TNA moving back to Thursday!

[$heriff Tom]

Folks, I am super-stoked for this one.

As mentioned, my plan is in place. As big a fan of Bret Hart as I am, and as well as WWE teased this last week with the bit between Vince and HBK, I am choosing TNA and Hogan and his crew tonight.

DVRing Raw, I may run up after 11 and check it out tonight and sleepwalk through the day tomorrow, or watch it at a more leisurely pace tomorrow. Either way, Ill be following along during commercials, and on my Blackberry.

We know for fact Scott Hall and X-Pac will be on hand tonight. RVD was rumored, but thats not happening. Other names being bandied about are Ric Flair (they have been trying like Hell, but there are money holdups), Goldberg (not now, not yet at least), Mr Kennedy (likely from some sources) and Jeff Hardy (not happening although he is "in town" - apparently with his buddy Shannon Moore who is meeting with Hogan / TNA)

Either way, Im looking forward to a solid show. There will be the obligatory X-Division terrordome match, and a couple of solid womens matches already announced (and you all know i am a big fan of the women) - Taylor and Sarita vs Kong and the fantastic Hamada will be a fun one.

TNA is promising SURPRISES. While I am afraid to end up dissapointed, I have enjoyed their product for a long time, and consistently put it over RAW. Raw has been terrible for a long time, and I wont switch my allegience during a face to face contest just cause I like the guest host.

[cactusjames]

Good for you, Bret doesn't deserve the viewers. I'm DVRing Raw as well cause i can't listen to him talk. The only interest is how he gets involved with DX. Beyond that he's doing nothing good for the show.

TNA is loaded tonight. And I heard Jeff Hardy will be in the building like you said with Shannon Moore. Dixie Carter tweeted Jeff Hardy will be crashing the party. I enjoyed the women's thing from new years, and think they will follow it up strongly tonight. I admit, I could careless about Hogan,. I pretty much can't win tonight with no football and two of my most hated wrestlers on each show. So I gotta choose who has the more entertaining supporting cast around tonight's star? TNA. So I will flip when Hogan is on like I will when Bret is on.

[$heriff Tom]

UNCONFIRMED reports Ric Flair was spotted at the Charlotte airport today, on his way to Orlando, where the TNA tapings are.

James, this will really piss you off, huh?

[cactusjames]

Yes but I wouldn't be surprised. With the Hulkamania tour I kinda knew he'd show up. But he did ROH stuff and even that plus the Hulkamania tour it didn't really ruin the sendoff. If he just appears as a guest I won't mind as much, just by showing up he's putting the product over and he knows competition is good for the business. But if he gets in a TNA ring, Shawn should take back the watches.

[$heriff Tom]

All signs point to him not being just a guest if he shows up in TNA. And why jeapordize whatever relationship he does have with WWE, just to stand around and wave?

Vince wont take to it well.

He will end up back in the ring from most accounts. I agree its a piss thing to do, but I also would find it interesting to unfold.

[cactusjames]

It's the same with Hogan, you got guys like you who are lifelong fans and will watch whatever he's on, and there;'s other people like me who know the crap he pulls but are still interested to see what happens to TNA with him there. Cause love or hate the guy, we wouldn't be talking about the showdown tonight if not for Hogan. If TNA went up against Raw tonight without Hogan, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. But Flair is the kind of guy no matter what he's always entertaining, and it's just awesome to see Naitch whenever you can. And I agree, you want to see how he moves forward with TNA.

And Flair has always bounced around, this is nothing new. But after what WWE did for him, it's almost like a slap in the face. And I wonder since Vince will be pissed how will Hunter be affected, back up his father in law or support his friend?

[$heriff Tom]

If TNA went up against Raw tonight without Hogan, it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Maybe to some or most, but some like me prefer Impact to Raw, and will always choose a live Impact over Raw when they battle Monday nights. And that is what I am going to do whenever TNA takes this plunge.

[cactusjames]

I'm not saying that, but would it have as much hype as it's gotten? Wrestling fans will be into no matter what, but without Hogan, even with people like us who will be watching Impact, if Hogan wasn't there it wouldn't have the pop it has. He made the showdown a big deal, otherwise it would have been hey let's see if TNA can draw against Raw. But with Hogan, you want to see where the company goes and how invovled he's going to be with friends, etc. We know he's writing we know he has say from merch to booking. So it's interesting to see how it all plays out. If he wasn't there, all we'd care about is how will they compare. With Hogan I think we want to see how they not only compare and where TNA goes from here, but can Impact actually get a better rating than Raw? Without Hogan I don't think they have a chance to draw a better rating. Hogan changes the entire landscape of the company.

[sean]

this is the most excited I've been about anything wrestling related in years. Actually, I can not remember the last time I was looking forward to a night of wrestling. I haven't watched anything WWE since early this summer, but I'm looking forward to the Hitman. But even more so, I'm looking forward to Impact, and I'm not even a Hogan fan. In fact, this is so big, Dave called me yesterday to talk about wrestling, the first time that has happened in years. One thing I'm really intrigued about is Kurt Angle. He'd be a perfect heel to a Good guy Hogan. But they turned Angle 180 to be a good guy. will Hogan be a heel? Will Hogan and Angle be pals? and the Foley/Hulk angle...one of the most well done set-ups I can remember. Should be fun...can't wait

[$heriff Tom]

Thing with Angle and Hogan....even though there is very much mutual respect and they would LOVE to work a program together, Hogans appearances in the ring are going to be rare, if at all. He is really not going there to wrestle. And even if he did, Angles style would not be conducive to the bumps Hogan would be willing to take, which are hardly none. The Flair / Hogan matches in Australia last month were complete comedy angles.

Yeah, Im crazy stoked about tonight. Beers on ice.

[cactusjames]

Fuck Hogan, I love the mini kliq reunion. Just gotta get rid of one bald yellow haired guy and add two more guys. But still, 3 out of 5 is nice.

[$heriff Tom]

Wow. Just wow. The TNA landscape has changed. Jeff Hardy! Ric Flair! Hall and X-Pac! The Nasty Boys! Val Venis! Orlando Jordan!

All kinds of hooey. Much more will come out on the tapings Tuesday night, which we will need to wait over a week to see on TV. Much more on this Tuesday.

[sancho231]

what i saw on both shows was good, great match between AJ and Kurt, good one with Kofi and Bob orton the 3rd. Really liked the end of Raw fucking vince is a snake. what was up with Foley getting his ass kicked by NWO??

[cactusjames]

I liked both shows, but did feel it was a little too much too fast with TNA. It was a lot of stuff going on to take in, I'm not a fan of that all the time. The first match was total crap, why that got a no finish I don't know. The fans reaction was great. The Jeff Hardy situation was terrible, what a shitty way to treat a big star. Orlando Jordan didn't get heel heat, he got get the fuck out heat. Styles and Angle was good, and other than that every match was under like 7 minutes. The Morgan match was a total of 30 seconds of non stop action. Flair did nothing to excite me standing there, and seriously, if has to wrestle Styles, don't even fucking bother. Cause as great as Naitch is, he won't be able to keep up(look at Styles match with Sting, he's too fast paced for the older guys).

As to the Hogan stuff, I admit, it got my curiosity. But the thing I hate, and TNA does this a lot. I read it on the sites but I thought this watching it, why do they have to blur the lines between who's heel and face? Enough already. But just seeing Kev, Scott and Kid together again was great. I thought character wise they're better cause you know where they stand. Hogan was against Jarrett but had them back off Foley? Hogan as a tweener doesn't do anything for me. Seeing what the Outsiders do back together again, way better. And really, the Nasty Boys? It's two years till the end of the world and we're still talking about the Nasty Boys? Get the fuck out of here with that shit. And my only biased stuff from tonight is that Bubba sucks cock. What an asshole he is. Totally irrelevant and not needed. And while I'm biased, I wouldn't want OnA on there(although they weren't bad as the host of the XFL).

Raw was on point tonight. I marked for the teased superkick. But them in the ring again kicked ass. And Shawn point blank said, Bret disrespected him and the business. Looks like Cactus James was right again. I thought the Tag Title match was really good and surprised it wasn't the main event. Orton and Kofi was good. Nice stuff with Legacy. I liked Jericho and Bret together and thought he'd be back, and I was disappointed the Hart Dynasty wasn't on. But the angle at the end was great, sets up for return appearances so maybe we'll see them down the road. Vince is so fucking great to just hate him, it isn't even funny anymore.

Bottom line, I think Raw was the stronger show, from an unbiased, pure wrestling fan standpoint, it was better written, delivered, and had way better(and longer) in ring action. And also, the big winner tonight was the kliq. DX had a great tag title defense, HBK and Hitman in the same ring again, and the Outsiders were great and the more interesting of the newest additions. TNA will be cool to see how it unfolds, but Raw gets the W tonight in my book.

[$heriff Tom]

Well, as usual I hardly agree with anything James has to say here. Lets go point by point.

One, in regards to TNA doing "too much." Sure, thats a way to look at it. But so much is still open-ended. Whats going to happen with Foley? Jarrett? Who is the masked man? Whats up with Sting? What is Flairs role? Jeff Hardys? They set themselves up for a ton of things, and have the wrestling world buzzing.

As to Orlando Jordan, it was NOT "go-away heat." People simply had no idea who he was. Was that bungled? Sure. Does that mean anything? No, who cares?

Flair seems to be set up to mentor AJ, not necessarily wrestle him, at least anytime remotely soon. Lets hold the horses on that.

Also, how are you seeing Hogan as a "tweener?" The Jarrett thing? Hogan simply said what the entire wrestling world outside of the people inside the Impact Zone at a given time are thinking. The segment backfired, yes. But that was not meant to drift Hogan into heeldom. Hogan is playing the role of someone trying to do right by the company, while he has a bunch of friends and old faces around trying to get their agendas in.

Keep telling yourself Raw was the better show, it is certainly not the going opinions on the sites. From what i am seeing in a bunch of places, aside from the Bret Hart stuff, Raw was once again BOORRRRINNNNNGGG. Boring enough from the recaps and reviews i read last night during Impact where i cancelled my plans to watch Raw immediatly afterwards, and will possibly not even watch till tomorrow now.

[$heriff Tom]

Oh, and one more thing Jerky James. Its ridiculous that HBK played it so super-serious and did what everyone thinks was a great job with Bret, only to turn around and partake in more nonsense with Hornswoggle. Totally ruins the effect and drama of the earlier stuff. The guy needs to stop playing the fool!

[heartybooooo]

I flipped back and forth through much of it last night. I was shocked by how bad Bret Hart looked. And Scott Hall got fat. TNA was much more compelling to me. I think getting rid of Jericho is a huge mistake as he is one of the few things that makes Raw interesting to me. Kofi does nothing for me and seems like a waste of Orton's talent and heat.

[cactusjames]

Um Kofi is winning money in the bank this year he's fine. Orton got him to the main event level. Orton will be in the main mix at Mania, Kofi will be in MITB.

And since Tom did nothing but read pro TNA sites, I will reiterate. I did not think Impact was bad, and I even said as MY LAST SENTENCE that it will be cool to see how all the different things develop.

Speaking as neither a TNA or WWE guy, There was much more focus on the two hour Raw, than the ADD infested 3 hour Impact that was on. Nothing last night was oh my god I can't watch. And I've been to two sites since the shows ended and Raw is being praised all around.

And please Tom, disagree with me all you want, but to imply I don't know what a fucking tweener is is insulting. Why did he get of JJ and tell him he's just like everyone else, when obviously Foley and JJ are going to fighting side by side. Yet JJ gets shown up by hogan, but he spares Foley a worse beating? Cause Nash and Foley are feuding but all the sudden hogan shows up and they stop? Do I want to see what happens next week when Impact is on? Fuck yeah. But Hogan did not come across as either face or heel last night. He tells Nash, Hall and Kid it's not going to be the way it was, to big cheers from the crowd. Then he rips into Jarrett who got a huge pop from the crowd, who then was BOOING Hogan. I love when people ignore the live crowd and act like the reaction you're supposed to get from the crowds is wrong.

That's cool if you like TNA better, cause I never said it was bad, I enjoyed both shows. But Raw had around 25 30 minutes of action, maybe more. TNA had one match go over 10. The storylines are cool, but I didn't want to watch 3 hours of interviews and segments. Let me see some wrestling.

As to the Hornswoggle thing, he hardly has an effect on DX. He's there for comic relief and I don't mind one bit because I love the jokes Hunter makes. When HHH was champ last uyear, he shit on everyone, made fun of every challenger, he was the smart ass face chanp and no one cared. DX does it and it's campy. Do a comparioson, he was all over Finlay's matches, how long wqas he out last night? 45 seconds? Who gives a shit? Orlando jordan not a problem, but a 40 second cameo by Horny and it's bad. Funny how fickle you guys are, when he was a kids attraction with Finlay Tom didn't mind him. Now he's with the green and black and somehow they're both fools. If Horny gets 1 minutes of air time that hardly takes away from the show.

Again I liked both shows, but from a wrestling standpoint, yeah TNA got buzz cause there was 3 hours of storylines and hardly auny wrestling. Raw did a great job of getting action in the ring and moving the storyline forward with the Rumble coming up and the Road to Mania starting.

you gotta remember, TNA aside, this is when WWE gets into high gear regarding setting shit up for WM. Even if you like Impact more to not watch the show and still know for sure it's so bad to not even watch, it's almost silly. I don't mean to call anyone out, you can have your preference and have every right to say TNA was better, but if you call Raw bad, especially after not seeing it, you don't know wrestling.

[heartybooooo]

What I saw of Raw I didn't love, but that has more to do with my general dissatisfaction for wrestlers. The DX story feels like a retread or a second sequel. Kingston is boring to me. A bunch of the same spots in every match. I like Orton and Legacy but they need to move it forward and either make them dominant or have them feud. Seamus has been done before- the industructible big guy- Diesel, Goldberg, Kane, the Big Show, Psycho Sid. Like I said, the only person who was interesting to me on Raw is now gone. Jericho even made the Big Show interesting.

[$heriff Tom]

I agree with Chris in that Kofi is somewhat one-dimensional in the ring. And that dissapoints me, cause when he first arrived I wanted to like him, and when he first started mixing it up with Orton, I was intrigued. But now I would rather watch Carlito.

Yeah, the Legacy thing is plodding along. Time to crap or get off the pot with that. Pretty sure its going to end up with Orton vs Ted Jr in time for Mania.

Not sure the deal with Jericho...most expected him to win back his Raw slot. Maybe its something simple like he was being overworked, and its time for some other people to appear on all the shows.

James, I still disagree with you, and there is no such thing as a "pro-TNA" site. TNA is almost always lampooned. Its just last night they scored an audience who is usually not there, and they seem to have pulled it off, with a lot of buzz and interest, and a lot of people admitting to enjoying the show while not expecting to.

By the way, is there a better TV performer than Eric Bischoff? The guy is MONEY in his role, tremendous.

[cactusjames]

Now this is what puzzles me, Seamus is been done before but Bischoff hasn't been playing the same character for the past 15 years.

And I'm not bashing TNA or the show, and I'm also not saying Raw didn't have boring points. i also agree with Kofi, I mean he's a decent mid card, and they're trying to give him a main event rub, but I agree the spots are too scripted. But he's decent. It's not going to be too boring with him as long as he has someone good to work with.

All my point is, from a wrestling standpoint, Raw was better. Buzz standpoint, 100% goes to TNA. But that doesn't mean Raw sucked just cause one generated more interest. Compared to Raws recently, it was very good. And any polls I saw has TNA ahead as the better show last night, but not by much. TNA has been overbooked for a long time now, and I'm more than annoyed how they keep blurring lines with who is a face and who's a heel.

But if we're talking what was the better wrestling show, I'm going with the show that had the most wrestling. The womens tag title match and the world title match were the longest. All other matches were under 7 to 8 minutes. That's insane. But sure, if you like a show that's pure storyline driven with very little action, then yes I can see why you loved Impact so much.

To me though, Raw stepped up big from previous weeks and has a good amount of interest. DX is fine cause there going to playing up is Shawn focused on the Tag Titles or a Mania rematch with Taker. For a while no show other than ECW pushed younger talent. Now Seamus is champ and Cena is chasing which to me is more interesting than having Cena do his impression of Hogan every fucking match. Vince and Bret is gold. And there's still a shitload more time to hype up other storylines and develop more feuds. And Raw took a really good step in that direction.

While TNA made me want to keep watching, I could have done without the TNA staples that have been bitched about for a while. If they just did plain set ups to upcoming feuds fine, but the who's on who's side was done with the MEM last year. Now it's going to be nWo all over again? Do I want to see what happens? Yes but to me the show could have been way better than it was and created a way bigger buzz than it did, and the interest they got in tremendous right now.

So yeah, you like the soap opera side of wrestling, TNA was way better than Raw. But I like most wrestling fans don't want to think too much when it comes to storylines and would trade more in ring time for the time spent on segments. In that regard in my mind, WWE was way better. But if you like a tired act like the Nasty Boys than I don't even know how to carry a conversation. Hall was fat, but let's throw Hogan's friends the Nasty Boys in the ring. Yep, that makes sense.

[MSBNYY]

I can't comment on TNA until I see it, but I didn't think Raw was all that bad. The Bret stuff was decent, though I felt there was definitely some rust with Bret. Knowing about his stroke, it was so obvious how careful McMahon was when he kicked him. But that's understandable.

I haven't checked out TNA in a couple of years, so it will be interesting to see how I feel about it.

From what everyone is saying, it just sounds like Nitro as if WCW never went out of business. The only real difference is the three letters.

[$heriff Tom]

From what everyone is saying, it just sounds like Nitro as if WCW never went out of business

From what who is saying? Yeah, NWO was there, Nasty Boys. The show was 3 hours. There was also AJ Styles, a lot of Knockout action, The Pope, an X Division cage match, Desmond Wolfe.

Thats a weak statement.

The buzz paid off as TNA got its HIGHEST RATING EVER, and that means we may be seeing them every Monday night soon.

Oh, and the highest rated segment? HOGANS APPEARANCE from 9-915, which just happened to go against Bret Hart. Hart, with the WWE machine and built-in audience had the higher rating, but most had expected WWE to barrell Impact into the ground.

Oh, and James, for a guy who supposedly subscribes to premium sites, how did you miss all the Hogan interviews where he said they are going to SIMPLIFY everything, that is the goal, that he wants things less story driven? This was the FIRST EPISODE, a new chapter, they are establishing baselines. Go out and find out what they are trying to do in the long run before you have your speeches intact.

[cactusjames]

Um I was commenting honestly from the heart what i felt about THE ONE FUCKING EPISODE!!!! I read what the fuck he said, I'm sick of being treated like I'm fucking clueless cause my opinion differs from yours. The episode that aired last night was not simplified.

For someone who gives me shit for being an HBK mark you sure love to go by what Bret Hart and Hogan say. If hogan said the sky was orange you'd believe him. Jesus between this shit and MSB I know why Grover isn't on this board anymore. This fucking section could sure use him. I feel like I'm smacking my head into a brick wall. This section had more like the past 3 days cause of me than the past 3 months. Have fun making a post no one will respond to.

Why start a message board if the two mods here can't tolerate other peoples opinions without demeaning their intelligence on the matter? Ever wonder why I was gone for 5 months? Probably not. Anyway, delete me I don't fucking give a shit anymore at 23. When i can't even have a different opinion and give examples to why I feel a certain way without those opinions just being downright dismissed, it's a pure and simple waste of time.

good Hulkly said they're gonna simplify. If you think last night was a simple three hours we didn't watch the same fucking impact. Have a nice day.

You started a board to be different than section39. Well Tone or Midget Mike could be saying the same thing right now and I wouldn't know the difference.

[MSBNYY]

Geez James--and I've been agreeing with you for the most part the past few days. You're a little like Tom, who argues with people that take the same side hence the quote "even when I agree with you I disagree."

I will be able to talk about TNA a little better in a few days when I catch it, though it is a low priority. But still, they seemed to pull a Nitro just from what I'm reading here. They have a big show that brings in a lot of former WWE guys, and they do their thing. Yes, they have different names like Styles, and I know he's really good, but they seem to be following a similar formula. I'm just waiting for Bischoff to announce the results of Smackdown.

[$heriff Tom]

Yeah, James, what the F. Cant you handle spirited discussion?

Ive been happy to see you back, we need this kind of discourse. No one is shouting you down, we can agree to disagree.

Oh, and Balls, as to Styles, the match with Angle was rated high across the board, and the ratings went back up after a decline earlier in the hour, which is a good sign for TNA and fans buying into their World Champion, a guy who would never even get a peek in the WWE due to his size and unassuming look.

[MSBNYY]

I obviously haven't seen Styles wrestle since TNA went to 2 hours, but from what I remember, he was very good.

I don't know if it's accurate to say he wouldn't get a look in the WWE. Maybe at one point that was true, and of course the WWE does have a preference for the monsters, but there have been smaller wrestlers that have done well. The transition from the Hogan Era to the Hart/HBK Era was a big downsize for the heavyweight champ, and no one can say Mysterio has had a bad run.

[sancho231]

[/i]no one can say Mysterio has had a bad run[/i].

Really?? His Run As world Champ was the most times i'd seen a world champ get pinned during his run. holy shit he lost like 5 or non totle matches

[MSBNYY]

Yeah, but he got there. He got to main event status.

He was a shit champ. I can't stand him. But he is a small wrestler with a main event status.

[$heriff Tom]

Balls, he was an absolute disaster as Champ. His run wasnt respected, ratings went down on his show, and he was beaten to a pulp. He was played like an "accidential champion" who fell into the belt. Most of his friends to this day say he would have been better off with NO run than a run like that one.