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Post by Jason Giambi on May 27, 2008 13:00:35 GMT -5
No...you want to know what would have been "right?" Having him work out as a starter during the offseason, and especially in the Spring. And having him on the hill as a starter from the get-go. He should not have been babied, he should not be "switching roles" and he should not be given pitch and inning counts before he even gets into the job. ' The way this has been handled, to say nothing about the ridiculous back-and-forth between Cashman and Hank on this, is embarrassing. You are right Tom. They need to get a plan and stick with it. Stop the babying and let him pitch.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on May 27, 2008 13:10:06 GMT -5
They aren't babying him. You don't take a 20 year old, and throw them 200 innings. Look around, there aren't that many of them that do that.
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Post by Chris on May 27, 2008 13:21:13 GMT -5
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Post by Jason Giambi on May 27, 2008 14:33:09 GMT -5
140 innings, starting, relieving, long man, short man..... it may not be babying them, but if he's gonna start, then let him start. They screwed up big time relying on the other two. Should have gotten Santana, or gotten Colon.
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Post by MSBNYY on May 27, 2008 14:51:34 GMT -5
The price for Santana was too high. No interest in Colon.
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Post by Jason Giambi on May 27, 2008 15:15:31 GMT -5
you will be watching colon pitch in the playoffs from your sofa, as they beging imploding yankee stadium 10/5.
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Post by Chris on May 27, 2008 15:15:57 GMT -5
"No interest in Colon."
No shit...who wants a guy that can give you quality starts consecutively. What challenge is that for our offense?
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Post by MSBNYY on May 27, 2008 15:55:40 GMT -5
Colon is so great that no one wanted him and he didn't get to the majors until almost June.
It's only a matter of time before he resurfaces. I'm glad Boston has him. ARod owns him.
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Post by Jason Giambi on May 27, 2008 16:14:51 GMT -5
that's because they were all afraid of kennedy, hughes and the 9.00 eras that they have.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 27, 2008 18:18:54 GMT -5
Oh, and here's another fun thing to consider. While cleaning up after dinner I was listening to Sterling and Waldman drone on, and Sterling said matter-of-factly that when Joba starts, for a while he "won't be expected to go too long." Oh, really??
SO WHATS THE FUCKING POINT.
Who the HELL is going to backfill his innings? A loser like Kennedy? The rest of the battered bullpen? If the guy is not fucking ready, scrap the fucking experiment until he IS fucking ready.
Wonderful. Even if Joba is at his best, we get to have him for 5 or 6 innings instead of 2! Whoopie!
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Post by Chris on May 27, 2008 18:28:32 GMT -5
Tom, did you not read the thread...this was, apparently, the PLAN all along.
BRILLIANT!
;D
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 27, 2008 18:50:50 GMT -5
Here's what I think of this fucking bumblefuck plan.
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Post by Jason Giambi on May 27, 2008 19:16:20 GMT -5
Here's what I think of this fucking bumblefuck plan. between all the starters that can't pitch 8 innings, why not carry 20 pitchers, and a few hitters? The starters can pitch an inning or two every day, and take the field, aka Ron Guidry. Brian Cashman, the next GM in Philly.
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Post by 9 on May 27, 2008 19:32:36 GMT -5
ESPN Radio, for some ungodly reason, gives Warner Wolf a few minutes during the Mike and Mike show in the morning to rant and rave. All he does is bitch about why things can't be the way they used to be. But I have to agree with one of his constant rants: Pitchers are bigger and stronger, so why can't they pitch complete games, or at least pitch deep into games, like starters used to? The Yankees really do baby their pitchers. I think everyone's afraid of creating the next Mark Prior, or Jose Rijo.
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Post by Chris on May 28, 2008 10:53:33 GMT -5
Interesting, Puff.
Joe Torre has a two-page rant on that in John Feinstein's latest book.
Did you know a guy who pitched as recently as 1992, Burt Blyleven, pitched 240+ complete games, while Mike Mussina and Tom Glavine have about 40+ and 20+ respectively with an equal or greater number of wins than Blyleven?
According to Mussina, it's not that today's pitchers physically can not do it, it's that their mindset is not prepared to do it. They know they're expected to throw six innings and they pitch and expend energy according to those expectations. He claims that he's physically capable of throwing 9 innings of baseball on any given day, but knows he won't be called on to do it.
All this dates back to 1969, when the Mets employed a 5 man rotation, made heavy use of relievers, and the mound was lowered to increase offense. Specialized pitchers are a pitching coaches reaction to baseballs reaction to lowered offense in the "Pitchers Era."
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 28, 2008 11:04:29 GMT -5
between all the starters that can't pitch 8 innings, why not carry 20 pitchers, and a few hitters? The starters can pitch an inning or two every day, and take the field, aka Ron Guidry.
Speaking of, I forgot to mention one more gem that Sterling expoused during my brief spate of listening to last nights game on the radio. He said there is consideration to, at least for a while, a SIX MAN ROTATION. He pretty much implied that if Kennedy was doing anything worth a damn that would be a given, but they still may want to do it to SAVE WEAR ON JOBA'S ARM.
So now we are catering the entire staff around what the Yankees do with the big Indian.
This is just absurd. Even more absurd was Sterling saying Kennedy may be pitching for a spot as a middle reliever. Yeah, just great, a guy who can make a 6-1 deficit into an 11-1 deficit in no time!
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Post by Chris on May 28, 2008 11:44:03 GMT -5
Well, in all fairness to Kennedy, with this offense a 6-1 deficit is not different than an 11-1 deficit.
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Post by 9 on May 28, 2008 12:01:01 GMT -5
A 1-0 defecit isn't very different from an 11-1 defecit.
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 31, 2008 12:44:07 GMT -5
So Girardi flat-out said Joba is going to be held down to around 65-70 pitches, which means we may see as little as 5 innings from Joba, even if he pitches well. Then what.
What a fucking mess this is turning out to be.
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Post by Chris on May 31, 2008 13:26:37 GMT -5
Joba is expected to start Tuesday.
I just love that we have this built in excuse of "growing pains." I guess we should start calling Joba "Mikey Seaver."
So if Joba goes out Tuesday, spits the bit, and we're left with an abysmal variety chumps holding down the 7th and 8th innings....all is OK because it's just "growing pains."
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Post by Chris on May 31, 2008 13:31:33 GMT -5
"even if he pitches well"
And that's a big IF, Tom. We saw what Joba did in the little time he had in the Spring working as a starter. The velocity was down making mistakes on fastballs vulnerable, making the slider less effective to some measurable amount, tinkering with a breaking pitch that he struggled to locate. I'm not saying that Joba won't be a good starter one day...but he'll never be as dominating a starter as he is a closer, and the Yankees are basically turning live June baseball into extended training camp.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 31, 2008 14:03:56 GMT -5
and the Yankees are basically turning live June baseball into extended training camp.
BINGO.
That statement right there basically summarizes page after page of concerns. You nailed it there.
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Post by 9 on May 31, 2008 14:53:47 GMT -5
Edwar Ramirez will be the next Joba. Write that down. (Or not.)
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Post by Chris on May 31, 2008 20:00:23 GMT -5
If you listen to Max Kellerman, that's true. Max has been touting Edwar as the next coming of Sparky Lyle all week long. Of course, Max also told us last year how Andy Phillips advanced age and long tenure in the minor leagues was actually a plus and that he was the long term solution to all of our 1st base woes.
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Post by MSBNYY on May 31, 2008 21:02:13 GMT -5
Well, if that happens, he would be defying all projections. I have never seen Ramirez touted like a superstar. It would be a nice surprise. He was way overmatched last year while dominating in the minors. This year, he has quietly been very respectable. I wouldn't bet on it, but I would love it.
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Post by $heriff Tom on May 31, 2008 23:36:42 GMT -5
Eh, where is all that hope coming from? Ramirez does not have it like that. He's not even a blip in the mind of the scouts. Sparky Lyle my ass.
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Post by MSBNYY on Jun 1, 2008 9:05:18 GMT -5
It's obvious WHY people are thinking that. Reports or not, he's pitching well.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 1, 2008 9:22:49 GMT -5
Balls, you're fucking incredible. So, cause he is pitching so well in SIXTEEN FUCKING INNINGS this year, he's on track to be Sparky Lyle? Did you forget 2007 ever happened?
Lets recap.
21 innings, 24 hits, NINETEEN earned runs, 14 walks.
Sparky Lyle could pitch better while sitting his ass on a cake in the clubhouse.
Sparky Lyle! LOLOOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!
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Post by 9 on Jun 1, 2008 9:32:06 GMT -5
Um, for the record, I was joking. I like Ramirez and he's pitched well this year, but I'm almost waiting for the implosion.
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Post by $heriff Tom on Jun 1, 2008 9:34:59 GMT -5
Well, I know YOU were joking. I was touching upon what Cho mentioned was coming out of the mouth of Kellerman, which Balls latched on to like it is on track to be a given.
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