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Post by ajfreakz on May 13, 2008 22:35:46 GMT -5
well imo if the player is doing his job..
he has the right to do anything he wants.
i mean we have had vets come to mind dennis eck.. was one for doing a pump fist or a fake blowing smoke from his fingers and he is also a hall of famer
don't take things away from a guy when it motivates him !!
IT'S A FUCKING GAME BY THE WAY !!
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 13, 2008 22:46:03 GMT -5
Hey, I'm with you in a lot of ways. I am not a square, or an old fogey. Hell, in the old days guys would spend the entire game razzing their foes from their dugout perch. But what gets me is none of you guys would have ever been on here or anywhere else defending Pedro Martinez, or Ugueth Urbina, or any of those other guys, who did the same thing. In fact, many of you ripped them. But now that one of OURS is doing it, its fine and dandy.
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Post by ajfreakz on May 13, 2008 22:53:53 GMT -5
Hey tom i hear ya i'll be the first to admit that i hate when manny stops and poses. or when the douche closer in boston does his thing.
BUT the only reason i'm now going to side with joba n' his pump fist and yelling is there never has been a problem w/ any other pitcher until it was a Yankee. and i think that is very unfair.
the spent 3 days almost a month ago on mike and the maddog and then 3 days last week on it again. and its just a tad bit silly to me. so i am ok w/ what joba does only because i've read up on it and he has been doing this since he was in little league all the way up the ranks to the bronx so he hasn't changed and why would we want to change this kid ..i mean look what he has done and what potential he has !!
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on May 14, 2008 5:57:10 GMT -5
Tom--why should we defend a player on another team? Likewise, you would be the first one to defend Urbina or Martinez, while ripping on a Yankee.
It's a hell of a lot better to see Joba like that than as some drone who doesn't give a crap.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 14, 2008 6:54:39 GMT -5
Balls, i am not tellling anyone to defend our foes. What I am saying it its fiercely hypocritical to defend Joba when you are part of the same crew who openly RIPPED guys like Ubrina and Pedro for doing THE SAME THING. If anything its a classic case of Yankee blinders. As to this situation, its actually being discussed again NOW, as I am listening to the Roger and JP morning show on 102.3 WBAB. JP is defending it staunchly, while Roger the square is perturbed. But again, to me it simply goes down to hypocricy of people who think its the greatest thing on Earth cause a Yankee is doing it, but its the work of the Devil when someone does it while closing out a game vs them same Yankees. Its one or the other, folks.
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Post by MSBNYY on May 14, 2008 8:11:08 GMT -5
Actually, what you are seeing more is the hypocrisy in the other direction. The comments tend to be "it's not the Yankee way" as Goose put it. So if Joba was wearing a Padres uniform, it would be ok? THAT is a double standard.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 14, 2008 8:36:46 GMT -5
I am not worried about double-standards through Goose's eyes. I am worried about double standards on the message board I frequent.
And Goose never called the action ok, by anyone. He is a big proponent in, "act like you've been there before." And the Yankees ARE held to a higher standard, or should be anyhow. They are the benchmark of the sport. Let them play games in San Diego, who cares.
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Post by Chris on May 14, 2008 10:11:53 GMT -5
Actually it's not true to say that it only became a problem when a Yankee did it.
Derek Lowe has gotten some amount of shit for it. The aforementioned Oil Can Boyd was quite controversial because of it. Eckersley was largely considered an asshole for it. People have ripped Frankie Rodriguez for it. It's not just a Yankee thing.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 14, 2008 10:16:43 GMT -5
THATS MY POINT, CHO.
Some of the same people ripping Boyd, Ek, Frankie Rod and others for it DEFEND Joba. Just cause he is a Yankee.
Thanks for making my point for me!
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Post by ajfreakz on May 14, 2008 10:23:10 GMT -5
the following is from Peter Abraham's LoHud Blog:
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. –- Hall of Famer Goose Gossage called Joba Chamberlain yesterday to personally relay the critical comments he has been making about the 22-year-old reliever to the media.
Chamberlain said he appreciated the call but doesn’t plan to dial back the emotion he sometimes shows on the mound.
Gossage told reporters on Monday that Chamberlain shouldn’t pump his fist after strikeouts. “There’s no place for it in the game,” he said.
In an interview with the Bergen Record last week, Gossage was even more critical.
“That’s just not the Yankee way. Let everyone else do that stuff, but not a Yankee,” Gossage said. “What I don’t understand is, the kid’s got the greatest mentor in the world in Mariano (Rivera). He’s one of the leaders of the team, so you’d think it wouldn’t happen on that team.”
Chamberlain said he and Gossage had a “great conversation” and that he respect what the former Yankee said.
“It is what it is. I’m not going to change. He was a man, he called me, he told me where he was coming from and I appreciate it,” Chamberlain said.
“People are going to say stuff to me all the time. The fact of the matter is I got to where I’m at by being who I am. I’m not going to change.”
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Post by Chris on May 14, 2008 10:27:18 GMT -5
I was agreeing with you Tom. Others claimed that this only became a big deal when a Yankee did it, chalking it up to some sort of anti-Yankee bias, and that's not true.
And again, I will remind you that while I was not the FIRST Joba fan on here, I just might be the biggest, and I too have ripped Joba on this board for his shenanigans. I'm not too crazy about it either. Again, just act like ya been there before.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 14, 2008 10:28:11 GMT -5
Its only a matter of time for someone to get a big hit off of Joba, only to jump up and down and pump their fists like little girls playing field hockey.
By the way, I wonder if you put those midges in Cleveland under a microscope if we could have seen they were pumping little fists as they landed on and around his neck.
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Post by thecaptain15 on May 14, 2008 11:54:30 GMT -5
Goose just needs to shut the f-up and enjoy his induction.....
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Post by 9 on May 14, 2008 12:27:23 GMT -5
He never shut the fuck up before his election. Why start now?
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Post by ajfreakz on May 14, 2008 12:41:10 GMT -5
“People are going to say stuff to me all the time. The fact of the matter is I got to where I’m at by being who I am. I’m not going to change.”
and thats why this guy is going to be a great fixture in the bronx..
a big F-U to Goose.. atta boy Joba
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on May 15, 2008 5:50:04 GMT -5
The way I see it, Goose is entitled to his opinion. I wouldn't disrespect him just because I disagree in this case. The man does happen to be the second greatest reliever in Yankee history, and is only second because the greatest relief pitcher of all time happens to be a Yankee.
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Post by Chris on May 15, 2008 11:23:12 GMT -5
If Goose always inherited a lead with no runners on base and one inning to pitch....the history books might look a bit different.
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Post by MSBNYY on May 15, 2008 12:31:55 GMT -5
Maybe. He was outstanding in his day. He would have had more saves to be sure.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 15, 2008 12:45:26 GMT -5
Mariano would not have been able to do what Goose used to do, the 3 inning save. Every time Mariano is called upon to pitch more than an inning, he has his ass handed to him.
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Post by Domi on May 15, 2008 18:55:39 GMT -5
Every time Mariano is called upon to pitch more than an inning, he has his ass handed to him. That's simply not true.
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Post by Chris on May 15, 2008 19:01:34 GMT -5
He may not have his ass handed to him every time, Domi, but his success level is drastically different.
I'm not saying that Mariano is not the greatest reliever. But what I am saying is that Mariano, and every one of today's closer are 9 times out of 10 pitching under optimal conditions. Goose not only had to come in for 2-3 inning saves routinely, but he often came in with inherited runners in scoring position, and less than 2 outs. Inherited runners for Mo is kinda like the Great Wall of China for most of us - some far off mysterious phenomenon that we'll never see.
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Post by Chris on May 15, 2008 19:08:37 GMT -5
Goose Gossage has 112 career blown saves! 112!!!!! I don't have the stats on how many of those he blew in his first inning of work (which would roughly equate to a blown save for Mo) but that still doesn't take into account all of the runners he inherited. He has 310 saves and ONE HUNDRED TWENTY-something wins for chrissakes!!!! You bring in Goose for one inning with a clean slate some of those wins and blown saves probably translate to well over 400 saves.
Not ONLY that, but if he isn't being used for 3 innings at a time, he probably gets a helluva a lot more appearances and opportunities.
Apples and Oranges. Saying Mo is better than Goose based only on save totals is a totally unfair comparison.
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Post by 9 on May 22, 2008 7:51:07 GMT -5
Well, now it looks like Joba will have to tone down his dancing to save his energy: Girardi said his two innings last night were the first step toward putting him in the rotation. I seriously hope they make a deal for a reliever, because I don't trust any of these other feeble fucktards, and I don't want Mariano pitching two innings.
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Post by MSBNYY on May 22, 2008 8:21:29 GMT -5
I don't see how making a deal for a reliever will help, since odds are, any reliever they bring in will also suck. I really think that good middle relievers/8th inning guys can't be acquired. You have to make them in your own system. But I'm glad they are starting with Joba getting him to start.
I don't understand the cloak and dagger though. What they are doing actually is in line with their spring training plans.
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Post by Jason Giambi on May 22, 2008 8:46:09 GMT -5
Good relievers are golden...... Balls is right, who is going to trade a decent set-up man. Except for the Yankees, usually they don't make all that much and are more difficult to find. What's up with Sanchez, the guy they got for Sheffield, is he pitching again, wasn't he supposed to be pretty good?
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Post by MSBNYY on May 22, 2008 8:58:02 GMT -5
Sanchez is rehabbing from TJ surgery. It's going fine last I heard. There's a chance he could be seeing some time in the majors this season, the guy can't be expected to do what Joba does in 2008. It takes a year of PITCHING to get fully back to normal, which means earliest he can truly impact the club is 2009.
Best bets are JB Cox and Mark Melancon right now, and they are moving through the system. Then again, they both also missed most of 2007 due to injury and are working back. Melancon is doing well though in AA (he started in A). Cox recently moved to AAA and is doing fine there, though hasn't struck out anyone in his 3 innings.
There's potential relief help in the minors--but not necessarily immediate help.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 22, 2008 9:21:13 GMT -5
I have always advocated Joba in the rotation, but the way they are going through this is a joke. Its going to backfire, and hard. He should have been throwing as a starter since the spring. The idea of leaving the set-up role barren is yet another issue, but I could care less about that right now . We need starters who can make the set-up role even mean anything.
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Post by MSBNYY on May 22, 2008 9:46:31 GMT -5
I understand your point, though the reason they didn't do this was because of the innings limitation. Had he started in spring training, they likely would have had to shut him down in August. They don't want him going over 140 innings this year.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 22, 2008 10:27:22 GMT -5
Whats with the innings limitation? ? STOP BABYING THESE GUYS! Only the Yankees pull this crap. If a guy cant air it out, he should not be taking up a roster spot in the major leagues.
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Post by Chris on May 22, 2008 11:28:00 GMT -5
So, what happens if Joba goes to the rotation and is a bust?
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