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Post by nobeernofun on Oct 1, 2007 16:19:04 GMT -5
So who gets the M.V.P. , CY Yong & R.O.Y.
The A.L. M.V.P. is a lay up with ARod taking it all the way. I give the A.L. CY to Josh Beckett with his 20 wins . John Lackey with 19 wins & a leage best 3.01 era & 224 ip's is close but one win short . The A.L. ROY go's to Dustin Pedroia with a 317 BA. seeing as B.J. Upton played 50 games last year & is not in the running this year , right ? Now the N.L. M.V.P. I give it to Matt Holliday with a 340 ba 36 hr's & 135 r.b.i's Prince Fielder with 50 h.r's is close & his team did not get to the big dance. The N.L. CY has to go to Jake Peavy with 19 win's a 2.36 e.r.a. & 234 k's it's a no brainer . the N.L. ROY is Ryan Braun ha had a much better year then Troy Tulowitzki . Those are my votes whats yours ?
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Post by Domi on Oct 1, 2007 17:07:55 GMT -5
Sabathia for AL Cy Young, otherwise I agree.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 1, 2007 18:24:45 GMT -5
Jimmy Rollins is the NL MVP.
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Post by Jackass on Oct 1, 2007 19:00:20 GMT -5
I agree with Sabathia as the AL CY.
No doubt about Rollins.
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Post by Domi on Oct 1, 2007 19:12:56 GMT -5
Holliday has better numbers in every category besides 3B and SB.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 1, 2007 19:20:51 GMT -5
Sabathia v. Beckett is a pickem. Sabathia has a slightly better ERA, 4 more starts, a few more Ks, and 1 less win. He does seem to best Beckett in every category except that 1 win and he hit 3 more batters.
Lackey has 2 more losses and less Ks.
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Post by Jackass on Oct 2, 2007 4:28:28 GMT -5
I think Beckett shows up in the top 5 in only one or two pitching categories (wins being the big one he tops).
What pushes Sabathia to the top for me is the 241 innings, and 4 complete games.
Beckett had 200 innings and 1 CG.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 2, 2007 6:19:43 GMT -5
It's very close. I would vote for Sabathia too, but you never know what that 1 win could do for Beckett. 20 games is a magic number and he's the only one to do it. I think Sabathia tops Beckett in almost every category though.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 2, 2007 7:33:41 GMT -5
Holliday is also an outfielder, and Rollins a shortstop. Rollins totally willed his team to win, and for you guys who love to talk "intangibles" - well, his picture is in the dictionary next to the word. If you discount what he did, Derek Jeter's name should also never be mentioned in any MVP talk. Its not just about straight numbers - some of you 'baseball fans' should know that.
I give Beckett the nod over Sabathia, but would not argue with either pick, nor would I be shocked if John Lackey makes some noise. He really came into his own this year and became more the horse he is expected to be.
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Post by Domi on Oct 2, 2007 8:03:15 GMT -5
Holliday is also an outfielder, and Rollins a shortstop. Yeah, I took that into consideration. Holliday still comes out on top. Rollins totally willed his team to win, and for you guys who love to talk "intangibles" - well, his picture is in the dictionary next to the word. I'm totally not someone who likes to talk "intangibles". And Rollins may have "willed his team to win" (moreso than anyone else? Hardly provable), but Holliday scored the run that got his team into the playoffs. So irrelevant voting factors are now a wash. If you discount what he did, Derek Jeter's name should also never be mentioned in any MVP talk. Its not just about straight numbers - some of you 'baseball fans' should know that. It's obviously not about straight numbers - otherwise, Jeter would have won last year like he should have.
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Post by jwmcc on Oct 2, 2007 8:13:54 GMT -5
but Holliday scored the run that got his team into the playoffs Well, if we're going to break it down to what the two players did on the last day to get their teams in the playoffs: Holliday did have a few hits, but if he hadn't totally pulled a Melky on that fly ball in the 8th, the dramatics in the 13th may have been totally un-necessary. And who the fuck slides into home head first? Rollins had a few hits including a RBI triple, and stole two bases in the bottom of the first setting up the first run. Jw
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Post by Domi on Oct 2, 2007 8:21:56 GMT -5
Well, if we're going to break it down to what the two players did on the last day to get their teams in the playoffs: No, we're not going to do that, since that's about as poor a criterium as "willed his team".
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Post by Jason Giambi on Oct 2, 2007 9:07:40 GMT -5
is criterium a real word? If so, then good word.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 2, 2007 9:09:10 GMT -5
is criterium a real word? If so, then good word
Yes, it is. I have used it on here many times before.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Oct 2, 2007 9:20:05 GMT -5
So he's a copycat? Well, excellent word choice, both of you.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 2, 2007 9:24:58 GMT -5
So he's a copycat? Well, excellent word choice, both of you.
Yes, in this instance he does indeed meet the criteria.
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Post by mac0822 on Oct 2, 2007 10:48:47 GMT -5
Of course most of you will "go with CC over Beckett". How could you say the best pitcher on the best team in the league should win it? That would be just crazy...
Oh ya....He pitches for Boston. My bad.
I'd also go with Rollins over Holliday.
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Post by Domi on Oct 2, 2007 11:02:18 GMT -5
How could you say the best pitcher on the best team in the league should win it? More irrelevent criteria. I love this thread.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 2, 2007 12:05:42 GMT -5
How can you say Boston is the best team in the league? Cleveland had the same record. Obviously that's not the only criteria, but it's the basic one.
I also don't think that being on a good team doesn't really matter for Cy Young purposes. MVP? Yes. How can you be valuable if your team sucks?
But Cy Young is about the best PITCHER in the league.
Sabathia and Beckett have VERY similar numbers. But as close as they are, Sabathia nips Beckett in every category except wins.
I wouldn't cry foul if Beckett got it by any stretch. He had a Cy Young quality season. But is one win enough to really make the difference?
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Post by mac0822 on Oct 2, 2007 12:25:09 GMT -5
MSB..
Boston was the best team in the league, just as NY won the AL East in 2005. Same fucking thing. Are you going to argue that NY was the AL East champ in 2005, but Boston was not the best in the league this year?
I also factor Beckett having to face the Yankees a bunch this year into the equation. If CC had to face them as often, the difference in ERA between two would not exist.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 2, 2007 12:31:43 GMT -5
I agree with Mac, and thats why Beckett gets my nod for Cy, although I would like to see Lackey get it.
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 2, 2007 12:33:40 GMT -5
If you mean that Boston wins the tiebreaker in head to head play, I'll give you that no doubt. And for seeding purposes, Boston deserves to be the top seed.
But I don't know if I would factor that in for individual awards.
I think it's a fairly safe bet that if he didn't face the Yankees, Beckett definitely would have had a lower ERA than Sabathia. The Yankees did well against Beckett. Until his last start, his ERA against the Yanks was 5.49. Including that last start, it was 4.39. They hit him pretty well for the most part.
Of course it's also possible that if Sabathia faced the Yanks, he would have pitched lights out, as tends to happen with good pitchers. Thing is, that's a tough one to factor in.
Beckett also had several starts against TB. You can counter that with the Royals for Sabathia.
It's a very close pickem. The numbers just favor Sabathia slightly. I will say this--I'd rather the Yanks face Beckett in the playoffs than Sabathia. At least I know they HAVE hit him this year.
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Post by Domi on Oct 2, 2007 12:37:35 GMT -5
So Brandon Webb for NL Cy Young then, Mac?
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Post by mac0822 on Oct 2, 2007 12:53:31 GMT -5
I never really said Beckett is hands down the winner, but everyone is sucking off CC like he's the winner. If Beckett didn't wear red, it would be a different story.
No, Peavy is the clear winner. Look at his ERA. Game over. It's not close - unlike the AL.
MSB - you started to argue that Boston was tied for the best in the AL, but I smashed your jaw in 50 pieces when I reminded you of the "Rules are rules" lines you gave when I said Boston should be "co AL East champs" in 2005. I noticed your tune changed instantly.
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Post by mac0822 on Oct 2, 2007 12:54:24 GMT -5
ALso, is Tampa's offense worse than KC's? Shit, their offense is actually pretty fucking good. It's their pitching that makes them terrible.
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Post by Jason Giambi on Oct 2, 2007 12:56:35 GMT -5
Mac, now you know he will argue that KC's offense is better.
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Post by Domi on Oct 2, 2007 12:57:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't discount the fact that Detroit has the 2nd best offense in the league...
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Post by mac0822 on Oct 2, 2007 13:02:58 GMT -5
I guess "who you face" isn't the strongest argument. I am just pointing out that you fucks are anti Beckett because he's on the Sox. It's all good though - I know in the back of my mind - I'm just in denial - that Carl Pavano should have won the CY last season.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Oct 2, 2007 13:23:29 GMT -5
Mac--you're not exactly right. Different situations. Nowhere did I say that Boston didn't deserve top seed. Rules ARE rules. I'm just saying that it's hard to automatically determine Boston to be the best team in reality. That technicality exists for seeding purposes.
For the purpose of an individual award, you can't really say that legitimately, and I know you know that.
You would have a better argument if the Yanks tied Boston, but Boston won the season series, and the Yanks got the wildcard because of it. Then it would be identical.
As for being anti-Beckett because he's on the Sox, I don't see that at all from anyone.
Not that I wouldn't be happy as hell for it not to go to Beckett for the sole reason he's on the Sox, but Sabathia legitimately bests him in every stat except wins. It wouldn't be a crime against humanity if it goes to Beckett, but it's hard to justify.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Oct 2, 2007 13:25:44 GMT -5
You know whats funny? Balls says all this, but if Wang did not crap the bed the last few weeks and fall a peg behind Beckett, HE would have been the Cy Young pick by Balls and probably a couple of others on this board. Give Wang the same number of wins and similar breakdown in stats as Beckett today, and Sabathia's name would not even be mentioned right now by these guys.
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