MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 14, 2006 15:20:34 GMT -5
Yahoo has been slacking in imaging lately. Not liking it. Better?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 14, 2006 15:26:15 GMT -5
Nothing there, Balls.
But do we really need it?? Can we stop playing baby games and flubbing with pictures and have some discussion here?
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Post by Chris on Dec 14, 2006 15:39:42 GMT -5
Tom, you are regurgitating the scout’s observations. That's fine. Those scouts know a hell of a lot more about pitching than I do.
My point is, with Japanese players, there's always been a cloud of uncertainty. The scouts touted Ichiro and they were right. The scouts also implied that Matsui's power would translate here, he might not be much of a hitter for average, and his left field play was awful. If anything, Matsui has reversed that - his power is nowhere near what it was in Japan, he hits for average more so than people thought, and his play in the field has been adequate - not anywhere close to the horror show that was expected.
You seem to think that I’m saying that you and the scouts are full of shit. That’s not the case.
All I'm saying is that despite what scouts say, there's enough inherent uncertainty involved in any player coming to MLB from Japan. Why are you being so stubborn on that? I never once claimed to KNOW that Matsuzaka will suck anywhere even close to the extent that you are guaranteeing he will dominate.
As a Yankee fan I want him to suck.....and considering that making predictions on a player coming from Japan is much more of a guessing game than evaluating players in farm systems, I'm not entirely convinced that my wishes won't come true.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 14, 2006 15:45:35 GMT -5
Again, there is not too much guessing to go on when you look at his STUFF and what he throws. Pitchers who throw ONE plus-plus pitch are stars. This guy, from ALL ACCOUNTS, throws THREE.
Also, you and I work off of different scouts. The scouts I read (Baseball America, mostly) said Matsui's power would NOT translate out here. How would it? Why would a guy IMPROVE over here, scouting aside?? They said the Yankees better hope his average was worth it. In fact, I hate to tell you, but Matsui's average has dissapointed....there was some hope he would hit over .300, especially with dwindling power numbers. As for his defense, all I remember reading of note was cries to keep him out of centerfield, where he played in Japan....that seems reasonable enough, dontcha think?
If you need, I can produce scouting reports saying as much. You are just reading the wrong things.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 14, 2006 15:55:28 GMT -5
I don't remember any scouts saying Matsui would hit 50 HR in the US. 35 is optimistic. He's done what I hoped for.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 14, 2006 15:58:02 GMT -5
More importantly, he's done what the real scouts predicted. Less power, very good average. Scouts hoped he would hit for even more average, but it was by no means predicted. The power numbers, in particular, were always projected to go down. I was reading projections of 20-25 while all you idiots were apparently reading projections topping 40.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 14, 2006 15:58:54 GMT -5
I don't remember any projection of 40 HR.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 14, 2006 16:07:10 GMT -5
Apparently Cho does.
Of course there weren't any. In fact, the sources I read were having some chuckles about how he was bringing the nickname of Godzilla over here with him, when he would never have the power to back up that imposing monicker.
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Post by Chris on Dec 14, 2006 17:33:15 GMT -5
I'll be the first to admit that I don't read Street And Smiths (or whatever the baseball scouting equivelent is). I'm a big Yankee fan - I watch or listen to ALL the games, read the website daily, read the paper daily, read the blogs and message boards daily, etc.... but no, I don't go to the extent to dig up scouting reports.
When the Yankees were contemplating signing Matsui, all of the talk I heard from Matsui came from the media or through the media. One that sticks out in particular was Bobby Valentine who claimed that 50 HRs in Japan translates to 50HRs in America. There were plenty of sportswriters who went along with the hype, saying Matsui was going to be a slugger. Sports talk radio was full of people talking about the power. There were plenty of people in the media claiming that the Mets' Matsui was going to be standout. My point is there has been nothing but inconsistent hype about Japanese players...at least through the more popular media outlets: the papers, talk radio, ESPN, SI, etc...
Tom, if your claim is that I don't read the scouting reports, then ok, you're right. I don't. If you're claim is that the scouts have always been spot on about every single Japanese player who has come to Major League Baseball, and therefore they are going to be spot on about Matsuzaka and that we should start dusting off a space on shelf in Cooperstown now....then I guess I'll have to go with you on that.....you read the scouting reports, I don't.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 14, 2006 18:35:11 GMT -5
Look, this is not really about scouting reports. I cant emphasize enough that the thing to watch with Bostons latest find is his STUFF. Just read what he throws, and imagine that coming towards our Yankee hitters. Its not fun to think about.
And in no way am i questioning your baseball acumen - you put as much - or more, time into the game as any of us. Its just you cant rely on Yankee scribes or "sportswriters" for anything but hype or he said/she said. A good example of this is hearing John Sterling or Michael Kay basically knowing nothing about the latest Yankee callup, then touting them with the next breath like they are some stud. Dont forget the way the local media touted Aaron Small when I was on here, armed with scouting reports, telling the real deal.
Cho, trust me on this one. Matsuzaka is going to be a nightmare for us.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Dec 14, 2006 21:33:04 GMT -5
hey, we got the little jap.
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Post by Chris on Dec 15, 2006 1:53:58 GMT -5
You mean to say that Matsuzaka is going to Jamie Moyer all over their asses? (I don't know what his record is against the Yankees, but it seems like every time I watch the Yankees face the mighty Jamie Moyer, he gives them complete fits) At least "we'll" be able to throw Joel Pineiro back at those Sox hitters! Tom, you're questioning the validity of remarks made by John Sterling??? Do you mean to tell me that Curtis Pride really ISN'T "our old pal?" ;D
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Post by 9 on Dec 15, 2006 8:55:08 GMT -5
Curtis Pride was lucky. He never had to listen to Sterling.
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Post by 9 on Dec 15, 2006 12:42:39 GMT -5
There's one thing that bothers me the most about this whole Matsuzaka signing.
I know exactly what the rebuttals are going to be: The Yankees' payroll still dwarfs Boston's payroll, etc.
But the Red Sox have gotten minimal flak for investing more than $100 million in a guy who has never thrown a pitch in the Major Leagues.
The Yankees would be getting CRUCIFIED by every single newspaper and Web site in this country if they had made the same move.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 15, 2006 12:48:19 GMT -5
The Yankees would have been snickered at cause it would have simply been the "same old, same old" for them. But dont worry about the Yankees drawing laughs....they did that by bidding $25 MILLION for someone everyone is projecting as a bottom of the rotation starter at best.
The Red Sox are simply trying to keep up with the Yankees. You KNOW that.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 15, 2006 12:53:06 GMT -5
So now it's the Yanks fault the Red Sox committed $200 million to a guy who never played in the majors, an injury prone OFer who has an attitude problem and has played two full seasons out of nine, and Julio Lugo?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 15, 2006 12:57:20 GMT -5
Yeah, pretty much. And when these guys make the Red Sox even more a pain in the ass, you will realize that - for them at least, it was money well spent. The Yankees wrote the book on how to buy trips to the playoffs.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Dec 15, 2006 13:04:46 GMT -5
Of course. You sound like a typical Red Sox fan.
Blame the Yanks for all the stupid things you do. I'm surprised you haven't blamed the Yanks for when the Mets traded Nolan Ryan.
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Post by 9 on Dec 15, 2006 14:48:43 GMT -5
The Sux finally made a smart move:
The Boston Red Sox on Friday acquired right-handed pitcher Brendan Donnelly from the Los Angeles Angels in exchange for left-hander Phil Seibel.
Donnelly, 35, was 6-0 with a 3.94 ERA in 62 appearances in 2006.
Seibel, who missed 2005 after undergoing reconstructive left elbow surgery, was 6-3 with a 1.24 ERA in 22 games in the Red Sox' minor league system last season, ending the year at Triple-A Pawtucket.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 15, 2006 15:11:02 GMT -5
Another move that hurts the Yankees.
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Post by Chris on Dec 15, 2006 16:50:42 GMT -5
I have absolutely NO CLUE WHATSOEVER what the Angels were thinking on that move.
Tom is right. That move hurts the Yankees. I didn't like facing the Donnelly, Shields (Scott Shields just might be the most underrated relief pitcher in baseball), Rodriguez threesome six or seven times a year...now we have to seen Donnelly 19 times per year? Hopefully the Sox lack of a closer makes up for this clear improvement in their middle relief.
Donnelly has been a huge part of the Angels pen for years and has been consistent. Short of Scott Shields and "K-Rod" he's been the most vital piece of that pen.
The Angels have been squawking on local talk radio that they didn't make any moves for a big bat because filling THAT hole would have meant compromising their pitching, their strength, thus creating another hole. Well at least getting a bat would have been doing something. All this move does is weaken their pitching, and that's ALL it does.
In the words of our favorite Angels fan.....ponderous f'n ponderous!!!
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Dec 15, 2006 18:20:06 GMT -5
Apparently the Angels take is the addition of Justin Speier made Donnelly expendable, at least in terms of their hopes of striking lightning in a bottle on Seibel. I had forgotten the Speier move. That makes this move a little less dumb to me.
Lets not forget the Sox also quietly added a lefthanded arm from Japan and also picked up JC Romero today. Although Romero's stats look ugly on paper last year, he held righthanded hitters to a .211 average last year and only permitted 13 of 44 inherited runners to score. Mike Stanton used to allow 13 inherited runners to score in a week.
Also, for all the crap the Red Sox are taking regarding their closing situation, if Craig Hansen steps in he could be another in the long line of young closers who come out of nowhere to dominate right away, ie Papelbon from the same team. Also, if worst comes to worst, the Sox are implying they may just plug Papelbon back in there.
Funny note about Seibel...he actually has a World Series ring with the Sox, having pitched 2 games for them after coming over during the season from the Mutts.
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Post by Chris on Dec 15, 2006 19:17:56 GMT -5
JC Romero has been good at times. He's a decent relief pitcher. An addition of a Donnelly-Romero bridge to the closer is an exponentially huge upgrade from a Manny Del Carmen - rapidly aging Mike Timlin one-two punch.
I only hope an additional year under of experience under the belts of Proctor and Kyle Farnsworth can counter.
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Post by 9 on Dec 17, 2006 23:46:43 GMT -5
LOL @ J.D. Drew:
Are the Red Sox having second thoughts on signing J.D. Drew? They at least want a second opinion on the outfielder's physical exam results, The Boston Globe reported Sunday.
Drew is scheduled to have a second opinion Monday on a shoulder issue that came up in Drew's first exam, a source told The Globe.
The newspaper reported that it isn't known if the issue could void Drew's deal with the Red Sox. Boston reached a preliminary agreement on a five-year, $70 million contract with Drew at the winter meetings on Dec. 5.
The shoulder issue could cause the Red Sox to shorten the length of the agreement, or replace some guarantees with incentives, The Globe reported.
The 31-year-old Drew has had injuries throughout his career, but he played in 146 games for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season and hit .283 with 20 homers and a team-high 100 RBI. He became a free agent when he opted out of the last three years of his five-year, $55 million.
The injuries have added to negative perceptions that have followed Drew since the Philadelphia Phillies selected him No. 2 overall in the 1997 amateur draft. He did not sign, went back into the draft and was picked by the St. Louis Cardinals fifth overall the next year.
Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
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Post by Jackass on Dec 19, 2006 22:01:00 GMT -5
Cho, you should know that the Angels needed a left hander in the pen (because J.C. Romero shit the bed last season) making Donnelly the odd man out.
Plus, Donnelly fell out of favor last season because he started opening his yap that Shields was getting more innings than he was. Donnelly should know that Shields has a rubber arm and early in the season, Donnelly couldn't get anyone out. While I'm not happy that he is gone, I'm not too upset by it either. I still think they have a high quality pen. Brendan is not the same pitcher he was two seasons ago.
Now that he is a Ded Suck I hope he gets juvenile cancer and has to rely on the Jimmy Fund to send him to the Imus camp where he gets kicked in the face by a mule and breaks his nose again.
I am ecstatic that they got rid of that huge piece of shit Kevin Gregg. What a fucking load he was with that stupid jay Leno/Kenny Rogers lantern jaw.
Dumb shit. Now if they can only find a sucker to take that awful shit stain, Chone Figgins.
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Post by Chris on Dec 20, 2006 0:27:50 GMT -5
The Angels will be worse without Chone Figgins....no brainer!
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Post by Jackass on Dec 20, 2006 6:23:02 GMT -5
Cho, that guy gives other teams so many more runs with his shitty defense than he gives the Angels with his base stealing skills that it's not even funny.
For the first two thirds of last season he couldn't get on base which made me vomit because I had to hear Rex Hudler say, "Well, you can't steal first base" about a million times.
I lay the loss in the 2004 playoffs to the Ded Sux solely at Chone Figgins fast feet and stone glove.
If they can get Figgins and a pitcher (perhaps Kelvim Escobar) out in exchange for a big left had bat (doesn't look like it will happen, though) and change the team slightly to have a bit more power, I think they will be just fine.
Chone Figgins is the Angels I hate the most. I haven't hated an Angel this much since Jim Edmonds.
That is all. Back to the fascinating Ded Suck discussion.
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Post by Chris on Dec 20, 2006 13:30:57 GMT -5
You don't blame the fact that Troy Percival never even sniffed the mound in Fenway for the 2004 loss to the Red Sox?
Sometimes you hear a little soundbyte about a player and it just sticks with you....I remember hearing Mike Sciosia saying on a talk radio show, about Figgins, "Good things happen when he is in the game." My experience has been that he is right. You can't put your finger on it, it's an intangible, but Figgins' presence in the game is usually good for the Angels.
Having said that, I might trade Figgins and Escobar for a big bat...but we're talkin' BIG here. I'm talking Gary Sheffield, Manny Ramirez big. But then again, who of that caliber is out there?
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Post by 9 on Dec 20, 2006 14:09:58 GMT -5
Jackass, why Jim Edmonds? Not questioning your opinion, just curious. Haven't heard too many bad things about him.
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Post by jwmcc on Dec 20, 2006 14:18:53 GMT -5
"I remember hearing Mike Sciosia saying on a talk radio show, about Figgins, "Good things happen when he is in the game." My experience has been that he is right. You can't put your finger on it, it's an intangible, but Figgins' presence in the game is usually good for the Angels."
Or I don't know, maybe you could, well, watch the guy play in a few games and see for yourself. Or even better, take a look at his statistical output over the course of the baseball season. Jw
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