MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2006 12:48:41 GMT -5
I've heard Boston may offer $9 million a year for 4-5 years. It would be hard for anyone to argue bad faith with that kind of an offer, and there may be a lot of pressure on him to take it.
He still hasn't thrown a pitch in the majors, and Santana is making about $10 million.
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Post by Chris on Nov 27, 2006 15:23:13 GMT -5
I'm hearing that Bonds' days as a Giant may be over and Manny Ramirez' name is being tossed around as a popular replacement.
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Post by kingdzbws on Nov 27, 2006 15:29:59 GMT -5
Accoriding to Robert Beck/SI: "The Red Sox' initial proposal for Daisuke Matsuzaka was roughly half of what his agent proposed, which may cause issues."
Half is a long gap to close....I think they'll do it, but Boras will get his pound of flesh...
M
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 27, 2006 15:39:30 GMT -5
I've heard 6 years at $7-$8 million per.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 27, 2006 15:41:49 GMT -5
They'll get the deal done. All sides want a deal to get done. In fact, some of the money paid as the bid could get swung over towards his contract. Thats how badly his hosting team would like to collect the rest of it. This is not an unheard of thing, in fact, the Mariners got some of their bid money back during the Ichiro negotiations.
Honestly, from my sources I am reading that there is no way this deal does not get done.
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Post by kingdzbws on Nov 27, 2006 15:41:50 GMT -5
Asking or offering?
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 28, 2006 14:24:29 GMT -5
If that faggot Theo is offering JD pussy Drew 6/$75 I am going to be fucking pissed. I can't stand that pussy Drew. The guy has played ONE full season & we're giving him a 6 year deal?
WTF is going on?
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Post by 9 on Nov 28, 2006 14:25:51 GMT -5
As I said on the other board, I agree with you on this one. I've never liked Drew.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 28, 2006 14:31:16 GMT -5
Is that a serious offer? That's a bonehead move. It's like this winter will be considered the year of the stupid contract.
If Drew is worth $12.5 million per year, then how can they seriously argue that Matsuzaka isn't?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 28, 2006 15:00:47 GMT -5
Drew defenders will point to his excellent OBP and slugging percentages. Of course, he cant stay healthy. But if he did, he could put up some fierce numbers. I am past the point of dissecting every glob of money tossed around. When the money is so out of control on all accounts, its pointless to keep whining about it. I am looking at this on the baseball side.
That said, 6 years for an injury waiting to happen annually is a move I would not make. But, again, if Drew could stay healthy, he will be haunting we Yankee fans like a wraith with malice on the mind.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 28, 2006 15:01:47 GMT -5
If Adam fucking Eaton is wroth $8 million, this gook is worth $20 million. End of story. They have no leverage other than the gay ass system that's setup for this process.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 28, 2006 15:17:28 GMT -5
There is nothing about JD Drew that strikes fear in me. Hell, Giambi has a high OBP, and no one fears him.
Drew is now 30 years old, and hasn't done shit throughout his career except cause strife and anxiety for his managers. The man has hit over 150 hits just ONCE in his career. 150. Not 200.
I wonder how other, shit pitchers, signing decent deals will affect the Matsuzaka negotiation.
He's still a 26 year old professional that projects very well in the majors. But how can the Sox seriously expect to get him for less than what Ted Lilly is going to get? And more important, the YEARS. The Sox want 6 years. I don't blame them. But Boras wants 3 with free agency. I don't blame HIM.
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Post by Chris on Nov 28, 2006 15:22:26 GMT -5
This is just an observation...but have you ever noticed how black ballplayers who are "mouthy" get a rep...like Sheffield, Milton Bradley, etc....but white ballplayers who exhibit the same characteristics aren't as quick to be labeled as such?
I think J.D. Drew is every bit the clubhouse cancer, spoiled malcontent that Milton Bradley and Gary Sheffield are.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 28, 2006 15:24:58 GMT -5
I wonder if it's because he's white.
I think Drew is garbage. I wouldn't want him.
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Post by Chris on Nov 28, 2006 15:26:49 GMT -5
I think it is because he's white....he's never proven to be a pleasure for his teammates, managers, GMs....and yeah, he's got a slight rep as being a surly, me-first kinda guy....but nowhere near the extent that Sheffield has.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 28, 2006 15:58:14 GMT -5
Thats because he has never spouted off to the extent Sheff has. Can you dredge up even one instance where he has said the kind of crap Sheff has? The rep Drew has is more as being aloof. And if you dont think he has a BAD rep, you are reading the wrong sources. Drew is written about as one of the pariahs of the game...but in a different way than the surly guys like Bradley and Sheff.
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Post by Chris on Nov 28, 2006 16:06:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I know he has a bad rep....and I see your point about him not being as demonstrative as Sheff or Bradley...but don't Sheff and Bradley also come with a sense of fiesty passion, as opposed to Drew? I guess my point is that I feel that he is every bit as disruptive as either Sheff or Bradley, yet seems to fly a bit under the radar when stacked up against the puclicity that the other two get.
Actually, come to think of it...I think that Jeff Kent is a better example of my point. And yes, I agree that Kent isn't winning any popularity contests, but again, in comparison to Sheff or Bradley his antics come off as small potatoes.
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Post by 9 on Nov 28, 2006 16:14:49 GMT -5
LOL @ "If Adam fucking Eaton is wroth $8 million, this gook is worth $20 million."
This year's market is out of control.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 28, 2006 16:23:07 GMT -5
Cho, all those guys get their negative press. Kent too. Even casual fans are aware that Kent is a total a-hole, cause that is what the press has told them. Difference is Kent does not have a litany of suspensions like Bradley does and he does not go to the press with outlandish remarks all the time like Sheff does. But to say he skates free is silly. Kent gets terrible press, just google his name. You can even find out how he is one of baseballs known racists. None of this is kept under the hat.
Bradley and Sheff just have worse records of showing their malignancy. Kent is just a surly disposition.
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Post by Chris on Dec 7, 2006 17:53:03 GMT -5
Just heard something interesting - if the Red Sox sign Matsuzaka to AT LEAST while Gil Meche got, coupled with the negotiating fee they're looking at committing over 20 million per year to this guy.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 7, 2006 18:08:08 GMT -5
And if he pushes them to another World Title, you can argue he is worth every cent. Also, the money they would get in return from becoming an international attraction is worth something as well. The Yankees and Mariners are certainly happy with the doors having Irabu and Hideki Matsui around, believe you me.
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Post by Chris on Dec 14, 2006 12:48:11 GMT -5
I just heard Bobby Valentine singing the praises and making predictions on the effectiveness of the new Japanese Red Sox pitcher.
Considering Bobby Valentine's track record of completely over-hyping Japanese players, I'm encouraged.
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Post by 9 on Dec 14, 2006 12:53:29 GMT -5
I'm doubly encouraged by the fact that Valentine didn't heap praise on our potential Japanese addition, Kei Igawa.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 14, 2006 13:11:44 GMT -5
Cho, have you bothered to poke around or read ANYTHING that is out there on this guy? This guy is the real deal. Its not PROJECTIONS that say this, its STUFF. What he throws is absolutely sick. You can even go to YouTube and watch some of his pitches fluttering like wiffle ball pitches. He commands FIVE pitches. He has already proven himself against a lot of major league stars in International play.
I'm not going to go over all this again - you can look back in this very thread for more details on him. Keep deluding yourself.....his ending up on the Yankees is disastrous for the rest of us.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 14, 2006 13:12:50 GMT -5
Not if he takes a line drive to the face, off the bat of Matsui.
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Post by Chris on Dec 14, 2006 14:09:01 GMT -5
Tom, I'm sorry but Japanese stats just don't translate to MLB. I'm not predicting that this guy is going to be a bust because I simply have NO CLUE, but at the same time you can't predict that he's going to be a phenom with any more accuracy.
Why is everyone so quick to disregard Igawa's low Japanese ERA, but they're so quick to assume Matsuzaka's Japanese stats will hold up here. It's a crap shoot with Japanese players - always has been always will be. It was a crap shoot with Irabu, Matsui, Matsui part II with the Mets, Suzuki, and it will be a crap shoot with Igawa and Matsuzaka....some of them pan out, some don't. I'm not saying that I know Matsuzaka will fail in the majors, but I'm hopeful, and I have as much reason to be hopeful of his failure that you have reason to predict his success.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 14, 2006 14:26:49 GMT -5
I don't think he's looking at stats, but rather scouting reports. Theoretically, these guys can give a good idea by speed, motion, and movement, how well a pitcher would do. Just like they analyze hitters based on build, bat speed, and swing mechanics.
That's why a guy like Matsui can be considered to translate well here in advance, but a guy like Kaz Matsui, who put up numbers that aren't that different, or a guy like Tuffy Rhodes, who hit 50 HR over there, doesn't.
The SCOUTS are touting Matsuzaka and trashing Igawaaaaa.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 14, 2006 14:37:05 GMT -5
Why is everyone so quick to disregard Igawa's low Japanese ERA, but they're so quick to assume Matsuzaka's Japanese stats will hold up here
Hey, dummy! Why are you being such a stubborn blockhead on this! It has nothing to do with ERA or performance in Japan. It has to do with STUFF!
The reason this guy is to be feared is NOT his 108-60 mark in Japan. Its not even the fact that his K/BB ratio is an astonishing 535-125 in the last 3 years, which shows impeccable command.
Let me spell it out for you so you can attempt to understand. THIS is why you should worry about this guy.
Throws BOTH a 2-seam and 4-seam fastball, touching 97 with both, and usually in the low 90s. Also throws a curveball, slider, changeup, and splitter. All five pitches are considered plus in scouting circles, with 3 of them "plus plus." The number of pitchers in the majors who throw even ONE plus-plus pitch can be counted on your hands.
He thrives under what pressure he has been under thus far. In 2 Olympics he posted a 2.30 ERA and 45 K's in 43 innings. He pitched a 5-hitter against a team of major league all-stars as far back as 2004, and this year led Japan to the World Baseball Classic, winning MVP honors and all 3 of his starts.
The Yankees version of a Japanese pitcher, quite simply, does not have the STUFF! You can discount the accolades I posted above, but you can not ignore THE STUFF! His pitches will do the same thing here they did over there, believe me.
I also found it funny you even mentioned Ichiro's name as any kind of example of anything. Actually, he is a good barometer of what I am trying to explain to you guys who do not have the same sources I seek out. Ichiro came out here with scouts calling him a future batting champion. They nailed that one. These same scouts are calling this guy one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in the majors, and he has not even pulled on a jersey yet. This guy is one of the few gamebreakers around, and would have led the free agent class with no-contest if he was available this year.
This is NOT Hideki Irabu. Again, I have reports on Irabu dating back a decade. Back then Baseball America chided the Yankees for overselling him. Irabu was more a novelty back then than a savior. He had nowhere near the stuff this guy does, nor the polish, command, or track record. The fact you guys keep bringing up his name is asinine. Totally different arsenels.
If you care to not listen to me, google this guys name and just read around. Read the tales, and the stories, and read about HIS STUFF. Not what HE DID, but what HE THROWS.
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 14, 2006 14:40:35 GMT -5
According to most accounts, the Boss gave this guy THE STUFF too:
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Post by 9 on Dec 14, 2006 14:48:08 GMT -5
We signed Red X? How many years?
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