MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Sept 11, 2006 14:09:19 GMT -5
Maybe they can use that roster spot to pick up Ponson.
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Post by ronmossad on Sept 14, 2006 12:59:04 GMT -5
So here's the deal: Derek Jeter is the MVP. The numbers are all in order, right down to categories such as hitting with runners in scoring position and late-inning pressure averages. Batting second most of the time, he will knock in over a hundred, and he has already scored 100 runs for the 10th time in 11 full seasons. There is great debate about just how good a fielder he is among the Baseball Prospectus crowd, but you'd take him.
But he deserves the award for reasons that transcend the numbers. Remember what you read a few minutes ago? The ``winning ballplayer"? The one whose ``combined offensive and defensive ability is not always indicated by a system of records"? Jeter is the guy they were thinking about. In a season of great Yankees turmoil, he was the absolute rock, the absolute leader, the absolute irreplaceable man. He was, in short, the most worthy player in the American League.
It would be a mockery to anoint anyone else. I love ya, Papi, but Derek Jeter is the American League MVP.
--Bob Ryan, Boston GlobeSource: www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/09/14/choice_is_clear_jeter/?page=2
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Post by joetee316 on Sept 17, 2006 11:46:42 GMT -5
Funny how the Red Sox now have a 1 game lead over Toronto.
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Post by Chris on Sept 19, 2006 20:50:24 GMT -5
What's funny is how utterly meaningless this last 4 game series with the Sox was
Red Sox fans want to say that they at least won a moral victory and some bragging rights.....ummmmm.......ehhh.....ok.....you having bragging rights.....you're Triple A squad beat our Triple A squad 3 out of 4 in the Bronx. File that under meaningless successes.
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Post by MPNYC51 on Sept 21, 2006 10:50:35 GMT -5
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Post by 9 on Oct 2, 2006 14:36:30 GMT -5
Yup ... here's the answer:
BOSTON -- The Boston Red Sox announced Monday that hitting coach Ron Jackson and pitching coach Dave Wallace will not be back with the team next season.
Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein and manager Terry Francona made the announcements after completing individual meetings with the coaching staff.
Jackson spent four years as the team's hitting coach. In each of Jackson's first three seasons, the Red Sox led the majors in runs, team batting, doubles and on-base percentage.
However, Boston was 10th in runs and 16th in batting this season en route to an 86-76 record and a third-place finish in the American League East. The Red Sox had finished second in each of the previous eight seasons.
Wallace, who missed the beginning of this season with an illness, has been the club's regular pitching coach since 2004. Boston ranked 11th in the AL and 26th in the majors with a 4.83 team ERA this season.
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Post by Chris on Oct 10, 2006 13:30:17 GMT -5
I love the fact that a die-hard Red Sox fan is still reading and participating in not ONE, but TWO Yankees message boards?
I love the fact that Red Sox fans are STILL sweating the Yankees even though the Yankees have been bounced out of the playoffs.
Do you think any concerned Yankee fan gives two shits about what the Red Sox are doing right now?
I can't wait to see the train wreck that will be Jonathan Papelbon as a starting pitcher. You must be brimming with confidence, Mac, to know that the Red Sox are trying to spin your 26 year-old phenom's physical fragility as a need to fill a spot in the starting rotation.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 10, 2006 13:38:50 GMT -5
Uh, not for nothing, but Papelbon was groomed as a starting pitcher. He closed out of necessity and did a Hell of a job. He is worth more as a starter. Yankee fans should not laugh at this, as he may be a thorn in our side for a long time to come.
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Post by grover on Oct 10, 2006 13:42:24 GMT -5
If that happens, and Lester recovers, then they may have quite the rotation.
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Post by Chris on Oct 10, 2006 13:56:37 GMT -5
I know he was groomed as a starting pitcher, HOWEVER, the main reason he is going back to being a starting pitcher, despite the phenomenal job he did as a closer, is because the chink in his armor was exposed due to his closing duties - he's a physical breakdown waiting to happen.
I think that one of two things will probably happen...or could have happened. He could have continued closing and the physical breakdown could have manifested itself in the way of a severe injury. They got lucky this year that the only real setback they suffered was a decline in his productivity. OR, he'll become a starter, and prove to be much more hittable with greater exposure to Major League hitters - kind of a Mariano Rivera situation in reverse.
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Post by grover on Oct 10, 2006 14:08:48 GMT -5
Well, he's a young pitcher and he got gassed. Just like how the tigers young staff got gassed, and Liriano got gassed.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 10, 2006 14:11:34 GMT -5
I find it funny that a guy that has a lot of his hopes resting on the fragile health of Phillip Hughes, for one, is laughing at the durabilty of another young pitcher in the division.
There is nothing wrong with Papelbon that should carry into next year. Next topic please.
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Post by Chris on Oct 10, 2006 14:15:32 GMT -5
I never banked on Hughes. I don't know where you got that from. I said it would be "nice" to have another young homegrown guy in the starting rotation. But I qualified that statement with my admission that I don't know as much as I should about Hughes - whether or not he's major league ready.
I watched the Red Sox Report on NESN this past weekend and even on that show, they admitted as much as I've said here about Papelbon's fragility and the reasons for moving him into the starting rotation.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 10, 2006 14:19:23 GMT -5
Fragility is not the reason. There was talk of him moving into the starting rotation 3 months into the season. Its what he wanted all along. If Foulke could have come back with any sort of marbles about him, it may have happened. What is so odd about a kid that is used to being on a starting schedule/routine wearing out by going into a totally different throwing program?
Laugh now, but if Papelbon becomes even two-thirds of the starting ace he was projected as as recently as LAST SPRING, he is going to be a total thorn in the Yankees side. If you are looking to lob bombs at the Red Sox, you would be better off starting just about anywhere other than Papelbon.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2006 6:57:36 GMT -5
So Mac--now that the Red Sox bid $51.1 million to get Matsuzaka, are you going to stop the hypocritical payroll bashing? The Yanks signed Damon for $52 million and get him for 4 years. That $51.1 million may not count toward luxury tax, but it shows how much money they have and that any claim of poverty is malarky.
$51.1 million and that's just to talk to him. They haven't even signed him yet.
If the guy pitches well, then it may be money well spent--even if he is going to cost the Red Sox more than ARod's $25 million per year. But let's see if you can stop whining about payroll.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 15, 2006 8:26:38 GMT -5
I am disgusted by this move. I am still holding out "hope" that they don't end up throwing another 50 million at this clown for like 4 years. $100 million for 4 years? No fucking thank you. If he becomes a $25+ million pitcher, I'll never mention payroll again.
I still wonder if they did it to block other teams.
p.s. Your payroll would still be MUCH higher.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2006 8:37:23 GMT -5
Our payroll, at least at this moment, is going to drop. There aren't any super duper stars out there worth signing long term. The closest is Zito, and I don't think they're interested at his price and long term. Johnson is out of here after this year. Giambi the year after. Mussina is $7 million cheaper.
Sheffield--$13 million Wright--$3 million
Not including luxury tax, while you guys have pissed $51.1 million just to talk to a guy who likely will only want a 3 year deal, the Yanks have saved $23 million, which is about $31.05 million when factoring in a 35 percent luxury tax. That's an $82 million swing, if you consider the $51.1 million payment all for this year. And that doesn't include the eventual salary for Matsuzaka.
Obviously, the Yanks aren't done, but as of today, it's not that big of a gap anymore.
Scouting says he will do well. But what if he doesn't? The guy may not make more than ARod, but he will cost the team more than ARod because of that $51.1 million.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 15, 2006 9:47:28 GMT -5
i]I still wonder if they did it to block other teams.[/i]
Uh, yeah....even the NY papers are admitting as such. Both the Yankees and Mets put in "substantial bids" - in both cases estimated to be "over 40 million."
The Red Sox claim they feel in time they can make up a lot of their bidding money by marketing someone who is most likely going to end up being "a Japanese star."
I cant say I disagree. I dont think 40 million would have locked up the right to bid for this. The Sox, rightfully so, did not want him to fall into the Yankees hands. I am surprised Mac is bitching about it. The Yankees set the bar for this sort of thing, with thier insane displays of throwing money around recently.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2006 9:56:01 GMT -5
They could take $25 million of that money and overbid for him as a free agent next year, and STILL have that marketability.
Make up some of that money? Remember, that $51.1 million only gets them the right to talk to Boras. Boras will likely push for a 3 year deal, likely at $15 million. That's over $30 million a year for a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in the majors.
What if he bombs?
They had better sell a LOT of t-shirts.
And the Yanks have NEVER done anything on this level. EVER.
Other teams do stupid stuff like this. But the Yanks don't set the bar.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 15, 2006 10:06:01 GMT -5
They could take $25 million of that money and overbid for him as a free agent next year, and STILL have that marketability.
Hey, dummy, who says he would be a free agent next year? If the Sox dont bid like they did, and the Yankees win the bid, you dont think the Yankees would have locked him down for 3 or more years?
I really dont think you guys get it, regarding this guy, and his talent. Forget projections, look at his STUFF. Look at what he throws. There is no way a guy who throws what he does fails. Sorry, but Yankee fans can spin this any way they like - the Sox landed a dandy here.
And the Yankees HAVE done this sort of thing, on a smaller scale of money. So many free agent busts, money thrown at guys like Drew Henson and Hideki Irabu, the list goes on and on.
Get over it.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2006 10:13:36 GMT -5
Hey dummy--if the Sox don't sign him, he IS a free agent next year. But they have made a bad faith bid and fuck up their reputation in Japan. This would be exactly the situation that Laura mentioned with Toronto.
Even if this guy outpitches Santana, he's costing the team DOUBLE what he should be making. What the Red Sox are doing here is setting the stage for the next big salary hike.
Then you people will cry like girls when the Yanks sign someone.
The Sox spent more on the posting for this guy than Irabu and Henson combined. The key is the smaller scale of money. Stupid signings happen. See Carl Pavano. But the Yanks have not set the bar on something since Dave Winfield after the 1980 season.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 15, 2006 10:33:17 GMT -5
I am bitching about this because it's a Yankee move to do this type of shit. I figure he'll want a 3/45 deal, plus the $51 million. That's $32 million a year for him. I don't care if a player hit like Babe Ruth & pitched like Cy Young - he's not worth $32 million a season. That's $1 million a fucking start.
MSB forgets that the Yankees set the market on middle of the road starting pitching (Wright, Pavano, etc), middle relief (Gordon, Farnsworth, etc) & DH's (Giambi).
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2006 10:53:59 GMT -5
Actually, the Yankees did NOT set the market on middle of the road pitching. Other teams did. Those contracts were signed after Kris Benson got $21 million over 3 years from the Mets.
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Post by Chris on Nov 15, 2006 14:44:43 GMT -5
I think a 3 year/ 45 million deal is too high of an estimate. Everything I'm hearing points to just over 10 million per year.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 15, 2006 14:55:44 GMT -5
I've heard that he will likely get Oswalt level money, but even at $30 million over 3 years, that's $27 million a year for the guy.
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Post by kingdzbws on Nov 17, 2006 11:40:31 GMT -5
I understand that should Matsu...whatever NOT come to an agreement with the Sux, then he has to go back to Japan for 1 year and the Sux get their 51million back.
If this is the case, is it possible, given that they overbid the next team by millions, that perhaps they were simply using a tactic to keep him from the Yanks,, and if they fail to sign him, no harm no foul and no American club gets him?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 17, 2006 12:32:05 GMT -5
No, thats not possible. For the 100th time, that is negotiating in bad faith. Number two, next year he could come back to anyone he wants to sign with. So the Yankees, per se, would grab him then. Its not worth the aggravation to keep him out of the league for one year.
The Red Sox put in the bid with the intentions of trying to get him signed.
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Post by kingdzbws on Nov 17, 2006 12:39:20 GMT -5
Sorry I didn't read the whole thread through, a Mutt fan brought this up to me this morning and I didn't have definative answer for him. I don't know of the rules and regs for this, so I'm just asking. Now is there a 'bad faith' clause, or is it an unwritten understanding?
Would thsis guy be able to sign with whomever he chososes next year? Would there be another bidding session for him rhen.
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Post by kingdzbws on Nov 17, 2006 12:40:16 GMT -5
Sorry I didn't read the whole thread through, a Mutt fan brought this up to me this morning and I didn't have definative answer for him. I don't know of the rules and regs for this, so I'm just asking. Now is there a 'bad faith' clause, or is it an unwritten understanding? Would this guy be able to sign with whomever he chooses next year? Would there be another bidding session for him then.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 17, 2006 12:43:51 GMT -5
Next year he would be a free agent and can sign with whomever he wants.
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