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Post by 9 on Feb 24, 2007 10:55:54 GMT -5
I don't think the Twins did anything wrong with Liriano. Injuries happen. They were pretty careful with him, and resisted letting him start for quite some time. But point taken.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2007 9:11:04 GMT -5
Well, the Baseball-America top 100 prospect list came out, and we have 5 guys on it.
Haven't there been years where we've had no more than 1 guy, if that?
I wonder who would have been 101. It's kind of cheesy that Matsusaka is on the list (number 1), but it also makes some sense.
I was actually surprised to see Betances on the list. What's strange is that he's now behind Chamberlain. When they released the Yanks top 10 list, he was actually ahead of Chamberlain. I guess Chamberlain's showing in winter ball helped there.
I was also a little surprised that Mr. Wonderful Ross Ohlendorf was NOT on the list.
Hughes--4 Tabata--27 Sanchez--57 Chamberlain--75 Batances--100
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Post by $heriff Tom on Mar 3, 2007 11:06:35 GMT -5
I don't think the Twins did anything wrong with Liriano. Injuries happen. They were pretty careful with him, and resisted letting him start for quite some time. But point taken
Liriano has a corkscrew delivery. There was always a threat of an injury roaring in from out of nowhere. It was either pray it did not happen, or change his delivery and most of what made him special. They left him alone and paid for it. But this was not the Twins fault.
I wonder who would have been 101. It's kind of cheesy that Matsusaka is on the list (number 1), but it also makes some sense.
No more cheesy as when the Yankees were represented by Hideki Matsui. And Matsusaka is more a prospect to me, not only talent-wise but agewise is closer (he's only 27)
In past years the Yankees have usually had about 3 guys, with a cast like Matsui, Duncan, Navarro and the like. This is a good representation. I believe the Mutts have 3. Boston had 6 just a couple of years ago, some teams have had as many as 7. The key here is the Yankees have some PITCHERS popping on the list. That is a rarity for the pinstripes since i have started paying attention to these lists.
Chamberlain always had to talent to push his way high on this list, but he is an injury concern. Come to think of it, so is Sanchez....but man, I like those guys. I have heard a heap of good things on Betances, but apparently he came in with a rep of all attitude. A Sheff on the mound instead of the OF. But he's a kid. We'll see where that goes. His stuff is supposed to be decimating.
Ohlendorf is good, but lets not go crazy here - he didnt come into the system as one of the top 100 people in organized baseball, and nothing changed between then and that list.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 3, 2007 11:20:52 GMT -5
If Matsui was in that list too, you're right. That's just dumb. Hopefully in Betances' case, attitudes can be adjusted. I also look at what level you are in the rankings too. Someone in AAA ball or so is likely peaking on that list, and is close to making the jump to MLB soon. Someone in A ball or even AA has time to develop more and will be higher on the list the following year. That's what's impressing me about Tabata. He's not even close to MLB yet and he's there.
That said, for whatever reason, I have a bad feeling about Tabata.
Christian Garcia didn't make the list, but he's a massive injury concern. In fact, I thought I read he's missing the entire 2007 season.
I think Mr. Wonderful Ross Ohlendorf was in Arizona's top ten before the trade. So was one of the other 2 pitchers we got in the Sheff trade. I know that doesn't necessarily make you top 100 overall, but I was hoping.
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Post by drock2006 on Mar 3, 2007 15:25:20 GMT -5
I was more refering to the fact that the Twins did not baby Liriano, and brought him back in Sept for the playoff drive, wheras other etams shut young arms down at the first hint of trouble for the year. The original comment was in reference to reasons why the yankees are/may be cautious and babying Hughes
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 7, 2007 7:30:52 GMT -5
So Hughes pitched 2 scoreless innings yesterday. Are the people that had him done and a bust now salivating and ready for him to start Opening Day? After all, he showed a LOT of improvement, and his ERA dropped from 4.50 to 2.25. That's great pitching. It's unfortunate Wang is going to have to be cut, since he gave up a few runs, but at least Hughes is ok. There's a big difference between the first game and the second game of spring training after all.
Mr. Wonderful Ross Ohlendorf gave up 3 runs, but they were all unearned, so he's still the man.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Mar 7, 2007 8:40:20 GMT -5
If Matsui was in that list too, you're right. That's just dumb.
No its not. You are talking about guys who had not played an inning in the majors. Therefore, they are PROSPECTS. Sorry, but you can not sully up the word prospect to only count under a certain age, or professional background elsewhere. If Matzusaka and Matsui were not prospects, and not major leaguers, what were they, in some sort of baseball purgatory, or land of the lost?
As for Tabata, there are legit concerns. Scouts do not like his body, and they dont think the power is going to come. If it doesnt, he will end up becoming another dime a dozen. This next couple of seasons will be huge.
As for Hughes, no cause for concern or joy....he pitched to his comfort level...only a couple of innings. The guy, and his employers, are scared to let him air it out in the regular season, so this sort of little teeny stint is old hat to him.
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Post by Chris on Mar 7, 2007 8:42:04 GMT -5
Clearly you didn't read ANYTHING about Hughes in his last outing. He was wild and had no velocity. The run didn't concern me one bit....AGAIN, it was his velocity, short pitch count, and walks that concerned anyone who has followed this guy's career thus far.
I didn't SEE him pitch yesterday (I did listen, but it was the Indians broadcast so they didn't give out any specifics on Hughes)...so just as I wasn't overly alarmed with the run he gave up last time out, I'm not ready to give him a plaque in Cooperstown just because he threw two scoreless innings in Spring Training. What I want to know is how was his velocity, how was his location? If he was throwing 93/94 and if you can tell me that his walk came via some close pitches, I'll do a little jig for his improvement.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Mar 7, 2007 9:20:22 GMT -5
"I think Mr. Wonderful Ross Ohlendorf"
I let out an involuntary guffaw when I read this, causing people in my office to look at me quizzically.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 7, 2007 9:37:54 GMT -5
It is the best nickname ever. I want him to make the team just because of his name.
As for Tabata, he's ranking very high on the list for someone with lots of concerns. I understand the points though. That said, I don't consider this year to be super pivotal given his age. I don't even think he's 19 yet, and he should be starting the year in AA. So I wouldn't push the panic button on this year alone.
Fortunately, he's not nearly as pivotal to the future of the Yanks as are the pitching prospects. And Cho, I read all about Hughes' first outing.
But what you failed to understand was that it was the first start in spring training, and 2 innings. Not 100 innings in June. 2 innings on March 1.
If you pitch like shit in your first start in spring training, you are not a flash in the pan, overhyped, etc. Whether you do a jig is irrelevant--the reports are glowing.
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Post by Chris on Mar 7, 2007 13:59:01 GMT -5
OK, let me try and approach this a different way.
Balls - by NO MEANS was attempting to extrapolate a prediction for the rest of Hughes' career from his fist 2 innings of Spring Training. I think that's the impression you might be under. I was not attempting to imply that because he sucked these 2 innings, he will suck from here on out, as if I had never seen or heard of him.
Opposed to using those 2 innings as a starting point to gage what is to come....I am concerned that these 2 innings were a continuation of (and not so much the two innings themselves, but rather the lack of velocity and the short leash) of what has been speculated to have been a troubled past in regards to his arm's health.
Clearly he has "stuff" and talent. Clearly! My concerns revolve around his health and durability. I'm not much interested in a pitcher with a ton of promise headed toward severe health issues(again to bring up the Rick Ankiel analogy) nor am interested in an Jaret Wright kinda guy who can only go 5 innings. Not saying I know that's what Hughes is gonna turn out to be....just saying, I don't want that from him and some of his past scares me.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Mar 7, 2007 14:02:30 GMT -5
I don't want that from him and some of his past scares me.
And rightfully so. There is cause for legit concern there, until he can air it out and pitch a season without being coddled, which to me is a sign of pain.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 7, 2007 14:11:51 GMT -5
It's not that big of a concern since no one seems to be reporting on it, and he made it through a full season without injury last year. Worry about him when he actually gets hurt.
Please read this sentence:
The 2 innings from the first game in spring training are absolutely meaningless.
There was NOTHING injury related about those 2 innings. He gave up ONE run. It wouldn't have even mattered if he got shelled yesterday. I'd rather him pitch well than pitch badly, but there is NOTHING about early spring training games that are cause for concern.
Hughes will be pitching 175-180 innings this year. Hopefully he'll stay healthy. I don't worry about stuff that happens to an 18 year old. THAT is when he was shut down.
I'm not saying he'll be a HOFer today. But the guy is the top prospect in the organization and top 4 prospect in baseball for a reason.
The Yanks are trying to build his arm up. Add 25 innings per year. He'll be throwing 200 innings by the time he's 21. It's not a problem at this point.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Mar 7, 2007 14:19:20 GMT -5
and he made it through a full season without injury last year
By remaining on a ridiculous "5 innings or 75 pitches, whatever comes first" baby plan.
Honestly, I smell trouble.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 7, 2007 14:20:47 GMT -5
That's not trouble. Someone in your office probably just farted.
I'm not sure he's still on a 75 pitch schedule. That was done because they wanted to cap him at 150 innings, and he was ahead of pace in the first half. I would guess 6 innings/90 pitches this year.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Mar 7, 2007 14:28:25 GMT -5
I would guess 6 innings/90 pitches this year.
Wowie zowie!
How bout letting him pitch as long as it takes to get the job done? If he is not capable of it, send him to a doctor and have him checked out.
Its time to take the leash off. This is getting absurd.
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Post by Chris on Mar 7, 2007 14:40:53 GMT -5
"There was NOTHING injury related about those 2 innings." - is this your quote or did you just fail to cite the source? How can you or anyone say that? Why was he pulled early...it's getting tiring to hear about Hughes' first TWO innings of the Spring, when in fact it WASN'T TWO INNINGS...they pulled him.
"It's not that big of a concern since no one seems to be reporting on it" - not now. Now it's Spring. Now the media is looking to promote the feel good story of the THE NEXT BIG THING. What about last year when people WERE talking about it? What about the piece on Yankees Hot Stove just a few months back in which they talked about speculation on the health of Hughes' arm. Are those talks to be simply disregarded now? Not by me.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 7, 2007 14:58:09 GMT -5
Actually, the media would love to quash the feel good story of the spring. People were talking about it more last year because last year it was more of a concern. But in 2006, he was NOT injured.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Mar 7, 2007 17:19:43 GMT -5
Balls I am sure you are excited about this little blurb from Cashman concerning MR. WONDERFUL....
With Hughes as the centerpiece, the Yankees' young pitching has never looked better. GM Brian Cashman received six minor-league arms for Gary Sheffield and Randy Johnson. The best of that bunch is 24-year-old Ross Ohlendorf, who Cashman said is dead even with Hughes.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 7, 2007 18:12:36 GMT -5
Wow. That's a bold statement from Cashman, but I find that hard to believe. Mr. Wonderful Ross Ohlendorff is very good, but I think if he were THAT good, he would have made the top 100, and he didn't.
Still, that report is simply wonderful.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Mar 7, 2007 18:27:37 GMT -5
who Cashman said is dead even with Hughes.
LOL! Thats a hoot. I HOPE he meant "dead even with Hughes" in terms of having a shot of making the team (with his age and experience advantage, he has more an inside track) and not talent....NO WAY Ohlendorf is Phil Hughes. NO ONE is saying that. If our GM really believes that, maybe he is not the wonderkund GM everyone thinks he is...
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 7, 2007 18:36:37 GMT -5
At best, Mr. Wonderful Ross Ohlendorf would be even with Hughes, based on the 2 games. But other than that, it's simply meaningless hype. Prove it on the field.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Mar 9, 2007 13:59:47 GMT -5
Balls another plug for "Mr. Wonderful" on Gammons latest ESPN blog...
Ross Ohlendorf, the Princetonian acquired from Arizona in the Randy Johnson deal, looked better, sitting at 94-95 with filthy breaking stuff that will beg questions about him as a viable bullpen alternative early in the season.
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 9, 2007 14:02:39 GMT -5
I'd rather see Mr. Wonderful Ross Ohlendorf in AAA starting. If he's good enough to start on the MLB level, no need to make him a bullpen guy.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Mar 9, 2007 14:06:37 GMT -5
I agree with Balls, leave him alone and dont switch his role and screw things up.
This said, this guy is getting WAY too much play. He's good, but he is nothing near what seems to be cascading out here. Lets take a step back and relax a bit, shall we.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Mar 9, 2007 14:12:22 GMT -5
Tom..don't shoot the messenger... ;D
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 9, 2007 14:18:59 GMT -5
He's not just good Tom, he's simply wonderful.
But the bottom line is this--he's not even in the top 100. Not saying he couldn't get there, and might even exceed some expectations as some prospects do, but there are a few pitchers within the Yanks' own system that are considered better.
Still, it's better than receiving bad reviews.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Mar 9, 2007 14:36:20 GMT -5
Well I thought one of the scouts or something the Yanks had recently hired was previously with Arizona and he was the one who steered Cashman to select Mr. Wonderful in the Johnson deal.......I think if he is a reliever he should come out of the bullpen with a nice flowing sequined robe and then fling his sweat on the ball boy as he takes his robe away on the mound...
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Post by MSBNYY on Mar 9, 2007 14:53:24 GMT -5
If he is in the bullpen he should come out to the Mr. Wonderful WCW theme.
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Post by 9 on Mar 9, 2007 15:04:27 GMT -5
LOL! You guys are out of control.
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