, this is a big hit. You are taking away a good hitter and replacing him with speedy second Swisher--except with an even LOWER OBP.
With Damon back, you could bench Swisher or trade him, maybe replenish the farm.
Seems like they are giving UP backend/relief pitching by losing Coke & Kennedy, and just got rid of one of their best trading chips in Jackson for a guy who hit .180 against lefties. Ultimately, that's a platoon player.
2007 and 2008 Granderson would be a solid addition. 2009 Granderson was outright awful, and it says something when Detroit is willing to part with a reasonably priced outfielder in his prime. The production has gone down dramatically over the last 2 years.
For all we know, he was juicing in 2007-08.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 8, 2009 14:53:47 GMT -5
He is reasonably priced for us yet high priced for Detroit as they are in cut and slash mode..Also I remember seeing you making a comment about him possibly "juicing" in 2007. He hit 30 HRs last year!!
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 8, 2009 15:06:41 GMT -5
30 HR, but with a .249 batting average. Juicing doesn't just affect power. Giambi also juiced, but kept his power for the most part. His average dropped dramatically when he got off the juice. And no, I have NO evidence whatsoever that Granderson juiced other than a 50 point drop in batting average and a 30 point drop in OBP.
I've been comparing Granderson to Swisher, but I will admit that Granderson at his worst is about the same as Swisher at his best.
What bothers me is that he can't hit lefties at all.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 8, 2009 15:09:58 GMT -5
For me this trade is really Granderson for Jackson.....We'll see what Jackson becomes....
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 8, 2009 15:22:00 GMT -5
I think you're devaluing Ian Kennedy though. He could be a competent starting pitcher, especially in the NL where they suck. This trade may also be Damon and Jackson for Granderson. That's the problem. Damon is a much better hitter than Granderson.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 8, 2009 15:43:53 GMT -5
Not at all kennedy would be nothing in the AL and especially the AL East..I do think that he could possibly be successful in the NL but that was not going to do anything for us which is precisely my point. Also I disagree that Damon is MUCH better then Granderson (you know what I meant)....
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 8, 2009 16:03:19 GMT -5
Well, I will say that Damon is about equal to Damon. However, when factoring in the higher average, fewer strikeouts and the ability to hit lefties, plus a proven ability to thrive in the postseason and NY, and there's no question offensively, this is a pretty big downgrade.
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Post by 9 on Dec 8, 2009 18:14:46 GMT -5
Fuck Ian Kennedy.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 8, 2009 18:28:27 GMT -5
Only interesting thing I have read recently on Kennedy was that he was getting more "swings and misses" than anyone in the league while playing Fall ball. He was apparently ON. But no worries. This trade is MONEY. Granderson is going to be a super-duperstar here. Tremendous move.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 8, 2009 18:29:37 GMT -5
I like Granderson, although I'm sure Tom will pop on soon and shoot holes in his game
Dude, you got me so wrong on this one....guess you missed my Facebook post?
Granderson was one of my favorite players in the game. For once the Yankees traded for a guy I do not have to learn to like. Love everything about this deal.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 8, 2009 19:31:58 GMT -5
Definitely a bad call predicting Tom would trash Granderson. He's totally Tom's kind of player. Low average, high strikeouts, hits a homerun slightly less than 5 % of his at bats, and is a prime candidate to not help the Yankees because he will disappear in October.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 8, 2009 19:38:47 GMT -5
Nah I knew Tom would love this move because the one thing he likes more than pooping on Yankee trades is pooping all over their prospects and how overrated they are and that trumps any Yankee pooping he does...LOL
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Post by 9 on Dec 8, 2009 22:55:58 GMT -5
Dude, you got me so wrong on this one....guess you missed my Facebook post? Granderson was one of my favorite players in the game. For once the Yankees traded for a guy I do not have to learn to like. Love everything about this deal. Ditto. The worst thing that happens is Austin Jackson turning into a good player. Granderson's numbers will improve with more support and a hitters' ballpark.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 9, 2009 6:44:42 GMT -5
Actually, the worst thing that happens is Granderson plays like he did last year. Lifetime average of .210 against lefties. .180 last year. So even with improvement, he can't hit lefties. That's a big time weakness for the top of the lineup. Here's a good article in today's Daily News that addresses some of the same concerns I have about this deal. www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/12/09/2009-12-09_deal_puts_johnny_on_spot.htmlGranderson does not make the Yankees better at this time--not without Damon and Matsui on the team.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 9, 2009 9:09:57 GMT -5
Just about all my prospect sites (who called this a huge win for the Yankees) had this to say about Austin Jackson - his loss to the Yankees is negligible, cause if he reaches HIS BEST, he projects to be Curtis Granderson lite.
Granderson is only 29, and many are predicting he will flourish in a loaded Yankee lineup.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 9, 2009 9:33:21 GMT -5
Now assuming they sign Pettite I would like to see them sign Ben Sheets to a Smoltz type deal (ala the Red Sox last year) and take a chance on him...Also if Damon doesn't take the take it or leave it I can see them going after Marlon Byrd,
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 9, 2009 9:59:28 GMT -5
Logically, if Austin Jackson is Granderson-lite, then of course the move makes some sense--except for the potential of using Jackson as a chip for a better player.
The lineup is already guaranteed to be worse than last year--unless they re-sign both Damon and Matsui and dump Swisher--which I think is pretty unlikely.
Byrd is a decent alternative to Damon, though not as good.
Damon and Matsui both provide lefty pop for Yankee Stadium AND can hit lefties. That's a tough thing to lose.
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Post by 9 on Dec 9, 2009 10:13:25 GMT -5
I still think it's obvious that Granderson has the skills, and the combination of a better lineup around him and a hitters' ballpark will boost those stats. I'm not saying .330, but we don't need freaking .330 at every position.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 9, 2009 10:16:05 GMT -5
Andy Pettitte, Yankees Closing In On Deal By Tim Dierkes [December 9 at 9:11am CST] The Yankees are closing in on a deal with Andy Pettitte for about $12MM, tweets SI's Jon Heyman. He says the contract will be finalized today.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 9, 2009 10:26:54 GMT -5
No, but the problem is that the skills have been on the decline. Doesn't it raise a slight red flag that Detroit was willing to trade a reasonably priced former all star CFer in his prime years that is locked up?
My fear is that they knew something the Yanks didn't. The problem is that while you don't need a .330 hitter at every position, having multiple weak spots in the lineup will hurt your playoff chances. Swisher and Granderson together puts in 2 out of 9 weak hitters. HRs do not change that last year, Granderson was a weak hitter.
.249, 141 Ks. 30 HRs do not cancel that.
.210 lifetime against lefties, .180 last year. I HOPE that can get better, but not being able to hit a lefty means in reality, he should platoon.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Dec 9, 2009 10:33:08 GMT -5
Byrd and Granderson are superior to Damon and Cabrera imo. Talking as a duo all around....
Damon and Damon are better then all combos..LOL Hi Balls!
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 9, 2009 11:08:43 GMT -5
I don't know about that because Damon has a nice OBP. Plus, Cabrera is already in the lineup and we're talking about replacing Damon and Matsui. I cannot fathom the loyalty Swisher gets from Girardi, but I like both Melky AND Gardner better than Swisher. Ultimately, if they got Byrd too, I'd like to see him in left or center, with Melky/Gardner in right.
Swisher and Granderson bring in two glaring weaknesses in the lineup.
By the way, Pettitte is about to be re-signed. 1 year, $11.75 million from my sources.
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