MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 9:30:45 GMT -5
Nothing to bitch about. The only one who has a claim other than Greinke is Felix Hernandez, who pitched more than 1/3 of a season against playoff teams (10 starts). CC pitches in the AL East--very tough to match the ERAs of those other guys, but clearly, one of those two deserves it, and it should be Greinke in walk.
As for Mauer, the guy was the best player on an 87 win team in a shit division. He only played in 138 games. So he missed 24 games. He didn't even have 100 RBI. Tex had more HRs, RBI, doubles, runs scored, and no single glove in baseball was more valuable to his team's than Tex's. Tex also played in 156 games.
But yeah, Mauer will get the MVP because of the anti-Yankee bias that is all over the media.
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Post by jwmcc on Nov 17, 2009 9:56:56 GMT -5
1. Joe Mauer won the batting title, as a catcher
2. Mauer hit .354 and had a .471 obp during the final six weeks of the season when they had to have every game, and didn't have Justin Morneau batting behind him.
3. Texeira wasn't even the MVP of his team this season(Hi A-Rod!)
4. Joe Mauer will take the MVP easily, and rightly so.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 10:12:02 GMT -5
Yes, he won the batting title--very good. He still wasn't as good as Tex overall with the bat.
So what you're saying is that his numbers declined in the final 6 weeks of the season when they needed him most.
Texeira was absolutely the MVP of the Yankees, (hope ARod enjoyed the first 6 weeks rehabbing).
The MVP is not a 6 week sampling of a season. It's the full season. The addition of Texeira was a HUGE reason the Yankees won 14 more games this season than in 2008, and why there were fewer errors in the middle infield this year. Not to mention all the doubles and hits he saved with that glove. That doesn't even include the offense, which matches or beats Mauer in most categories.
Joe Mauer may take the MVP easily, but that's not rightly so, and it's only because he's not a Yankee.
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Post by jwmcc on Nov 17, 2009 10:22:58 GMT -5
"(hope ARod enjoyed the first 6 weeks rehabbing). "...well I know Teixeria didn't considering his numbers were absolute shit during that time.
"That doesn't even include the offense, which matches or beats Mauer in most categories."
TEX: 609 AB 103 R 178 H 43 2b 3 3b 39 HR 122 RBI 81 BB 114 K's .292 BA .565 SLG .383 OBP 54.0 VORP
Mauer 523 AB 94 R 191 H 30 2b 1 3b 28 HR 96 RBI 76 BB 63 K's .365 BA .587 SLG .444 OBP VORP 91.0(2nd in MLB)
So Texeira had about 90 more plate appearances and had a dozen more doubles and 11 more HR's to show for it, and Mauer still ended up with a better slugging percentage.
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Post by heartybooooo on Nov 17, 2009 10:27:05 GMT -5
Mauer was clearly the MVP of the AL. The Twins were in the race until the end. Mauer led the league in batting, on base percentage, slugging percentage and obviously OPS. The counting stats like runs and RBI are poor indicators of ability or impact. Not denigrating Tex as he had an outstanding season, but John is right on all his points. Plus, Mauer is viewed as among the best defensive catchers which is of course is a more important (probably most important) defensive position.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 10:29:37 GMT -5
So you're punishing Tex for playing more? Mauer missed 24 games, or about 15 percent of the season. Tex played in 156 games. So Tex had more doubles, more runs scored, more TRIPLES, more HRs, more RBI, more walks, and only a slightly lower SLG. Mauer had more singles. And Mauer's team only made the playoffs because they played in a shit division. It's no wonder they folded when the postseason hit.
Tex did more, and played more. That's more valuable.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 17, 2009 10:32:48 GMT -5
Balls, you should be ashamed of yourself. The voting for MVP will speak for itself, you know - when people who actually WATCH baseball games without just Yankees in them chime in. Thankfully we have enought baseball fans on this board showing sanity to quash your disgustingly stupid opinions on this.
Mauer is a lock, rightfully so.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 10:36:24 GMT -5
That's a load of shit--you are the epitome of anti-Yankee bias. Yes, Mauer is going to get it, but that doesn't make it right--it's not like these votes are infallible. They never have been.
The numbers prove you wrong, and had Mauer been in pinstripes, you'd be badmouthing him like you do every Yankee.
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Post by heartybooooo on Nov 17, 2009 10:39:06 GMT -5
Not sure that the numbers support you- at best it's arguable. I think you focus on the wrong numbers. Like most of the voters for these types of award- counting stats like HRs and RBI for hitters and wins for pitchers.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 10:54:04 GMT -5
Wins for pitchers is not a good stat for an award like that, because it's largely dependent on a team's offense. Greinke is a perfect example of that. He could conceivably lose out because of just having 16 wins and 8 losses. I don't know how many Cy Young winners had as many losses as Greinke this year. And there are several pitchers that won more games.
How bad does an offense have to be for a pitcher with an ERA of 2.16 to have 8 losses?
So I agree that's an unfair stat.
But for a hitter, HRs and RBI have to matter. When you hit third in a lineup, you're going to have your share of RBI chances. Tex came through. And HRs are purely individual, and also reflect on the value of a player. Combined, they tend to show a valuable player. Not always, but often.
In many cases, people constantly argue how batting average is not a very good stat. I don't agree with that at all. But when looking at the total package, there is NO WAY I'd rather have Mauer over Tex.
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Post by cactusjames on Nov 17, 2009 10:55:17 GMT -5
Balls it has nothing to so with Anti Yankee shit. When Arod was on Texas, they were last place and he was winning the MVP every other year. It's not anything Anti Yankee, it's they give the MVP to the best guy on a bad team.
Mauer deserves it, it amazes me guys the size of Utley and Mauer have the production they do. And when you add in the intangibles Mauer had having a good year, no Morneau, huge numbers in must win games, batting title, the guy was a fucking all star and then some this year. He's a beast, best catcher in baseball and one of the best all around guys in the game. The fucking guy deserves this award and others years from now. You don't have to like it, you can want it going to a Yankee, even think Tex is more deserving than him, but but you can't say it doesn't make sense, the numbers speak for themselves, his play alone speaks for itself. As much as I love Tex, I'd consider it a robbery if ANYONE but Mauer won it.
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Post by mac0822 on Nov 17, 2009 11:01:58 GMT -5
I always look at it as VALUE to their team and what the team accomplished. Without Mauer, the Twins suck shit. Without Tex (or Jeter), the Yanks still win 100 games. Case closed.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 11:04:17 GMT -5
James--no one is saying Mauer didn't have an awesome year, but Tex was better.
There are no intangibles Mauer has that Tex doesn't have. Tex was also a fucking all star and then some. Tex is also a beast--the best 1B in baseball and one of the best all around guys in the game.
Tex is just as if not more deserving. He played in a much tougher division, played in more games.
Tex's team won 103 games--14 more than the previous year.
Mauer's team won 87 games-- 1 game LESS than the previous year.
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Post by Lindsey on Nov 17, 2009 11:50:20 GMT -5
Tex might have had the better year, but that's not the point of the MVP award so it really doesn't matter.
the point of the mvp is not how many wins your team gets, it's how many LESS they would get if you weren't a player. You think the Yankees couldn't still win games without Tex? Look at the hit the twins took when morneau was down. now imagine how fucked they would have been if Mauer was gone. You don't think Arod was more 'valuable' to the Yankees this year? haha
Mauer is a CLEAR choice for MVP. and Zack for the Cy as well.
EVERYONE HATES THE YANKEES!@#!@%!$ LOLOLOLOL
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Post by Lindsey on Nov 17, 2009 12:01:00 GMT -5
AND he's a fucking catcher!! clear choice
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Post by 9 on Nov 17, 2009 12:10:06 GMT -5
I have no problem with either Greinke winning the Cy Young or Mauer winning the MVP. They are both solid choices and it's hard to argue against either. CC and Tex got their hands on the one trophy everyone wants.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 17, 2009 12:14:57 GMT -5
Nettles, stop being diplomatic. If YOU had a vote, who are YOU voting for for both AL Cy Young, and AL MVP.
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Post by Chris on Nov 17, 2009 12:27:41 GMT -5
Tex for MVP baffled me from the time those talks started. He had a nice season ... not an MVP season by any stretch. Hell, he only came alive once A-Rod was inserted back into the lineup. Love Tex, glad he's my first baseman...MVP...hell no.
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Post by Furious D on Nov 17, 2009 12:34:25 GMT -5
With Mauer in the starting lineup the Twins were 74-59 (.556 winning pct). When he wasn't starting, they were 13-17 (.433). That's pretty valuable to me.
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MSBNYY
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 13:00:11 GMT -5
When Mauer played, they were 74-64. When Mauer didn't play, they were 13-12. .536 v. .520. So the Twins weren't all that different with or without Mauer.
Of course, being out of the lineup for 25 games is also something to point out. So in Mauer's case, the team wasn't that much different. Again, the Twins won LESS games this year than in 2008. The Yankees won 14 games more.
With Tex, he played in 156 games, and his defense alone, without even factoring the bat, makes him as valuable or more than any player in the league. He not only robs hits, he saves errors and lowers pitchers' ERAs.
Tex is a slow starter, with or without ARod. Of course ARod helped him out, but he put up similar numbers without ARod in past years.
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Post by Furious D on Nov 17, 2009 13:19:09 GMT -5
When Mauer played, they were 74-64. When Mauer didn't play, they were 13-12. .536 v. .520. So the Twins weren't all that different with or without Mauer. Yes, they lost the five games where he didn't start but came in during the late innings. But if you looked at those five games, the Twins were already losing in all five by the time he was used. All five were pinch hitting appearances in the 8th or 9th inning. And in those 5 at bats, he was 3 for 5 with a homer and 3 RBI's. That's pretty valuable off the bench.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 13:24:34 GMT -5
Not that valuable if they lost all 5 games. Again, no one is saying Mauer didn't have a phenomenal year, but to say things like "it's a no brainer" is ridiculous.
Tex had a better year, is a better player, his team did better, and he had no less of an impact on his team.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 17, 2009 16:00:58 GMT -5
Not that valuable if they lost all 5 games
LOL! LMAO! LOLOL!!!
Oh, and how does Grienke getting 23 0f 25 first place votes (with CC getting, eh, ZERO) grab ya? Yankee bias?
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Post by Lindsey on Nov 17, 2009 16:18:36 GMT -5
hahahahaha this is just getting comically bad.
and yes, it IS a no-brainer.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 16:59:09 GMT -5
I know the idea of a Yankee not getting any votes for Cy Young has Tom popping a boner, but since I already said that CC was the third best pitcher in the AL, I have no problem with it.
Again, Mauer was on an 87 win team. His team played .533 ball with him, .520 ball without him.
Big whoop.
Bottom line is that award or not, Tex is the better player.
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Post by Lindsey on Nov 17, 2009 17:16:36 GMT -5
Good thing the mvp isnt given to simply the 'better player'.
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Post by 9 on Nov 17, 2009 17:34:38 GMT -5
Nettles, stop being diplomatic. If YOU had a vote, who are YOU voting for for both AL Cy Young, and AL MVP. Greinke and Mauer. I don't really get upset when Yankees don't get awards, unless they get totally screwed over, like Palmeiro getting the gold glove over Tino a few years back when Palmeiro played about seven pitches in the field.
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 18:37:12 GMT -5
Well, if quality of play didn't matter, why are there MVPs on last place teams? While the Cy Young is not at issue, anti-Yankee bias has always been out there. Mo was robbed of a Cy Young a few years back, and the Palmeiro gold glove? Geez.
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$heriff Tom
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Post by $heriff Tom on Nov 17, 2009 19:33:14 GMT -5
LOL @ "hard where"
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Post by MSBNYY on Nov 17, 2009 19:59:06 GMT -5
hard where.
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