The Giants Thread

[cactusjames]

So the only requirement is to proclaim your team a NY team and it's so? They play football near 6 Flags, that's not NY. I agree the Bills are no where close to NYC, but they're more a NY team than the Jets and Giants.

[grover]

So then why didn't you root for the fucking Bills? If it's not a big deal that the Dallas Cowboys are not a NY team, then the Giants and Jets not playing in New York shouldn't be much of a problem right?

Unwritten sports rules 101: You are born into the team that play in and represent your city or the closest possible team.

Yeah, no one says this and no one says that, but what they do say is that the Giants kicked the shit out of the Cowboys and the Patriots, and are Superbowl champs, and you guys have Wade Phillips as you head coach, Romo got hot piss down his back from the Giants D, and TO was sobbing like a faggot. I'm going to call them the 'Beat The Cowboys In the Playoffs Like the Faggots They Are Giants'

LOL!! LOLOL! LOLOLOLOL!

And Justin, Jets fans ditching tickets have more to do with Jets fans being losers then the move, and that move was the best thing that happened to you because you hitched your wagon to a classy franchise like the Broncos instead of sunken ship like the Jets.

[MSBNYY]

James--it's more than that of course. You make it sound like the Giants and Jets have no history in NYC. Of course they do. And sure, the Bills are a NY State team. But the Giants are a NYC team, even if they play in the Meadowlands. No one other than haters and a few people from Jersey even try to make that argument.

I agree with Grover's rule 101. When I started following football, the Bears and 49ers were the heavyweights. But my team was either going to be the Giants or Jets. I was a sophomore in high school at the time, and knew that this was a lifelong decision.

[MSBNYY]

Here's a question--they keep talking about how Tyree's catch was one of the all time greatest catches ever. Given the game and the sheer impossibility of hanging on to that ball, it's hard to argue. They compared it to two other catches--Lynn Swann's catch in Super Bowl X (I think), and Dwight Clark's catch in the NFC championship game in 1982.

The Swann catch was different, but incredible. I can see the comparison. But what was so spectacular about the Clark catch? I saw it on Youtube and it just looked like a decent touchdown catch to me. Nothing even close to what Tyree did.

[jwmcc]

Not sure if you just saw the normal TV angle of that Clark catch, but if you get a look at the low sideline angle, you see how high he had to leap and just grabbing it and getting both feet in. Plus that was the beginning of the Montana legend considering that catch got them to the Superbowl.

That said the Tyree catch you can put it on the same level with Swann easily.
Jw

[MSBNYY]

Maybe it was the angle. But it just looked like a solid, but fairly normal catch. Even with your description I saw catches that required sick athleticism to get both feet in bounds throughout this playoff run alone.

It was a good catch no doubt. And obviously, the fact that it was a TD to get a team to the Super Bowl adds to it. And no doubt the Montana legend is what it is. But I just can't compare that to what I saw with Swann and Tyree. Those plays were miraculous.

Maybe I just need to see a higher quality version.

[Chris]

My two cents:

I don't recall the game situation with the Lynn Swann catch. Was the game in serious jeopardy of being lost for the Steelers at the time? Did that catch turn things around drastically for the Steelers?

The Dwight Clark catch was an NFC Championship clinching play, not a SUPER BOWL championship clinching play.

[IronHorse4]

Even more amazing about that Swann catch was Bradshaw being able to get that play off. Swann made some spectacular catches in Super Bowls. In my opinion, that's how he made the Hall of Fame. But Bradshaw gets pummeled to the point where he got helped off the field into the dressing room.

And while that ended up being the winning touchdown, it didn't put the Steelers in the lead. It was a 3rd down play in their own territory, but the Steelers did have the Steel Curtain defense, and they were the defending Super Bowl champs at the time. Then again, Staubach marched the Cowboys right back down the field for a score anyway.

I think the Tyree play was better than the Swann SB X play.

And that Dwight Clark catch was amazing. But I always get a chuckle about how that got the Montana legend going, seeing as how Montana was just trying to get rid of the ball to set up 4th down.

[MSBNYY]

It must be the quality and angle I saw on Youtube. It couldn't possibly be considered such a legendary catch if it was anything but.

Would you go as far as to say that the Tyree catch was the greatest catch in Super Bowl history?

What was so interesting was that just like Bradshaw, Eli was nearly sacked. Had he gone down, it would have been something ridiculous like 4th and 15. Getting out of that sack was almost as impressive as the catch.

[9]

It is impossible to walk one block in Manhattan right now without seeing someone decked out in Giants garb.

[Chris]

"It is impossible to walk one block in Manhattan right now without seeing someone decked out in Giants garb."

Again, I'll say, "Can we get a fuckin' World Series win around here??"

[Chris]

Justin - I heard an interesting take on Bradshaw. Some claim that because he's such a character, a doofus of sorts, that he doesn't get discussed in the All-Time Greatest arguments with "serious" people like Montana, Brady, and others.

[$heriff Tom]

LOL @ "a doofus of sorts."

Hey, ever see Johnny Unitas? Cornpone to the hilt. What a goofball.

[Chris]

I don't know if Johnny Unitas has ever cried on Jay Leno and appeared bottomless in romantic comedy!

[IronHorse4]

Part of the reason is that he is so nuts that he basically shunned the City of Pittsburgh after his retirement. Then again, they used to boo the shit out of him anyway. This may sound ridiculous, but Terry Bradshaw is about as tragic a figure (for a 4-time Super Bowl champ) as they come in football.

But he's easily one of the greatest quarterbacks ever, and he should be thought of that way.

[Bad Mouth Larry]

james. i think the bigger picture here is where the roots were started.

if the jets or giants were an expansion team, housed in nj, but called ny, i think youd have a point. but both teams have a ny base. ny was their name AND THIER HOME at the beginning, and for many years to follow. a move 5 miles outside of ny state is not enough to end that.

thats my opinion. of course they are ny teams and should be celebrated in this great city.

the devils have never had an affiliation to ny. hence, they are a jersey team.

the nets had an affilaition here. then went to nj BUT changed their name to NJ Nets. if the jets/giants did that youd have a point.

the roots are ny. they play 5 mins. outside ny. they are still ny. comprende?

[Chris]

Heard a funny quote about Eli yesterday on The Dan Patrick show.

"This basically guarantees that we won't get booed in the pre-season."

[Chris]

Seeing Peyton in a suite, cheering his brother on made me think of Brett Boone sitting in the booth in Game 7 2003 ALCS.

For the brother of a light-hitting 3rd baseman who just hit one of the most historical HRs in baseball history, he was disturbingly nonchalant.

Then again, as I said to someone this morning, maybe Peyton, unlike Brett Boone, is not a DOUCHEBAG!

[9]

Wasn't Bret Boone part of the Fox crew calling the game? If he was, then he obviously couldn't start jumping up and down.

[Chris]

He was part of the Fox crew, but I think (if I remember correctly) he was more of a guest....not sure if he was in the booth the whole game.

But come on...I'm sure national baseball fans would give a big brother a pass on cheering for his little brother who just hit one of the biggest homeruns ever?!?!??!

[$heriff Tom]

Eh, it would have looked stupid. He was not a teammate, leave that garbage behind the door. Its akin to "no cheering in the pressbox." Why are we even discussing something so trivial? Unless I wore the same uniform I am not going to be shown on screen jumping up and down like a tard for my BROTHER - there's a time and a place for those accolades, and its personal.

I think he did right not to make an ass of himself, thats now why he was there.

[Chris]

So you're saying that Peyton DID make an ass of himself, for he was cheering and jumping up and down, and last I checked the color of his uniform is a slightly different shade of blue.

BTW Tom, I've heard that complain from you before, and I will dare to ask...if an Internet message board is not a place to discuss thing trivial, then what is?

[MSBNYY]

Peyton did not make a fool of himself at all.

[Chris]

I don't think so either.

[grover]

I'd like to thank Justin and Balls for getting this thread back to football talk.

Seriously, what some are calling one of the, possible THEE greatest Superbowl ever, and the talk here is about how the Giants play in Jersey.

[Jackass]

Didn't see this mentioned in this thread and thought it somewhat humerous in a fuck you New England/Boston sort of way:

www.rbk.com/us/perfectville/

I don't follow football anymore (after the Rams left LA, I said fuck this shit) but I really enjoyed the only football game I watched this season because I love seeing Boston fans disappointed.

Long ago, the legendary Don Franscisco once said he didn't like seeing the Chicago Bears win because he knew that it would probably make at least one Bulls fan happy.

I feel the same way about anything that makes a Sux fan happy. I hate them so much that I'm constantly cheering for any news of misfortune that befalls Boston, based upon the knowledge that it most likely makes at least one Ded Sux fan miserable.

Cheers to you, New York Football Giants.

[MSBNYY]

That Perfectville commercial rocked. I read on the other board the discussion on whether they felt Super Bowl XXV or this game was better. That's a great question. I can see why a lot of people, especially fans who might have been just kids in XXV, would say this one. I can also see why people who were adults at the time would say this one too.

On the heels of such a dramatic victory, and such an overwhelming opponent, I can't really argue with saying this game was better. But for me, I still go with XXV.

I think there are a couple reasons I say that. First, I was following football far more religiously then. Second, I was in Lancaster PA, at a college that was split between Eagles and Giants fans. At the time, the Eagles just kept beating the Giants, no matter how good they were. Imagine going to school surrounded by Red Sox fans, and having to deal with their shit when the Red Sox beat the Yanks.

Even that year, the Eagles spoiled the Giants undefeated season. And yes, the Eagles fans were every bit as annoying as Red Sox fans, and at the time, my hatred for the Eagles festered and grew while my loyalty to the Giants grew too.

I watched Super Bowl XXV with another Giants fan, away from Eagles fans, but still in a charged area. And that game was a bigger emotional ride than even this one. The Giants were the underdogs that year too, though not by as much as this year.

The Giants seemed to work and work and work for every yard, and while they managed to score, the Bills would come back, and match them with like 5 plays and 2 minutes.

The way that game ended, with the Norwood kick, was one of the most intense couple of minutes I remember seeing in a football game. When the kick sailed wide, the relief and celebration was just unbelievable. Not only did the Giants win the Super Bowl (at a time when the Giants were the only team of mine to ever run the table), but I had the last laugh on all those Eagles fans.

This Super Bowl was different. There are a lot of reasons it was a better victory. Someone on the other board mentioned something about how while the Bills were a great team, these Patriots were on the verge of being crowned the greatest team ever. Fair argument.

I can accept that these Patriots were better than those Bills. Hard to really say that since they can't play each other, but given the 18-0 thing, it's hard to argue.

I can't prove it, but I believe that this Giants team was not as good as the team that won Super Bowl XXV. I think they jumped to a higher level after that loss to the Patriots, but I think the other two champion teams were better than this one.

And if that's true, then this Giants win is easily more impressive. They beat a better team, with less. The defense just stepped up to another level on Sunday. It was a bigger upset than XXV. Easily.

They turned these Patriots into the 2001 Mariners and 1954 Indians.

But for me, nothing can top XXV. That said, this game was about as close as a game can get.

[IronHorse4]

And I can understand that. But it wasn't about which game made you feel better, or which game meant more to you. I can't speak to that as a non-Giant fan (and someone who was, quite frankly, rooting against the Giants in XXV).

My question regarded the magnitude of the game in the entire history of the Giants.

Still, it is somewhat of a subjective question, so I don't think there's a wrong answer.

[MSBNYY]

It's such a hard question to answer. Magnitude of the game has several meanings. Obviously, no game has more importance than the Super Bowl. I saw you mention some games that happened well before I was born. I will always support the Giants and only the Giants, but I will never reach the level I am with the Yankees. So the history of the franchise, while something I can appreciate, will never mean as much to me. That pretty much eliminates me from considering any big moment before Super Bowl XXI, because I wasn't following football. I would just have to take the word of other Giants fans, which is fine.

I don't know if I would call this the biggest win in franchise history but I can easily call it the most monumental. I don't why, but while I felt that the odds were against the Giants, I also just had this feeling I couldn't shake that they could do it. I guess that came from the fact that they played the Patriots so well in Week 17. It showed that yes, the Patriots can be beaten by the Giants. It was not impossible. Without a spread, I wouldn't have bet on it, but the idea of an upset happening wasn't that out of the question.

The question is a really tough one. This game was definitely a bigger upset, but does a bigger upset count as a bigger win? I suppose it could.

Super Bowl XXV was an even more exciting game for me. And that's saying a lot. This game held at 7-3 for a very long time.

3-0 Giants--held for the first quarter
7-3 Pats--until the FOURTH quarter
10-7--Giants--
14-10 Pats
17-14 Giants.

Nice see saw, but the magic was through one quarter. Brilliant, but compare to Super Bowl XXV:

First Quarter:

NYG--3-0
Buf-- 3-3

Second quarter

10-3 BUF
12-3 BUF (safety)
12-10 after Giants last second TD. (25 seconds left in the half)

3rd Quarter

17-12 NYG-- TD

4th Q:

19-17 BUF

20-19 Giants

And then of course, the missed field goal as time ran out.

It's hard to imagine a more exciting game than XLII, but XXV accomplished that--at least in my opinion.

It's a great topic, because like you said, there is no wrong answer.

[IronHorse4]

The problem is also comparing different eras. Which, of course, you have to do if discussing the best ever. It could be said that the biggest win in Giants history was the win over the Notre Dame All-Star team back in the early 30s. Pro football was though of as a joke until the Giants, who more than did their part to perpetuate that stigma (despite their win in '27), basically bought another team for its star player and then thumped Notre Dame. Seems silly now, but pros beating Notre Dame was a big deal back then. The Pottsville Maroons did it in 1925, but it just didn't happen that often. But that win seemed to springboard the Giants into the elite in the NFL (read: Chicago Bears), culminating in the '34 championship win. It's interesting stuff.

In my mind the only argument is this win vs. some of those old wins. And that's only Giants' history, because, as we all know, the two biggest games in NFL history in terms of magnitude were a Giants loss and a Jets' win. But this has to be bigger than the XXV win and the XXI win, if only because the Broncos and Bills became punching bags for the NFC during those times, while the Patriots were the unstoppable team.