$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Sept 6, 2006 21:12:52 GMT -5
Our buddies over at the PWTorch have sprung up a sister website, covering all forms of MMA. Unlike the Torch site, which has a lot of "subscriber only" features, this one is open to anyone who wants to look. www.mmatorch.comfrom the "mission statement..." In short, it will feature a format of coverage of MMA similar to the Torch's, in that we'll cover big stories, PPV events, TV shows, and live events, plus we'll publish editorials, history pieces, DVD reviews, Reader Reax after MMA TV shows and PPVs, flashbacks to Torch MMA articles from the past 12 years, and more. We are always looking for additional volunteers to contribute to the new MMATorch.com.I am not the biggest MMA fan, but I poked around a bit, and I think you guys who are into this Ultimate Fighting Stuff willl like this site. |
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Sept 7, 2006 8:58:42 GMT -5
As far as I know, the only fans of UFC are me and Tone. I'm a huge fan of the reality show, The Ultimate Fighter.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Sept 7, 2006 9:03:07 GMT -5
I know there are others, but they may not be on this board just yet. Either way, if you have any interest at all, you'll want to save that site, and pass it around to those who may be into it.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Sept 7, 2006 9:09:31 GMT -5
That's cool. The real extent of my interest is that show. It's a very good way to get to know the sport. The only real problem, and I think it has a lot of UFC guys pissed, is that most of the fame in the UFC comes from that show. The people on that show are up and comers, not main UFC stars.
I've read comments from main UFC guys about how they could be walking with one of the guys on the show, and that guy would be recognized, but not the star.
It would be like Jose Tabata walking with Derek Jeter, and everyone stopping to talk to Tabata. Kind of funny if you think about it.
This season they are going a different route and taking has beens/people who never made it, and giving them a new shot.
The only famous people from the UFC that get more known on the show are fighters who served as coaches for the younger guys.
Last season, Ken Shamrock was a coach. Surprisingly, he wasn't that good of a coach.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Sept 7, 2006 9:18:45 GMT -5
Last season, Ken Shamrock was a coach. Surprisingly, he wasn't that good of a coach
Why is that surprising? Just cause you are good at what you do does not mean you can get it across to others. Look at baseball, for example. Some of the best coaches/managers are .220 hitting catchers while a guy like Ted Williams sucked as a skipper, and some of the best pitching coaches only had a cup of coffee in the majors.
Shamrock may simply have terrible people, or organizational skills.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Sept 7, 2006 9:27:22 GMT -5
I know that very well. I bring that up all the time. But what I found surprising was that Shamrock DOES teach. He HAS trained people before. Given that, plus his experience, I figured he would have been a GREAT coach.
He wasn't. In my opinion, I don't think he really gave a crap about the coaching part.
Shamrock HATED the other coach. The two had a history. While I'm not a UFC expert, in my limited time watching, I hadn't seen two people hate each other like Shamrock and his counterpart, a guy named Tito Ortiz.
Ortiz of course is 10 years younger than Shamrock. Shamrock was a pioneer in the sport, and Ortiz disrespected him. Shamrock of course snapped and they had a fight, which Ortiz won.
At the end of the season, on PPV, Shamrock and Ortiz were to fight again, and throughout the season, you got a sense of that legitimate hate.
I couldn't see how Shamrock would win that fight given age, and the fact that Ortiz did a good job kicking Shamrock's ass the first time.
The reality show was a competition among the coaches too. Both coaches drafted a team from the people in the show. Ortiz simply outsmarted Shamrock at every turn. He outpicked him, and then he simply worked his team harder and prepared them better. I didn't expect Ortiz to be that good of a coach.
I actually became a fan of Ortiz' by the end of the show.
When Shamrock and Ortiz fought, Ortiz won by a fight stoppage in under 2 minutes in the first round. The crowd was PISSED.
Shamrock felt that the fight shouldn't have been stopped, and based on other UFC fights, I think he had a point. Not that Shamrock didn't get saved further damage, but he was right.
The cool part is that they decided to "do right" by the fans, and have Ortiz-Shamrock III, which will NOT be on PPV, but live on Spike TV on October 10. So if you want to see Shamrock take a beating, tune in.
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Post by cactusjames on Sept 7, 2006 12:12:34 GMT -5
UFC rules. I don't watch as much as I like to, but occasionally I'll flip to Spike either to watch MXC or any of the UFC shows. I can never remember the day they're on to watch.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Sept 7, 2006 12:46:10 GMT -5
Thursdays@10pm. If you have DVR, set it. That's how I remember.
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Post by cactusjames on Sept 7, 2006 17:20:27 GMT -5
That's perfect since I don't watch anything on thursdays. Is it just The Ultimate Fighters or do they have an episdoe of UFC thrwn in there?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Sept 7, 2006 17:22:38 GMT -5
Hey, James, TNA is also on Thursdays. Why are you not at least checking it out? It comes on at 11, after UFC.
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Post by cactusjames on Sept 7, 2006 17:25:56 GMT -5
TNA lost me, I can't get into it. For awhile I really liked the 5 sided ring. Now it just doesn't make sense. Besides a few guys who I like I could really care less about the roster either. This is the whole ketlle, pot black thing but I can't stand Jarrett because of the shit HHH used to get shit for.Give me WWE, ECW and some real fights. A lot of people remember I was a big E and C fan but Christian as champ just didn't work. I tihkn I watched once when he was champ.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 12, 2006 9:10:15 GMT -5
So a few weeks ago, there was a big PPV and Ken Shamrock fought Tito Ortiz. They were the coaches of the third edition of the reality show. Ortiz kicked the shit out of Shamrock in under 2 minutes. But a lot of people thought the fight was stopped too soon. Maybe it was, but it's not like it wouldn't have lasted much more than 15 seconds anyway. Ortiz was pounding on him.
I guess there was a lot of hype for the fight because the two guys hated each other legitimately, and having it end so quickly, especially on a PPV, was disappointing.
To their credit, UFC responded very well. They decided that within a month or so, they would put Shamrock and Ortiz in the ring again, but this time it would be on free TV.
They also put a few other guys on the card so it would be a 2 hour show. All the fights had at least one fighter from the previous edition of the reality show on it.
What was interesting was that one of the reality fighters got beaten by a guy no one heard of. That was actually cool to see since he tapped. Usually they put them in with guys that end up being stepping stones.
Cool stuff.
Shamrock was in much better shape for the main event. Instead of losing in 2 minutes, he lost in 3.
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Post by grover on Oct 12, 2006 9:31:24 GMT -5
Shamrock is old and washed up. The steroids are taking it's toll after so long.
Thanks for this site!! Now I get to check up on UFC events as well as Pride FC tournament results.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 12, 2006 9:34:50 GMT -5
Age has affected him mostly. Tito Ortiz was bigger, had a longer reach, and was 11 years younger. Tito is at the top of his game. Shamrock is 42. While I don't think age is AS big an issue in MMA, it matters when you hit your 40s.
Recently, Royce Gracie came out of retirement to fight the champ in that division, and he got crushed. Gracie was a UFC legend. Bad call.
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Post by grover on Oct 12, 2006 10:48:52 GMT -5
Gracie will still destroy most of the fighters in the weight class despite his age. But yeah, age is the main culprit with Shamrock.
They get props, sure, but Gracies are bums. They always fought a certian way, a way that benefitted them, and if they didn't get they they would refuse to fight. Personally, I'm glad he got beat BAD.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 12, 2006 10:50:48 GMT -5
I watched a little the other night. I have a passing interest. I actually end up reading more about it than watching it, from Meltzer's newsletter and all the coverage around the Torch. Its ok, but I won't offer the commitment it would take for me to hop on board. Give me my fake wrestling instead.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 12, 2006 11:11:33 GMT -5
Grover--did you see that fight? Matt Hughes destroyed him. I think you're right about how they refuse to fight if they don't like the rules. I wonder how Gracie would do against Hughes under the original UFC rules, which were basically no rules except you couldn't gouge the eyes and couldn't fish hook the mouth.
I still think Hughes would destroy him.
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Post by grover on Oct 12, 2006 11:41:37 GMT -5
I don't.
He would have worn his gi(sp?) which would have made it hard for Hughes to get out of a hold he has.
Aslo, those rules just let nothing happen and time go on. The Gracies are willing to sit and let time pass unitl they get the guy to open up. He would have dragged it out unitl Hughes lost his cool, and snuck in some malarky hold. Those old UFCs were trash, but great comedy.
Now, if nothing goes on, get up and start over. Same thing in Pride. They stop and let you up, or if it's too close to the ropes they move you. The Gracie family has had trouble in Pride with some of the fighters there.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 12, 2006 12:11:00 GMT -5
Did you see the fight? Hughes owned him. I don't know if just wearing the gi would have made a difference. If anything, I think it would make it easier to hold on to because sweat doesn't make him more slippery.
I really don't think Hughes would have lost his cool. Hughes got Gracie in a sick armbar, and I think there came a point where Hughes just wailed on him. Didn't last very long. I don't see that as any different. Remember, this fight lasted only about 2 minutes. There wasn't any time for mega patience. Gracie tried that. Didn't work. Hughes had his number.
I can't say it would have been different when UFC first started, but I think today's UFC fighters are also more well rounded. Gracie was a pioneer and showed how fighting on the ground is brilliant, but people learned.
I never heard of Pride.
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Post by grover on Oct 12, 2006 13:17:41 GMT -5
I saw it. I was loving it. Hughes did get him reallllll good, but in that sprt a quick slip and you lose. I did not count Gracie out unitl he lost. I've seen it too many times.
And yes, the fighters are more well rounded. It's not even close actually, the gap of talent between now and back then is MLB to Beer League Softball.
You should see the fueds the Gracies get tino over in Pride. Those are funny. One Japanese guy beat about 2 or 3 memebers of the Grcie family. He's their scourge.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 12, 2006 13:22:28 GMT -5
I've never even heard of Pride. Is that a UFC competitor? Is it only PPV?
I do miss some things about early UFC--like no weight classes and no rules. Seeing a 600 pound guy fight a 200 pound guy was hilarious.
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Post by sancho231 on Oct 12, 2006 13:35:18 GMT -5
Pride IS like UFC in japan but in a ring not that wacky octagon.one of the few Pride FCs i saw was Don Frye Vs Takayama. quite possibly the most brutal shit i ve ever seen. these guys jut punched eachothe in the face for 5 mins. check it out it might still be on youtube.
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Post by grover on Oct 12, 2006 13:38:16 GMT -5
Yeah, Pride FC is the Japanese UFC. They fight more in a boxing ring, and have different rules that sometimes change from match to match.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 12, 2006 13:53:02 GMT -5
I'll try to look into that. I seem to like MMA better than boxing. I wonder how different it would be without the octagon and fence. What would it be like if they fought in a similar fashion to the movie Bloodsport, where one way to win would be to throw your opponent out of the ring area. Would it be more like sumo in that case?
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 12, 2006 16:04:37 GMT -5
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Post by grover on Oct 12, 2006 16:16:29 GMT -5
Don Frye hit the juice HARD. He has the Rick Rude fat face now.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 17, 2007 8:05:25 GMT -5
UFC 69 had a fairly major upset, as Matt Serra, from Long Island, defeated George St. Pierre to become the welterweight champion. Serra was on the last run of Ultimate Fighter. That group of contenders were actually UFC hasbeens getting a second shot.
Serra won that, and the prize was a title shot. Serra got his, and made the most of it, beating the guy who beat Matt Hughes. It was considered a huge upset.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 17, 2007 9:50:50 GMT -5
It was the upset factor alone that made that fight so good, but it was def something. Coture beating Sylvia was amazing from about a month ago.
I'm looking foward to seeing Mirko "Cro Cop" gt his first shot, he's a fucking animal.
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Post by MSBNYY on Apr 17, 2007 10:20:01 GMT -5
I didn't even realize Couture won that fight. Hell of an upset based on age alone. I thought Couture usually fought at light heavyweight. Interesting sport because I don't think the coolest fighters are the heavyweights. The welterweight class is the fun one.
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Post by cactusjames on Apr 17, 2007 11:07:08 GMT -5
Well you're likely to see more knockouts or ref stoppages as opposed to more tap outs in the lighter divisions. There's still a good mix in all weightclasses, but I like the fact one shot changes a fight. In boxing, a fighter can recover, saved by the bell etc, you make one mistake a fight is over. And with the heavyweights, they create the best knockout situations. In lower divisions you see more wrestlers and grapplers, and sometimes those fights can drag at time.
With all the pride guys coming in now, I'd expect more knockouts.
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