MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 17, 2007 11:50:45 GMT -5
They should do a season of Ultimate Fighter featuring the Pride guys. I really don't know anything about them.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 17, 2007 11:58:03 GMT -5
So take a guy who's a getting a big contract to fight with ufc and send him to their developmental rality show? Oh yeah, Pride guy X is an established fighter with arguably a tougher form of MMA, throw him in the mix ASAP. Watch out for Cro Cop.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 17, 2007 12:07:48 GMT -5
I'm assuming first that the Pride fighters will be converting to UFC rules, right?
Ultimate Fighter is more than a developmental show--or at least it could be. For example--see the last season. It was a comeback show. Failed UFC fighters were given another shot. They probably were more talented than any other group because they made it on their own to the UFC initially. They just had a bad run there. Winner gets a title shot. And the first winner to fight for the title just won the belt.
They could possibly do something like UFC: PRIDE, where the audience gets to know them. Also, Ultimate Fighter did more than just introduce the contestants. The audience gets to know the coaches, who are top level UFC fighters.
Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, Rich Franklin, Matt Hughes, George St. Pierre, all were coaches on that show and probably became household names as a result.
That show did more for UFC than all the PPVs. That's why I think Pride Fighters wouldn't mind. More exposure means more fame, which means higher profile fights and more money.
I've brought this up before, but contestants on that show can walk down the street with a world champ, and while the contestants get recognized, the champ doesn't.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 17, 2007 13:42:56 GMT -5
Which is why I'm not crazy about the UF, I'll watch the show that has fights but screw the learning, coaching crap. It's a realty show. Better than Tugh Enough but still the same thing almost. To me the champs are important, so someone who doesn't know any of the champs becuse he's watching the develpmental learnng show isn't getting the full dose of UFC. You can't put Pride guys on the UF, they're highly paid guys who already have the skill to compete for titles. I don't want to see someone who already knows how to kill someone learn the ropes. or in this case the cage.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 17, 2007 13:48:17 GMT -5
In this case, it wouldn't be learning the ropes, it would be more of a tournament. The show has become much less of a show and much more emphasizing on the fights themselves. It's important to get to know who these people are too, but they don't have stupid challenges anymore.
I agree the champs are important. But this show helped bring this sport to a much wider audience.
Tough Enough was wrestling. You get an idea of what it takes for a newbie to learn wrestling, but it's so much different, because you don't have to fight someone for real to stay on the show.
I'm sure they won't use UF to introduce the Pride guys for reasons you've stated, but it should be interesting.
They should immediately put the top Pride fighters in the octagon with the top UFC fighters. Don't fuck around and unify all the titles. In fact, it would be interesting to do that all in one night.
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Post by sancho231 on Apr 17, 2007 14:00:17 GMT -5
how the Fuck i UFC gettin Sportscenter highlights?Vince better take notice UFC is growing as is a lot of MMA.woulndt suprise me if in 5 years MMA tops wrestling
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 17, 2007 14:35:03 GMT -5
Because the media will always see wrestling as a cricus sidesho, and UFC is real fighting with real athleticism. Cause as we all know, athleticism doesn't exist in wrestling. The ends are scripted so these guys don't bust their ass and hurt themselves doing shit they were trained to do.
Pride guys will get thrown into the mix rather quickly, against pretty well known guys. don't expect a quick title shot but they'll have pressure will be on them to show up or go home.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 17, 2007 14:45:29 GMT -5
UFC would be on Sportscenter because it is a real sport. Wrestling is not.
Yes, wrestlers are phenomenal athletes. But with predetermined outcomes, it's more like a show than a sport.
I think it makes more sense to have champion v. champion fights right away. If a Pride champion loses to a lesser UFC opponent, it makes Pride look bad and it hurts the marketability of that champ v champ fight.
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Post by grover on Apr 17, 2007 14:57:42 GMT -5
From what I've been told, Dana White will continue to run Pride as a Japanese branch. I'm sure you will see mixed supercards, and fighters going here and there, but it will not be united.
I aslo expect them to change the Pride rule format. It was very inconsistent and White ALWAYS ripped it to shreds. I'm sure you won't see different weight classes fighting anymore. That will probably be the first to go.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 17, 2007 15:57:01 GMT -5
Without the unification bouts, it kind of defeats the purpose. It would be like McMahon buying WCW and keeping it just as separate.
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Post by sancho231 on Apr 19, 2007 0:34:04 GMT -5
umm wasnt vince mergeing the F and WCW a bad thing? shit id love to see WCW come back as a true competior, but thats for another thread.Pride should stay byitself i could watch some of that, cant really get into UFC and will most likey never Buy one of they PPVS
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Post by grover on Apr 19, 2007 1:12:57 GMT -5
Well, the thing with Pride is that it's a money maker. It's owners were assholes who bit off more than they can chew money wise, and had to bail. Eliminating Pride and just putting UFC there might eliminate take a chunk out of that market, since the Japanese love and identify with that brand so much. Pride would sell out huge crowds, sometimes outdrawing UFC bouts by quite a bit. The main thing is that fighters will be able to switch over easier, and from what I have heard they will have a once a year supershow, UFC Vs. Pride.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 19, 2007 12:53:24 GMT -5
Vince merging WCW and WWE at first was awesome. It allowed for dream matches that you couldn't otherwise see. But I think that with real sports, there's nothing wrong with it. These fighters are supposed to be the best. How can someone claim to be the best when he can't fight certain people?
I'd like to think this merger will open doors, not close them.
I know little about Pride, but I would love to see their top champions fight against the UFC top champions. It would be interesting to see what happens. Maybe Pride fighters are all better. Maybe UFC fighters are all better. Maybe it's even.
I like the idea of a supershow. I think it should actually be done twice a year--once with UFC rules, once with Pride rules.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 20, 2007 7:34:52 GMT -5
Ok, so I was watching Ultimate Fighter last night, and it turns out UFC 70 is being shown for free in the US. This Saturday, 9pm. Cro Cop is on the card. Is Cro Cop from Pride?
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 20, 2007 11:27:02 GMT -5
Yup, and he's fucking nasty, he's going to be in contention for a title very soon. Go to Youtube and just search Cro Cop and you can see highlights of his knockouts and shit. I'd post a link but I'm lazy. Worth it though. Who did they say he was fighting, or they just said he'd be on the card?
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Post by grover on Apr 20, 2007 11:33:44 GMT -5
Yes, he was in Pride for years, until recently coming over to UFC before Pride was bought. He's Croatian, but he was part of the Russian police or something like that, hence the nickname 'Cro-Cop'. Him and Chukc Liddell are probably my favorite fighters. Liddell has his knockout punch, Crocop has a knockout kick. He's awesome.
I too would love a UFC/Pride merger, but I can understand why they are running it separate. It's the Japanese market that they are playing too, and by keeping the pride name they are letting them have their brand, and keeping the old "Who's better UFC or Pride?" thing alive, which will make even more money once guys go from promotion to promotion, and finally have the annual Supershow, which will make a ton of cash.
The UFC brass will change a few things here and there, and the only thing I can see happening from some interviews by Dana White are the open weightclass battles they had which has the possibility of ruining the mystique of some fighters. Wanderlei Silva, who's a middleweight, fought and lose to Dan Henderson, a welterweight. That loss ruined the chances of a Silva/Liddell fight everyone was going nuts for, because most UFC fans figured if Silva can get caught with a knockout punch by a welterweight, then Liddell will bop him. So, they will make excuses and delay a bit, and wait for people to forget. LOL! Just like in boxing, the mystique and hype helps draw fans and PPV buys.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 20, 2007 11:47:44 GMT -5
And now they're doing a lightweight or featherweight division or some shit now, look for shit that happened with Silva/Henderson/Liddell to happen more frequently now.
And I agree with the merger, make everyone wait for future dream matches, bringing in a few guys at a time like Cro Cop etc. is a much better idea long term, you get the fans itching to see more after seeing a handful of pride guys fight.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 20, 2007 11:57:28 GMT -5
Cro Cop is fighting someone named Gonzaga. I believe the winner of the fight gets a title shot against Courture. The card takes place in England, which is kind of cool since one of the fighters, Michael Bisbing, won the Ultimate Fighter, and is British. I bet the pop he gets is going to be tremendous.
Gonzaga is 3-0 in the UFC, with 3 KOs/taps. It's strange, but in MMA that's enough to get you into title contention.
Cro Cop's UFC debut was apparently a 1st round KO of some unbeaten guy.
I guess a big reason it's free is that some of the gigantic names are not on the card.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 20, 2007 11:59:55 GMT -5
Yeah he got a KO in his debut but it wasn't anything spectacular you'll see during and end of the year montage(montage). I think if Cro Cop fights Couture, Cro Cop is going to kick the shit out of him.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 20, 2007 12:04:54 GMT -5
I would think Couture would be an underdog in any fight at this stage. He was retired, and came OUT of retirement. I can't believe he won the title. The man is a legend in the UFC, but he's also 43 years old. Cro Cop is 32. It doesn't make sense to think Courture will hold that belt for too long.
It's an interesting sport where you don't need that many fights to get a title shot, and you can have a record of 12-5 and be a legend/HOFer.
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Post by Chris on Apr 20, 2007 12:37:24 GMT -5
I hope I'm not speedbumping, but...
Have you guys heard that HBO just signed a contract to carry UFC. And Lampley and Merchant are NOT in consideration for the yet to be chosen commentators.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 20, 2007 14:06:19 GMT -5
Good, keep those dopes on boxing. I love Rogan and Mike Goldberg. That's awesome it will be on HBO, that's perfect for using guys on UF to have some fights on HBO then getting them big enough to put them in marquee matches on PPV.
As for the win/oss record stuff,it's hard to compile a lot of fights when an average guy fights a handful of times in a That said, if a guy has a 3-0 record but is taking out guys left and right, throw him in the title hunt.
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Post by grover on Apr 20, 2007 14:28:01 GMT -5
They threw Courture in to fight Tim Silvia because Silvia was to UFC what you think Umaga is to the WWE. He's is BORING!!!!!
Now Crocop/Courture will be an amazing fight.
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Post by Chris on Apr 20, 2007 14:47:01 GMT -5
Yeah, HBO made it a point to say that they will absolutely use people familiar with the sport as their commentators.
I guess it was worth mentioning since, upon hearing the news, many people assumed they would use Lampley and company.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 20, 2007 14:48:06 GMT -5
There's a big difference between Sylvia and Umaga--Sylvia was a legit champ and the bouts aren't scripted. If WWE were real, I highly doubt Umaga would be one of the top guys.
Boring or not, Sylvia kicked a lot of ass.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 20, 2007 14:49:08 GMT -5
Exactly, I'm not crazy about Silvia, he's big and strong but if he's on the mat he's done. And I notcied he drops his guard when he throws a overhand right, Cro Cop would kick his fucking jaw off.
Couture and Cro cop wold be awesome, 43 or not, Couture is still quicker than most guys. I may be wrong but I see Couture having a real tough time getting Cro Cop on the mat, cause as long as he's standing he's too fucking dangerous. I really hope Cro Cop wins and wins big tomorrow cause I'd love to see Cro Cop/Couture.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 20, 2007 14:50:35 GMT -5
I have to make sure I DVR this thing.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 20, 2007 15:31:55 GMT -5
Btw, speaking of speedbumps, this is totally off topic but everytime you post balls, I have to look at the Spidey pic next to your name, I loved watching those cartoons when I was little. I saw they have a boxset of some of those shows on DVD I'm going to have to get soon.
now back to the manly ass-kicking thread.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 20, 2007 21:03:56 GMT -5
I don't know if Spiderfriends is out on DVD. They were airing on Family Channel awhile back. The theme was in my head 2 days ago, which is why I changed the picture.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 21, 2007 10:07:29 GMT -5
I think they released a DVD that has a few episodes on there, like a variety DVD. It was next to one of the old Turtle cartoons so I assume it was the older cartoon.
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