The ECW Thread

[cactusjames]

What better way to get this thread up and running then with the announcement of a December ECW ppv called "December to Dismember"(ugh). With the consistent strong ratings this should sell. Hopefully they start booking toward that instead of having Summerslam rematches.

[$heriff Tom]

That name harkens me back to the "Colossol Jostle." Hey, what do you think of "Hardcore" Holly storming onto the scene. I think he is a very good fit there. Matt Striker, not so much a great fit. I am enjoying the new ECW product. With all these new names they are bringing around, can a 2-hour weekly be far behind?

[MSBNYY]

I just can't get into it, even though I believe you when you say it got a lot better. There's just not enough room in the schedule to watch that much wrestling. I follow Raw the most, and I follow Smackdown to a lesser extent, but I still skim through it and know what's going on. But no mas.

Striker in ECW really doesn't work unless he changes his character completely. Is that happening? He belongs more on Raw or Smackdown, probably Smackdown.

[grover]

He's minor leauges at best so he'll do fine getting better on the mic and in the ring in ECW. Rene Dupree looks like he will be a holarios obnoxious heel.

I can see why the moved the ECW PPV to December, because Novermber is Survivor Series territory, and they don't want fans to decide between the two, when they can get both.

[$heriff Tom]

Look, Striker is a "friend of the family" and all, but no one takes him seriously. And from what I read from the insiders, he sucks in the ring. I have not seen him in long enough matches to get a guage on that. He has a natural persona and wit, but he is not all that big, he certainly intimidates no one, and for now he is pigeonholed in the Simon Dean/Eugene purgatory of the midcard comedy act.

[MSBNYY]

Maybe all of the above is true, but he still doesn't seem like a fit in ECW, unless they do SOMETHING to change his character. Paul E. is very good at making characters, but if he's a figurehead, I doubt that will help.

[$heriff Tom]

Balls, he is what he is - a midcard jobber guy. Hes a guy they are going to use to lose to Balls Mahoney and Sabu on TV. Thats all they are looking for out of him, but if he can provide a chuckle or two on the way to that, they will be all the more happy. He certainly was stuck in neutral on Raw. Look, I like him to, but dont expect him to be battling for any belts anytime soon.

[MSBNYY]

I understand, but even in that midcard role, ECW doesn't seem like a right fit for that character. Obviously, he can play that role anywhere.

He can be very entertaining if they let him, even in the midcard role. Makes me wonder if he could ever become a manager or an announcer. A Jonathan Coachman type.

[cactusjames]

Yeah I'm not a fan of the Striker thing either. I love how the character pisses everyone off, but in NY or Philly he's going to get heckled badly, no pun intended.

As for the rest of ECW, love it. I agree, the two hour show needs to come. I know ECW is signed for the fall lineup on scifi, the ppv is coming up, it only makes sense. For an hour, it's the most entertaining show on, two hours would only make it better and showcase more guys. I also thing and have been saying this for awhile now, they need the TV and Tag Ttiles. 3 bets, have one defended every week, it'd create one thing Raw and Smackdwon do not have, prestige in the titles. There'd only be 3, you'd see one title match a week, maybe a number 1 cntenders, it would really help I think.

And I like Holly in ECW, he works stiff, perfect for ECW. But the whole Hardcore Holly has to go. hardcore was a concept created a long time ago and when it got killed by ECW and WWE he should have ended there. No, they stick it on some Alabama trailer park trash hillbilly fuckhead. But, they can't and aren't going to change it now. And honestly, is anyone really looking foward to a RVD/Holly feud?

[MSBNYY]

I don't know. It sounds like this is a tailor made gimmick for Holly. His hardcore character was a counter in part to ECW's existence. Now, ECW is back and at least in theory, is the home of hardcore. It's a natural place for the character. Not that the redneck thing wouldn't work.

[cactusjames]

It is, but matches with no rules are Extreme matches, even Styles back in the day would say this is hardcore. And Paul E will be the first to say Hardcore is dead, I like the stiffness of Holly, he is a rough and tough guy, just going back to Bob Holly wouldn.t be that bad cause you still know who the guy is. And again, RVD Holly feud isn't going to be a good one. Where is Jerry Lynn when you need him?

[$heriff Tom]

Jerry Lynn is actually help book the X-Division on TNA TV. He is also a physical wreck from his antics in the ring. Hell, I remember him doing flips to the floor in friggin' 1990 against "The Lightning Kid" aka X-Pac, among other monickers.

[cactusjames]

It's too bad, I'd love to see one more RVD Jerry Lynn 5 star classic.

[sancho231]

ehh.. those RVD/Lynn Battles were good but i felt it looked a little too Cherographed, like they were dancing or something. as for the ECW TV shows i havent seen a full show in weeksI ve been relying on the ECW.com recaps.my only real beef with WWECW is the whole "Extreme rules" i mean shouldnt every match be extreme in ECW? Holly has even less Charsima than RVD. matt striker is a very nice guy who i met at the Doghouse but this teacher gimmick is played the fuck out,either have him bring it to SD! or get a new gimmick.

[cactusjames]

I like the Extreme Rules matches, especially if you see how they are booking Sabu around it. It's very similar to the old over the top DQ rule. In old ECW the inconcistency of the refs added to the fact after a while it lost that special match atmosphere because you always expected a flaming table. If that got old what do you do next? Add thumbtacks? K great now what? Barbed Wire? Fine, next? UMMM nothing. With the "Extreme Rules" stip it gives whatever match it is the big match feel.

Tht said, I think every match at ECW PPVs should all be Extreme Rules.

Or you can read Tom's condensed version below.

[$heriff Tom]

I am glad that not every match is "Extreme rules." So are a heap of folks. If every match could involve chairs, double-teams, or barbed wire baseball bats, it would not be special when these things were pulled out. You got to remember that ECW was never more than a niche promotion. For everyone who loves 'Hardcore Rules' there are even more that get tired of every single match being a schmazz like that.

Too much garbage wrestling.

[globix]

tomorrow night's main event has McMahon fingerprints all over it. Sabu Vs. paul heyman, in an extreme rules match

[$heriff Tom]

Well, if its "Extreme Rules" interference is legal, so it would be HHH, his henchman, and Hardcore Holly and maybe some other schmoes vs. Sabu. This said, I am hearing other reports now that they will simply be having a "debate" of sorts and not a physical battle...at least to start.

[grover]

That would drive a ton of viewers to change the channel.

[cactusjames]

I don't see HHH on ECW even for a night.

[$heriff Tom]

That was an error, fellas. I meant to say "Heyman."

[grover]

I knew what you meant, I still think a debate of sorts would be retarded.

[cactusjames]

LOL what threw me off was henchman, which I thought meant HBK.

I hope they plan on introducing some MMA guys or crusierweights Heyman was pushing Vince to get under contract. I think the main problem is the lack of depth to the roster. Yeah Sabu barley talks, but Heyman is awesome on the mic so I don't see a debate being too bad which of course will lead to a fight and a gang attack on Sabu but I think seeing Heymna in a match would be worse.

Also, Dreamer won last week, how bad will he get his ass kicked tonight?

[$heriff Tom]

There really are not depth problems. They only have an hour a week to fill. They just bought in Holly, Striker and Shannon Moore has yet to wrestle. There are still old mainstays like Snow, Anderson, Richards, Credible, and the like. New talents like Thorn, Punk, and Knox. Old hands like Sandman, Dreamer, Sabu, RVD, Balls. The champ, The Big Show. They have enough talent right now and I dont really care to see a revamping of styles into an MMA mishmash. If I want to watch that stuff, I know where to find it.

I would rather they bring in some more young talented WRESTLERS out of Deep South and OVW.

[grover]

I mentioned to Tom they should bring the Bashams over, and they have as Heyman's guards. I think they should create a new Dangerous Alliance of sorts, and let the Basham's wrestle.

[cactusjames]

But see a lot of it is to WWEs booking. And I know that's never going to change but with someone like Jeff Hardy and his moveset, it doesn't feel like I've seen this before, or at least not in a while. And Tom you say they have an hour to fill, are they going to fill a 2+ hour ppv with just the giys they have now, wrestling all the same style match maybe with a table or chair mixed in? I think have the different styles is what made ECW better than everyone else and in my mind if they want to have ppvs and someday upgrade to a 2 hour weekly show, they need more than just guys who were filler on Raw and Smackdown.

[$heriff Tom]

James, you are wrong. The ratings are very strong for the ECW product as it is. And WWE promotion or no, people are tuning in, and tuning in AGAIN. They are not losing viewers. And why couldnt they fill a PPV with NORMAL WRESTLING. Those kinds of PPVs have been selling for years. And ECW is going to get what, 2 PPVs a year or something? I am sure they can fill it.

You keep talking about how people want what ECW used to offer, forgetting that style never got them TV ratings, and ultimately saw the company go out of business.

Vince knows what he is doing. If Paul E is smart, he should listen to him as to how to do things, and maybe he wont be the captain of a sinking ship again.

[grover]

And if Paul E. actually paid his guys on time, and ECW was still going, it would eventually turn into a WWE/WCW type product.

Jerry Lynn is gone, Lance Storm is gone, Justin Credible is stale, Sandman can't wrestle, Dreamer is ok, the dudleys are stale in TNA, Shane Douglas is old and fat and Tas is just fat. Who's left? RVD doing well and Rhino doing well on TNA. Sabu is Sabu, and he blows more spots than you can shake a stick at.

I could give a shit when the old ECW crowd wanted. I stood in line with that crowd many times, and I hated almost all of them, and while they made things more fun, talking wrestling to them was annyoing, because they were anti-everything for the sake of being indy. They cheared RVD and Sabu, and made fun of Nirto and RAW, but they forgot that both of them were on those shows at one time or antoher, but that was ok.

Old ECW fans actually complained that Al Snow was jobbed. I mean, are you fucking kidding?

[cactusjames]

I''m not saying bring back the old way, but I'm sorry having all the crusierweights, the shootstyle wrestlers, that makes for so much more beter wrestling and TV. I know they have strong ratings, I'm a small reason they do, but Guido doesn't have to job in a squash match every week. Him and Tajiri were awesome in the ring. Justin Credible pulled out a good match doing the job to Punk, he couldn't get a little more TV time or higher profile matches? Syevie Richards is damn good and he gets a two minute match on SNME and what else? CW Anderson looked good against Punk he could be wrestling more. I'm not saying tonight I want to see all thse guys, but somewhere down the road this formula won't last forever, in which case Vince will close it own instead of expaning. Cause fuck everything else, ECW didn't get over years ago cause they didn't have the moiney, even with Vince backing Paul E, Now, they have all the money backing they need, and sooner rather than later they will NEED more than what we have. Fine keep bringing up guys from OVW and such, I was sayn that before the first TV episode. I just have a feeling if they stay with this approach to ECW maybe a year, year and a half. It's going to lose it's steam.

[grover]

Sure it will last forver, because this formula is what made Vince practically take over the wrestling world. TNA is running a fed with an emphasis with wrestling coming first, and they took years to gt a second hour, and are still a long way off at being a legit #2.