$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 13, 2007 15:55:07 GMT -5
Wang is savagely overrated. And a number of you who back him are the ones who trip over one another talking about how "wins" are overrated. So take away Wang's 19 wins and you have a middle of the rotation starter.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 13, 2007 16:01:46 GMT -5
I'm not shocked. Boston & NY guys seem to get "hated" on come awards time.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 13, 2007 16:02:43 GMT -5
Eh, I dont know about that....check the ledger, they have won their fair share of awards.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 13, 2007 16:16:22 GMT -5
Morneau over Jeter last year?
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 13, 2007 16:21:39 GMT -5
I think it's more NY guys being hated, given some of the ridiculous choices made. Boston has done pretty well. Like I said, this isn't a ripoff. Had Beckett got the award, I wouldn't have complained. It was a close call, but I think it went the right way.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 14, 2007 8:36:51 GMT -5
I agree, it's mostly NY. However - now that Boston is the BIG SHOW, they are now the winner that everyone hates. NY is pretty much a non factor now - hell, they are a pretty likeable team now that ARod is gone.
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Post by thecaptain15 on Nov 14, 2007 8:42:54 GMT -5
NY is pretty much a non factor now
That is a bit of an exaggeration......
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Post by Jason Giambi on Nov 14, 2007 8:49:18 GMT -5
I agree, it's mostly NY. However - now that Boston is the BIG SHOW, they are now the winner that everyone hates. NY is pretty much a non factor now - hell, they are a pretty likeable team now that ARod is gone. Yes, the sux have become the Yankees that everyone hates, it's quite funny.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 14, 2007 9:08:46 GMT -5
Add on the fact that the Patriots are unstoppable and the Celts are all-of-a-sudden awesome, and Boston has become the very thing that they have railed on against. They have become New York. Except they're uglier.
At least New Yorkers were always arrogant, win or lose. Boston fans have simply become hypocrites.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 14, 2007 9:16:32 GMT -5
WOW do the C's look good. I have to admit, I haven't been to a game in 2 years, but I may this year.
As far as Beckett - he became the first 20 game winner in 2 years in only 30 starts. He was the ACE on the best team in MLB. I'm not sure what else he could have done.
The only thing that makes me smile is how stupid they (writers) look now that Beckett dominated in the Postseason & CC sucked cock every start. CC isn't in Beckett's league.
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Post by IronHorse4 on Nov 14, 2007 9:18:08 GMT -5
Celtics should win the East. Kevin McHale is still loyal to the green and white.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 14, 2007 9:23:53 GMT -5
No doubt - I certainly think he returned some favor to his old teammate on that one. I think he was told to deal KG because they sucked with or without him, but it looked like he only wanted to deal him to one place - Boston.
KG has always impressed me, but I love his defense now. I see them winning the East, but boy - they will have issues with San Antonio if they played them in the finals. Just imagine if Boston had a legit big man to go with that team. wow
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 14, 2007 10:22:36 GMT -5
LOL again at "hard where"
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 6, 2008 18:36:01 GMT -5
I had to bring this up, just to give another prop to Pops' thread title involving "hard where" So Carlos Pena wins a Gold Glove. Yeah, we went over the Gold Glove already, its a dopey sort of thing, unless a Yankee wins it. Then its gospel, apparently. Anyway, it was not too many years ago when Balls was ruing Carlos Pena being around the Yankees, as he was not a step above Giambi in any means, INCLUDING around the bag. Of course, at the time, I rightfully pointed out he is one of the slickest fielding first-sackers in the game. Very stupid that the Yankees had this guy in the system, and let him go for naught. www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=483314Rays-ing his profile: 1B Pena wins 1st Gold Glove NEW YORK (AP) -- Carlos Pena grabbed attention for all those balls he hit. Now the Tampa Bay first baseman and his teammates are getting noticed for the ones he caught.
Pena raised the Rays' profile Thursday when he become the first player in franchise history to win the Gold Glove for fielding excellence.
"I think this is the first of many for the Tampa Bay Rays," he said on a conference call.
"I feel like we all won the Gold Glove as a team," he added. "I think we all make each other better."
The Rays reached the playoffs for the first time since starting play in 1998. They went to the World Series, losing in five games to Philadelphia.
Texas shortstop Michael Young became the first infielder to win a Gold Glove from a team with the worst fielding percentage in the majors. Pena, Young, Boston second baseman Dustin Pedroia and Minnesota catcher Joe Mauer were first-time winners.
The outfield was a repeat from last season: Los Angeles' Torii Hunter and Seattle's Ichiro Suzuki each won for the eighth straight year and Cleveland's Grady Sizemore earned his second award.
New York Yankees pitcher Mike Mussina, coming off his first 20-win season, added to his accolades with his seventh Gold Glove. Seattle third baseman Adrian Beltre won for the second straight year.
Pena bounced around the majors for several seasons before joining Tampa Bay in 2007, and quickly got a regular spot by hitting 46 home runs.
Pena starred with the bat this year, too, with 31 homers and 102 RBIs despite missing 31/2 weeks because of a broken finger. He sparkled with the glove, making only two errors.
"I can't deny that I like hitting home runs," Pena said, but "this is an award I always thought of."
"You have no idea how excited I was when I received the news," he said. "Go steal a hit, go help your pitcher out. I've always taken so much pride in my defense."
The 30-year-old Pena has shown improvement in the field, cutting down from 13 errors with Detroit in 2003. He made eight last year with the Rays.
Pena said it had been his goal "to actually play like a Gold Glover and eventually get recognized."
Rawlings has presented Gold Gloves since 1957. Managers and coaches pick players in their own leagues near the end of the regular season, and can't vote for someone on their team.
Hunter has not made an error since Aug. 31, 2007. The AL outfield record for Gold Gloves is 10, shared by Ken Griffey Jr. and Al Kaline.
Pedroia, the AL Rookie of the Year last season, joined Kevin Youkilis (2007) and Jason Varitek (2005) as the only Red Sox players to win a Gold Glove in the last 17 seasons.
Young led AL shortstops in fielding percentage. This was his fifth season at the spot since switching over from second base.
The Gold Gloves often raise the ire of many baseball fans. Critics claim the best fielders are overlooked in favor of more popular players, and further insist that better hitters get a break in the voting.
Hunter and Sizemore earned $100,000 bonuses in their contracts for winning Gold Gloves. Beltre and Suzuki got $50,000 each and Pena, Mauer and Young won $25,000 apiece. Mussina and Pedroia did not have Gold Glove clauses.
The NL Gold Gloves were announced Wednesday. Winners were pitcher Greg Maddux, catcher Yadier Molina, first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, second baseman Brandon Phillips, shortstop Jimmy Rollins, third baseman David Wright and outfielders Nate McLouth, Carlos Beltran and Shane Victorino.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 6, 2008 18:37:38 GMT -5
Carlos Pena sucks, and since Raphael Palmeiro won the Gold Glove, the award isn't worth spit.
Pena had one fluke year at bat, and regressed this time. The last thing the Yankees would want is another Giambi like bat.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 6, 2008 18:45:21 GMT -5
The mere fact you used the same word - REGRESSED - that you use for that wastecase Melky Cabrera for Carlos Pena is an insult, and proves once again you know nothing about baseball.
Pena "regressed" so much he ended up with 32 home runs and drove in over 100. And, oh yeah, his team made the World Series. Ours didnt even make the playoffs.
I wish all our players had years so great they could regress like that.
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Post by 9 on Nov 6, 2008 21:45:57 GMT -5
I wish all our players had years so great they could regress like that. Sign me up for that, too.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 6, 2008 23:10:38 GMT -5
Maybe, but a fluke year is still a fluke year.
You're the only one who drank the Pena kool aid.
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Post by nobeernofun on Nov 9, 2008 23:01:28 GMT -5
I'm no fan of Carlos Pena. I just don't see it ? But I do hope The High Hard One's keep drafting him !!!
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Post by nobeernofun on Nov 9, 2008 23:43:07 GMT -5
So this years ROY looks like a no brainier. In the A.L. it has to be Evan Longoria. I do like Alexei Ramirez but Longoria had better #'s. the N.L. will go to SOTO. Who ells is their, Joey Votto ?
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 10, 2008 7:53:36 GMT -5
It's amazing how Longoria finds time to play baseball AND film Desperate Housewives.
HA!!!! I bet you never heard that one before!!!!
HA!!!!
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Post by 9 on Nov 10, 2008 9:49:14 GMT -5
Groan.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 10, 2008 11:22:02 GMT -5
Thank you very much. I'll be here all week. Try the fish.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 10, 2008 14:21:26 GMT -5
In decisions that surprise no one, your Rookies of the Year are indeed Longoria and Soto. From mlb.com...
Evan Longoria, the third baseman whose powerful bat keyed the Rays' remarkable turnaround season, and Cubs catcher Geovany Soto were named winners of their respective leagues' 2008 Jackie Robinson Rookie of the Year Awards.
Longoria, the unanimous American League selection of Baseball Writers Association of America voters, was honored for the 27 homers and 85 RBIs that followed his delayed addition to the Rays' lineup on April 12.
Soto was nearly as popular in the NL, after minding the critical defensive position for the Central division champs while putting up 23 homers and 86 RBIs.
Longoria, the first Rookie of the Year in Tampa Bay's 11-season history, also became the first third baseman to earn the award in the AL since his current Tampa Bay teammate Eric Hinske -- who played that position for Toronto and earned the honor in 2002.
Soto is the first Cubs player so honored since pitcher Kerry Wood won in 1998, and the first catcher to win since Mike Piazza was selected while playing for the Dodgers in 1993.
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Post by nobeernofun on Nov 11, 2008 11:14:04 GMT -5
So the N.L. CY goes to..... Tim Lincecum 18 & 5 with 265 K's for S.F. Webb had more wins @ 22 & 7. But TIMMY did it for SAN FRAN. come on now they SUCK when he's not on the mound, & I like the Damn Giants !!! C.C. did a great Job in Brew town Like Manny in L.A. , but not over a whole year. The A.L. CY has to go to Lee going 22 & 3 for the Tribe. so the 2008 Cy's will go to pitchers on losing teams. has that ever happen before ? I know Steve Carlton Did it for the Phill's in like 72 ?
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 11, 2008 18:26:09 GMT -5
Here's the piece from MLB.COM regarding the Lincecum Cy Young nod, along with some stats on other pitchers to nab it with a sub .500 club.
SAN FRANCISCO -- Isolating a peak performance among Tim Lincecum's 34 appearances in 2008 was impossible, given his sustained excellence.
"You can pick out gem after gem after gem," Giants right fielder Randy Winn said.
Lincecum's crowning moment finally came Tuesday. The Giants right-hander received the National League's Cy Young Award, emblematic of the league's best pitcher, in voting conducted by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.
Lincecum received 23 of 32 first-place votes, seven second-place votes and one third-place vote for 137 points, which were assigned on a 5-3-1 basis. He outdistanced Arizona's Brandon Webb (73 points), the New York Mets' Johan Santana (55), Philadelphia's Brad Lidge (10), Milwaukee's CC Sabathia (9) and the Chicago Cubs' Ryan Dempster (4).
The comfortable margin of victory surprised Lincecum.
"I thought it would be a lot closer. I was thinking more along the lines of Sabathia or Johan or Webb," he said, noting that those three are previous Cy Young winners.
Giants left-hander Jack Taschner suggested that Lincecum's efforts transcended all other factors: "We're a West Coast team, and East Coast reporters are probably in bed by the time we get into the third or fourth inning. But that's really all you need to see [of Lincecum]."
Lincecum became only the second Giant to capture the Cy Young, joining 1967 winner Mike McCormick, and the first second-year player to earn the distinction since right-handers Dwight Gooden of the Mets and Bret Saberhagen of Kansas City secured the 1985 awards in their respective leagues.
2008 NL Cy Young Award Voting
Pitcher, Club 1st 2nd 3rd Points Tim Lincecum, SF 23 7 1 137 Brandon Webb, ARI 4 15 8 73 Johan Santana, NYM 4 8 11 55 Brad Lidge, PHI 1 7 10 CC Sabathia, MIL 1 1 1 9 Ryan Dempster, CHC 4 4
At 24, Lincecum already has earned a place in Giants lore alongside Juan Marichal and Gaylord Perry, San Francisco's Hall of Fame right-handers. Marichal somehow never received a Cy Young first-place vote in his six 20-win seasons, and Perry twice won the award after leaving the Giants.
Despite Lincecum's sustained excellence, he faced formidable competition for the award. Santana's 2.53 ERA led the NL, Webb's 22 victories paced the league, Sabathia performed in otherworldly fashion after being traded from Cleveland (11-2, 1.65 ERA) and Lidge converted all 41 of his regular-season save opportunities.
But none of them matched Lincecum's overall dominance. He compiled a league-best .783 winning percentage with his 18-5 record and amassed 265 strikeouts to become the first Giant in baseball's modern era (since 1900) to earn that distinction. Against Lincecum, opponents hit .221 overall and .167 with runners in scoring position while averaging 7.22 hits per nine innings -- all league lows. And his 2.62 ERA was the NL's second best.
Lincecum acknowledged that among all his glittering statistics, those strikeouts shine the most.
"It's one of those things that kind of get me fired up," he said.
Tim Lincecum became just the 12th pitcher to win the Cy Young Award while pitching for a team with a sub-.500 record. Year Pitcher Team Team's Record Pitcher's Record
2008 Tim Lincecum Giants 72-90 18-5 2006 Brandon Webb D-backs 76-86 16-8 1997 Pedro Martinez Expos 78-84 17-8 1997 Roger Clemens Blue Jays 76-86 21-7 1996 Pat Hentgen Blue Jays 74-88 20-10 1987 Steve Bedrosian Phillies 80-82 5-3* 1987 Roger Clemens Red Sox 78-84 20-9 1979 Bruce Sutter Cubs 80-82 6-6* 1976 Randy Jones Padres 73-89 22-14 1972 Steve Carlton Phillies 59-97 27-10 1972 Gaylord Perry Indians 72-84 24-16 1970 Bob Gibson Cardinals 76-86 23-7 * Bedrosian had 40 saves in 1987. Sutter had 37 saves in 1979.
Lincecum's game-by-game progression defined consistency. His 26 quality starts ranked second in the league, two behind Santana. Never did he lose consecutive starts; only once did he allow four or more earned runs in back-to-back outings. As the Giants lurched to a fourth-place, 72-90 finish in the West, Lincecum rescued them from a harsher fate by posting a 14-3 mark with a 2.79 ERA in 25 games following losses.
That led to another measure of just how singular Lincecum's season was. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the .339 difference between his winning percentage and San Francisco's was the seventh-largest in Major League history among pitchers with at least 15 victories. He also became only the 12th Cy Young winner for a team with a below-.500 record.
As Lincecum built these credentials, his downplaying of Cy Young chatter remained as steady as his performance.
"I said this many times, my dad always taught me not to get too excited about the good things or the bad things," he said. "I wasn't going to get worked up over things I had no control over. It's not like I didn't care, but I wasn't going to put any added pressure on myself."
Lincecum cemented his Cy Young candidacy with a strong finish. He struck out 10 or more batters in six of his last 13 starts and yielded two or fewer runs in all but three of them. He pitched his two complete games, including a four-hit shutout at San Diego, in September. And in the season finale against Los Angeles, he recorded his first nine outs on strikeouts, becoming the first hurler to accomplish that feat since the Mets' Sid Fernandez on July 30, 1986.
Webb won 11 of his last 14 decisions. But while Lincecum surged, the D-backs ace dropped three starts in a row between Aug. 26-Sept. 6, allowing 19 earned runs in 13 2/3 innings.
Lincecum's triumph was a matter of style as well as substance. Despite his 5-foot-11, 170-pound physique, his long-striding, mechanically precise delivery enabled him to exceed 95 mph with his fastball routinely. He complemented his heat with a curveball, a slider and a changeup that proved to be perhaps his best pitch as the year lengthened.
"That's the thing that helped me out the most, to get more ground balls and strikeouts," Lincecum said of his changeup, explaining that finding a comfortable grip for the pitch gave the command he lacked with it as a rookie.
In his first full Major League season -- he made his Giants debut on May 6, 2007 -- Lincecum became one of the game's most charismatic performers. The native of Bellevue, Wash., was named to the NL All-Star team, appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated and won two pre-Cy Young elections as the league's top pitcher involving player voting (Players Choice and The Sporting News).
Each achievement silenced the skeptics a little more. Maybe Lincecum wasn't too small to thrive, as they claimed. Maybe his remarkable pitching motion wouldn't tax his arm after all.
"People have been doubting me my whole life, so it's nothing new," he said. "If they're want to doubt it, let them watch and see what the end result is."
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Post by 9 on Nov 11, 2008 19:39:00 GMT -5
I might have given the slight edge to Webb, but I certainly have no beef with Lincecum winning it. Not that this matters, but I expected more votes for Sabbathia and fewer for Santana.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 11, 2008 19:56:39 GMT -5
My pick would have been Lincecum. Even just reading the numbers in the story above, it seems clear to me.
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Post by Chris on Nov 11, 2008 22:17:51 GMT -5
Tim Lincecum may have actually excelled under much harsher conditions that Webb, but....
YEARS AND YEARS from now, when some looks at an almanac and sees that an 18 win pitcher beat out a 22 win pitcher, they're gonna say WHAT THE FUCK?
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Post by nobeernofun on Nov 12, 2008 0:10:18 GMT -5
Now the hard picks the M.V.P.'s.I have to go with Pujols over Howard. Even with Howard having more Homers & R.B.I's then Pujols. I can not see a guy with all those strike outs & Low B.A. getting the M.V.P. the Phill's made the play offs, but that has more to do with the Met's spitting the Bit once again then it was Howard's doing. If that was the case you'd have to give it to Manny for getting the F'ing Dodgers in to the play offs. With the A.L. MVP I have to go with.... Pedroia. This is a tuff call If Texas Made the playoffs I'd go with Hamilton, But Pedroia did lead the Sox's to the playoffs. No one really stands out in the A.L. as a clear cut Winner.
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